have a butchers at this..I'm finally allowed to talk about it..woohoo

[Dave B]

I see no problem with making similar tools to someone else

Ettore invented the squeegee and now every company has their own version of the standard squeegee

Fact is if you prefer one make you will buy that

Moerman have put a lot of effort into looking for possible flaws and improvements before releaseing it

If willie erken acted or even responded in an uninsulting manner when improvements are suggested he would have the ultimate tool

We modify things to make improvements that work for us

So many people making the same mods must point out issues with the original

How many years have the scrubber pads kept falling off and he's only just addressed that issue

 

[Eric Gilliand]

re-wear and tear. agree your mods extend its life. but the reality is theyre cheap to replace. oh i know its a man thing to want everything to last forever . iv hammered wagtails day in day out and found its about a year in that the pivots point is worn but not enough to affect the use. im still using 7 yr old wagtails daily,maybe id benefit from renewing who knows
quite recently a guy on the forums was berating he had a ladder rung snap at [i think] the 4 year mark. i now have a policy of replacing my ladders at the 2 yr mark well before anything wears out. if your business cannot replace items at reasonable wear intervals then youre playing at running a business . just my thoughts on longevity of tools

So you're assuming that because I DIY I can't afford to replace or invest in kit as needed? Really? I don't think you understand what I mean. I DIY Wagtails because I find it appalling that after a month of heavy use it doesn't work properly because of tight assed cost cutting in manufacture and cobbled together bits used from other experiments to create a 'revolutionary model'. 1-2 months on a squeegee is NOT a reasonable interval. In modding and 'fixing' the issues you then let the manufacturer know how easy it would be to protect that pivot point...i.e. a $1 smooth shanked bolt that rides nicely on the plastic and doesn't act like a bloody coarse file every time you use it. The thanks is generally a pillorying letting you know in no uncertain terms that you are the only idiot that has this problem and any way there shouldn't be a problem now because he's used a bigger bolt...HUH? So lets not get too sentimental about this. It's not about personalities involved, its about a product that makes my life easier. Finally Boar, I like Wagtail so much that quite frankly if as much care and attention was given as it appears Moerman has done with the Exelerator then I'd happily pay double what Willies asking price is + plus happily hold the handkerchief to stem the blood flow from the exorbitant international freight charges. After all being a business owner you'll understand that it is tax deductible...

 

[keefo]

I can't wait for this new Moerman tool Eric, do you know if it comes complete (if so what is the complete package) or would we have to buy channel, handle etc separately. Cheers

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Dave B]

I will ask but i would assume it is like the other swivel handle that you can buy with or without channels

 

[boarcity]

iv given all this some thought as i worked today. thats something all window cleaners do-mull over things as they work. the only product i can think of thats properly belgium invented is chocolate! perhaps you know others?if so please chime in and enlighten me

i think its a blummin awful situation, whether its legal or not to copy someones inventions i feel its morally not on. Seems the only way that moerman was able to do it was by getting know-how from real life window cleaners to help them pull the rug from under the inventor .

Something i have come to realize after several months of use is when using my Moerman channel [fitted into my wagtail squeegee] oh yes it gets great results ,no detailing ,but in use the tool has no soul.this isnt imagination, its not enjoyable to actually use,whereas the wagtail squeegee as it comes from the factory ,glides so easily,a joy to use.

i intend to rid myself of anything moerman as soon as i practically can .

 

[Dave B]

What!!!!

That means in your eyes only ettore can make squeegees

Only ford can make cars

Only hoover can make vacuum cleaners

They have done what any company does which is make something which is an improvement on what is out there

If we all thought like that I'd still be playing an atari as no one could make something similar

 

[Dave B]

Plus after the way the "inventor" behaved towards a certain person for making you tube vids showing how to modify a wagtail channel to cut down detailing (same as wagga and Herman do) and him and his cronies made public personal attacks towards him AND his family the guy deserves everything he gets

 

[Adams0211]

I doubt anyone cares but apparently the saxophone was invented by a Belgian.

And so was the contraceptive pill. Looks like Boarcity is right. The Belgians just take someone else's idea and work on it themselves [emoji23]

1.) The Contraceptive Pill. Winning 38% of the Radio 1 vote is Ferdinand Peeters' (1918-1998) contraceptive pill. To be fair, the pill was not purely Mr Peeters' invention: he took an idea that had been partially developed in the US and improved on it. The first birth control pill in 1957 was far too heavy in terms of dosage, to the point that women were complaining about serious side effects. Mr Peeters, a gynaecologist, therefore worked tirelessly towards an improved version of the pill with correct hormone doses.

Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[albootyerbaws]

what is it about the Wagtail that so many others seem to dumb it down or want to change it so, debatable improvements aplenty and now produce a range of copycat products [i see moerman has a flipper style squeegee out too] . i dont see this happening with the other brands of squeegee. could be the likes of big players unger or ettore would bust your ass in the court room
my own window cleaning biz success has a lot to be grateful to willie erkens invention.in recent years iv wanted to meet the man in person each time hes been in England only for whatever reason iv not been able to make the events . just to shake his hand and to say "boy has your squeegee helped me a lot buddy"

all they are doing is making small changes to the wagtail. basically ripping it off.

 

[Clisty1989]

@daveyboy any news on the changes between the orignal liquidator and the 2.0 channels? also I have seen the pad clips are designed to fit the 2.0 channels but do you know if it'll fit the old ones? Either way will probs get one when they come out, I was gonna buy a combinator tomorrow but I think I'll hold off. Also according to wcr they seen to think it'll be out in july

 

[Posh]

I don't give a monkeys as long as it works ok

:thumbs:::::

 

[Dave B]

@Clisty1989 the channels are all the same except for the ones with the new clips

Same channels but the clips actually clip on

@Pickingpaul is the best one to answer as he has some already so will know how they clip on

I haven't got any just yet

As soon as i do i will see what needs doing to fit them to the older channels

 

[Clisty1989]

@Clisty1989 the channels are all the same except for the ones with the new clipsSame channels but the clips actually clip on

@Pickingpaul is the best one to answer as he has some already so will know how they clip on

I haven't got any just yet

As soon as i do i will see what needs doing to fit them to the older channels

Cheers, just don't fancy having to get new channels, as i just bought a couple of more!

 

[Dave B]

Either mod to fit new clips or just stick your current channels in it

 

[SkulBlaker]

I'll be getting myself one of these, been practicing with the wagtail but don't like it at all and don't want to start modding my liquidators.

 

[Dave B]

Bob has showed me it works perfectly on a pole without an angle adapter even at height due to the different angles it can be set at

 

[captainzoom]

I've been through PC vs MAC wars & Nikon vs Canon but never thought I'd see the day of the squeegee wars.... LoL

I'm a curious and more of a practical kind of guy. So I'll get the tool best suited for the job. But then again that might be a very personal thing and we all have different preferences.

I'll definitely give the Excellerator a try. Was just going to try modding my wagtail and fit it with a Liquidator channel. But will leave it "stock" for now. Great to hear news about improved clips as well.

Have to give cred to Moerman for listening to working pros and make improvements to their products. This is the normal cycle of "evolution" with products in most other areas. (For instance computers/cameras.)

Haven't tried the Exellerator, obviously. But if it scores on the suggested improvements of the wagtail that Eric Gilliand suggested, then it will probably be a good addition to the rest of my tools.

Can't say I've been following the disscussion about wagtail but from what I've read, there have been made suggestions to improve the wagtail. A bit surprised that "wagtail" haven't picked up some of the suggested improvements.

 

[Eric Gilliand]

I can't wait for this new Moerman tool Eric, do you know if it comes complete (if so what is the complete package) or would we have to buy channel, handle etc separately. Cheers
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

I have no knowledge about the finished version of the tool at all Keefo (apart from what we are all seeing on the groups) but as they are releasing v2 clips I'll probably get a couple of channels and pad/clips as well. Apparently the clips are going to be available for purchase so will stock up on them a well.

 

[Dave B]

I only know what i have seen on several videos over the last few weeks or so and what i have been told

Still can't wait to get my hands on one to tell you guys what it's truthfully like

 

[Eric Gilliand]

all they are doing is making small changes to the wagtail. basically ripping it off.

Small but critical changes that the manufacturer for years had refused to contemplate. Believe me if patent protection hadn't been in place with the "baseball bat" of of litigation and intimidation this or something similar would have be available from another manufacturer years ago. The crazy thing is there is nothing here that, if Wagtail had been a little less solipsistic and listened to the criticisms (many of which are well founded), couldn't have been implemented years ago. A rip off is when a company or individual produces something identical, albeit in another colour, another name and sells it in bulk for half the price. This has taken the original Wagtail concept, consulted with the trade and produced a handle which to all intents and purposes is a greatly improved product. Time will tell of course but it is not a "rip-off". We can't have it both ways. We bemoan the fact that the large companies never listen to us and now we bag a company for actually standing up taking note and listening to us?

 

[Eric Gilliand]

iv given all this some thought as i worked today. thats something all window cleaners do-mull over things as they work. the only product i can think of thats properly belgium invented is chocolate! perhaps you know others?if so please chime in and enlighten me

i think its a blummin awful situation, whether its legal or not to copy someones inventions i feel its morally not on. Seems the only way that moerman was able to do it was by getting know-how from real life window cleaners to help them pull the rug from under the inventor .

Something i have come to realize after several months of use is when using my Moerman channel [fitted into my wagtail squeegee] oh yes it gets great results ,no detailing ,but in use the tool has no soul.this isnt imagination, its not enjoyable to actually use,whereas the wagtail squeegee as it comes from the factory ,glides so easily,a joy to use.

i intend to rid myself of anything moerman as soon as i practically can .

As I've said in another post Boar, I'm keeping sentimentality out of it. "An awful situation" indicates that you've bought into the 'ozzie battler against the world' myth. The planet is full of products and services that are clever, and sometimes not so clever and subtle, copies of others inventions, ideas. In fact when you settle down in your lounge tonight I think you'd be hard pressed to look at anything you own and say that "buying this I have supported the original inventor". Like you, I hold Willies invention and original patent in high regard but I've been ***** slapped a few too many times and no longer have any illusions that he and his products have actually changed my life. I empathise with your feelings because I too, deep down, feel a touch sad that it has come to this. This however is tempered with a feeling of irritation because with a just a smidgeon of grace and openness to clients criticisms and suggestions there would have been no market for the Exelerator. As it stands? I have a gut feeling that sales will go ballistic. In closing, if you're choosing to divest yourself of Moerman because of "lack of soul" then that is perfectly fine and in fact is a positive move as it has now reinforced for you how good you find the unchanged, unmodded original Wagtail. All power to you and once tested there will be many others I'm sure making their own choices along similar lines. Personally, can't wait to do the testing and comparisons...