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Help with Brodex system

Thelittlefella

New member
Messages
19
Location
Liverpool
Hello. I'd appreciate some help regarding my E250RO Brodex system. I've had it 7 weeks now and have followed Brodex's instructions on how to flush it (I was told to simply turn the valve that sits on top of the membrane housing from 5 to 2 for about 20 mins once a week by one of the guys who installed it). I asked them to provide me with all the relevant info on paper or email, which they said they would but didn't - twice. Finally did email it today after a few crossed words and it seems to suggest I've been flushing the membrane wrong in general stating I should "attach the drain hose to brass fitting on the T-piece on top of the membrane housing."

I would appreciate if anyone could take a few minutes to educate me on this matter as I've lost faith in Brodex quite honestly. Apologies if my post is on the longwinded side. Thanks

 
Flushing is simply opening the waste gate valve to fully open for a few minutes and then closing it until you get the right waste to pure ratio you should have, usually around 50/50. You will just have more waste water going to the drain when you flush.

Next thing to do is to remove the sediment filter they supply in the one and only prefilter and replace it with a Fiberdyne sediment and carbon block filter. The carbon block removes chlorine from the water. Chlorine damages r/o membranes, but Brodex prefer to not include this carbon block filter as premature membrane failure will mean more membrane replacement business.

Why anyone still deals with that company is beyond me.

.

 
Flushing is simply opening the waste gate valve to fully open for a few minutes and then closing it until you get the right waste to pure ratio you should have, usually around 50/50. You will just have more waste water going to the drain when you flush.
Next thing to do is to remove the sediment filter they supply in the one and only prefilter and replace it with a Fiberdyne sediment and carbon block filter. The carbon block removes chlorine from the water. Chlorine damages r/o membranes, but Brodex prefer to not include this carbon block filter as premature membrane failure will mean more membrane replacement business.

Why anyone still deals with that company is beyond me.

.
Right. Cheers for your help. I was thinking of getting a fibredyne filter after reading about them on this site. I'm becoming more aware of Brodex and their underhanded behaviour towards their customers. This is our first venture into wfp, first system. Just unlucky to have gone with them. I won't be going with them in the future.

 
Hi its John Beattie from Brodex - Could you give me a call on 01515451388 and I will happy to help you with flushing your RO Membrane. Thanks

 
Hi its John Beattie from Brodex - Could you give me a call on 01515451388 and I will happy to help you with flushing your RO Membrane. Thanks
Why should they phone you up? As a company you had your chance. The op has already contacted your company and has expressed on this site that he was less than happy with the response he eventually got.

Why didn't you include a simple step by step manual with the unit that you supply so that YOUR customer can read and understand the process? He said he got instructions from one of the guys who fitted it but he was rightly or wrongly obviously not able to understand it.

So why not write a detailed explanation of how to do it on here as your second post.

On another forum you (John Beattie) got a number of customers who you had helped singing your praises. That was back in 2013 and a step in the right direction. That was nearly 4 years ago, but somehow, that turn around hasn't changed your customers perception of your company since then. I get the feeling that you are a 'lone voice in the (Brodex) wilderness'

Brodex as a company really need to take a leaf out of Alex Gardiner's book when it comes to customer service, or more importantly, how your customers perceive your service to be.

.

 
Why should they phone you up? As a company you had your chance. The op has already contacted your company and has expressed on this site that he was less than happy with the response he eventually got.

Why didn't you include a simple step by step manual with the unit that you supply so that YOUR customer can read and understand the process? He said he got instructions from one of the guys who fitted it but he was rightly or wrongly obviously not able to understand it.

So why not write a detailed explanation of how to do it on here as your second post.

On another forum you (John Beattie) got a number of customers who you had helped singing your praises. That was back in 2013 and a step in the right direction. That was nearly 4 years ago, but somehow, that turn around hasn't changed your customers perception of your company since then. I get the feeling that you are a 'lone voice in the (Brodex) wilderness'

Brodex as a company really need to take a leaf out of Alex Gardiner's book when it comes to customer service, or more importantly, how your customers perceive your service to be.

.
Why should they phone you up? As a company you had your chance. The op has already contacted your company and has expressed on this site that he was less than happy with the response he eventually got.

Why didn't you include a simple step by step manual with the unit that you supply so that YOUR customer can read and understand the process? He said he got instructions from one of the guys who fitted it but he was rightly or wrongly obviously not able to understand it.

So why not write a detailed explanation of how to do it on here as your second post.

On another forum you (John Beattie) got a number of customers who you had helped singing your praises. That was back in 2013 and a step in the right direction. That was nearly 4 years ago, but somehow, that turn around hasn't changed your customers perception of your company since then. I get the feeling that you are a 'lone voice in the (Brodex) wilderness'

Brodex as a company really need to take a leaf out of Alex Gardiner's book when it comes to customer service, or more importantly, how your customers perceive your service to be.

.
 
Hi I've recently bought a second hand brodex ro 500 and the online manual says to attach a hose to the ro membrane housing and flush it that way but mine doesn't have an attachment on the ro housing. Is it supposed too or am I having the same problem with wrong instructions ? thanks for your help.
 
I think the idea of the brass stop fitting on the membrane housing is a new one, so there is a possibility yours doesn't have it. On reflection it does seem a rather good idea as it means you don't have to upset the adjustment settings in your waste valve.

You have those fancy sight flow gauges. On the second gauge you will have an adjusting valve. Turning it anti-clockwise will open the valve and allow more water to the drain. This is what we do on our r/o that doesn't have these fancy sight flow gauges. We open the tap that controls the amount of water to the drain. When the waste gate valve is full open, we are flushing our membrane. When we close it again, (not fully) we are processing water. My 4040 is set to about 55% waste to 45% pure. I have just over 2 lpm of waste water to produce 2lpm of pure.

Here's the Brodex reality. Brodex fit one prefilter, and they fit a sediment filter into that. Every other suppliers fit two prefilters, a sediment and a carbon block. The carbon block removes chlorine that destroys r/o membranes. Leaving out the carbon block filter is a premature replacement revenue stream. Unfortunately, there is every possibility your membrane needs replacing due to this carbon filter emission.
If your input water is sediment free, then you can replace the sediment filter with a carbon block filter such as a Pentek Fiberdyne filter. If your water has a lot of sediment in it, then I recommend you add a second prefilter. Sediment first; carbon block second, and then membrane.

If your r/o unit has a DI vessel, then I recommend you strip it down and inspect it. You need to unscrew the vessel head and inspect the tube that goes into the head. There should be an o ring in the head that seals on the tube. If there isn't an O Ring then you need to fit one. If you don't then you will only partially use the resin in the di vessel. Please draw your own conclusions.
 
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I think the idea of the brass stop fitting on the membrane housing is a new one, so there is a possibility yours doesn't have it. On reflection it does seem a rather good idea as it means you don't have to upset the adjustment settings in your waste valve.

You have those fancy sight flow gauges. On the second gauge you will have an adjusting valve. Turning it anti-clockwise will open the valve and allow more water to the drain. This is what we do on our r/o that doesn't have these fancy sight flow gauges. We open the tap that controls the amount of water to the drain. When the waste gate valve is full open, we are flushing our membrane. When we close it again, (not fully) we are processing water. My 4040 is set to about 55% waste to 45% pure. I have just over 2 lpm of waste water to produce 2lpm of pure.

Here's the Brodex reality. Brodex fit one prefilter, and they fit a sediment filter into that. Every other suppliers fit two prefilters, a sediment and a carbon block. The carbon block removes chlorine that destroys r/o membranes. Leaving out the carbon block filter is a premature replacement revenue stream. Unfortunately, there is every possibility your membrane needs replacing due to this carbon filter emission.
If your input water is sediment free, then you can replace the sediment filter with a carbon block filter such as a Pentek Fiberdyne filter. If your water has a lot of sediment in it, then I recommend you add a second prefilter. Sediment first; carbon block second, and then membrane.

If your r/o unit has a DI vessel, then I recommend you strip it down and inspect it. You need to unscrew the vessel head and inspect the tube that goes into the head. There should be an o ring in the head that seals on the tube. If there isn't an O Ring then you need to fit one. If you don't then you will only partially use the resin in the di vessel. Please draw your own conclusions.
Thank so much you literally answered every question I needed to know. Mine must be the old one then.How do I find out if my water has a lot of sediment? The tds meter says 245 coming out of the tap. Thanks again
 
@noko1
We have clear prefilter housings so I can see what's happening to my sediment filter. In our case, the sediment filter starts off pure white and then starts to go brown.

We use spectrum sediment filters and Fiberdyne carbon block filters. Both available from Daqua.co.uk.

I know I bang on about this, but I have 20" prefilters and a Fiberdyne c/b filter is good for removing the chlorine in our water for 75600 litres. (A 10" is good for 1/2 of that.) This includes both waste and pure. I have a water meter on my system, so I know when my filter change is due.

I built my own 4040 system to my requirements 10 years ago. I looked at all the stuff that was not on my 450gpd r/o that I needed and included that. I have 2 pressure gauges, one each side of my prefilters. On the first pressure gauge, I read my current water pressure and on the second, the pressure of the water leaving my prefilters. When the sediment filter gets blocked up, there is a pressure difference. If my current water pressure is 55psi and the other gauge shows 50psi, then I know the sediment filter is becoming blocked. If that gauge drops further to 45psi, then I change the sediment filter. If the Fiberdyne filter is just about due for change, then I do that at the same time.
There have been times when I changed the sediment filter twice before the c/b filter's service life is done. Once I changed both filters and found the sediment filter totally blocked the following day. Sediment filters are cheap (albeit a pain) to replace, but it's much cheaper replacing a sediment filter than a c/b filter. Our water quality has improved over the past couple of years, though.

I also invested in an inline tds meter. The first sensor is on the pure before di and the second is after di. Our water's tds is around 125 to 140ppm. So I expect the tds of my pure before di to be 3ppm. If it's 4 then I will have a go at tweaking my waste valve. If that doesn't improve my output then I will get my TDS meter out and check the tap water at the kitchen sink.

My HF5 membrane is performing at an efficiency of 97% after 10 years. At 245ppm your pure should be around 7ppm or lower. If it's 15ppm, then your membrane is performing at 94% efficiency. At 15ppm you may need to start to consider a new quality membrane (not a Chinese made one.)
 
@noko1
We have clear prefilter housings so I can see what's happening to my sediment filter. In our case, the sediment filter starts off pure white and then starts to go brown.

We use spectrum sediment filters and Fiberdyne carbon block filters. Both available from Daqua.co.uk.

I know I bang on about this, but I have 20" prefilters and a Fiberdyne c/b filter is good for removing the chlorine in our water for 75600 litres. (A 10" is good for 1/2 of that.) This includes both waste and pure. I have a water meter on my system, so I know when my filter change is due.

I built my own 4040 system to my requirements 10 years ago. I looked at all the stuff that was not on my 450gpd r/o that I needed and included that. I have 2 pressure gauges, one each side of my prefilters. On the first pressure gauge, I read my current water pressure and on the second, the pressure of the water leaving my prefilters. When the sediment filter gets blocked up, there is a pressure difference. If my current water pressure is 55psi and the other gauge shows 50psi, then I know the sediment filter is becoming blocked. If that gauge drops further to 45psi, then I change the sediment filter. If the Fiberdyne filter is just about due for change, then I do that at the same time.
There have been times when I changed the sediment filter twice before the c/b filter's service life is done. Once I changed both filters and found the sediment filter totally blocked the following day. Sediment filters are cheap (albeit a pain) to replace, but it's much cheaper replacing a sediment filter than a c/b filter. Our water quality has improved over the past couple of years, though.

I also invested in an inline tds meter. The first sensor is on the pure before di and the second is after di. Our water's tds is around 125 to 140ppm. So I expect the tds of my pure before di to be 3ppm. If it's 4 then I will have a go at tweaking my waste valve. If that doesn't improve my output then I will get my TDS meter out and check the tap water at the kitchen sink.

My HF5 membrane is performing at an efficiency of 97% after 10 years. At 245ppm your pure should be around 7ppm or lower. If it's 15ppm, then your membrane is performing at 94% efficiency. At 15ppm you may need to start to consider a new quality membrane (not a Chinese made one.)
Wow thats a lot of information and i clearly need to do my homework. I'm not sure what my pressure is coming from the tap but i figured out how to test the water coming from the membrane and heading into the resin jug and it's at 35 tds. I take it that's well to high. Would a booster pump help or do I need a better membrane. Mine is a low pressure one.
I'm looking into the inliine tds now and It would really help me thanks for suggesting it.
 
Wow thats a lot of information and i clearly need to do my homework. I'm not sure what my pressure is coming from the tap but i figured out how to test the water coming from the membrane and heading into the resin jug and it's at 35 tds. I take it that's well to high. Would a booster pump help or do I need a better membrane. Mine is a low pressure one.
I'm looking into the inliine tds now and It would really help me thanks for suggesting it.
Wow thats a lot of information and i clearly need to do my homework. I'm not sure what my pressure is coming from the tap but i figured out how to test the water coming from the membrane and heading into the resin jug and it's at 35 tds. I take it that's well to high. Would a booster pump help or do I need a better membrane. Mine is a low pressure one.
I'm looking into the inliine tds now and It would really help me thanks for suggesting it.
Before you test the pure coming from your membrane, you need to let the r/o settle down. It needs to run for around 5 minutes to get rid of TDs creep. If your test your pure right away, it will be high.

It's important to know what you water pressure and flow per minute in liters is.
Screwfix sell a gauge with a tap fitting for this. Then you need to find out how many liters of water passes out of your tap a minute. Our water pressure is 55psi atm. When I tested it 10 years ago or was 50 psi and 13lpm.
I don't have a booster pump.

Unfortunately, the way Brodex operate regarding non supply of a carbon block filter, I would be very surprised if you don't have a failed membrane. Sorry.
 
Before you test the pure coming from your membrane, you need to let the r/o settle down. It needs to run for around 5 minutes to get rid of TDs creep. If your test your pure right away, it will be high.

It's important to know what you water pressure and flow per minute in liters is.
Screwfix sell a gauge with a tap fitting for this. Then you need to find out how many liters of water passes out of your tap a minute. Our water pressure is 55psi atm. When I tested it 10 years ago or was 50 psi and 13lpm.
I don't have a booster pump.

Unfortunately, the way Brodex operate regarding non supply of a carbon block filter, I would be very surprised if you don't have a failed membrane. Sorry.
I'll look into the gauge from screwfix thanks for the suggestion. I had been filling the tank for about an hour when I clicked how to test it so its probably the membrane of which I only changed a few weeks back so it's very disappointing to say the least, specially how pricey they are. I think I'm gonna get it down with the resin for time being until after Xmas. I don't suppose you can point me to the best place to buy the membranes from and what ones are best by any chance. Also I would love to know your thoughts on electric reels if your not too busy. Thanks.
 
I'll look into the gauge from screwfix thanks for the suggestion. I had been filling the tank for about an hour when I clicked how to test it so its probably the membrane of which I only changed a few weeks back so it's very disappointing to say the least, specially how pricey they are. I think I'm gonna get it down with the resin for time being until after Xmas. I don't suppose you can point me to the best place to buy the membranes from and what ones are best by any chance. Also I would love to know your thoughts on electric reels if your not too busy. Thanks.
I wish I had found this forum months ago ?
 
I'll look into the gauge from screwfix thanks for the suggestion. I had been filling the tank for about an hour when I clicked how to test it so its probably the membrane of which I only changed a few weeks back so it's very disappointing to say the least, specially how pricey they are. I think I'm gonna get it down with the resin for time being until after Xmas. I don't suppose you can point me to the best place to buy the membranes from and what ones are best by any chance. Also I would love to know your thoughts on electric reels if your not too busy. Thanks.
@doug atkinson at daqua is very reasonable on stuff and only sells quality products none of this cheap Chinese stuff sold by less scrupulous companies or ebayers
 
I'll look into the gauge from screwfix thanks for the suggestion. I had been filling the tank for about an hour when I clicked how to test it so its probably the membrane of which I only changed a few weeks back so it's very disappointing to say the least, specially how pricey they are. I think I'm gonna get it down with the resin for time being until after Xmas. I don't suppose you can point me to the best place to buy the membranes from and what ones are best by any chance. Also I would love to know your thoughts on electric reels if your not too busy. Thanks.
I don't have an electric house reel so can't offer any advice. Sorry.
But @Pjj is the expert.

Once you have a fixed reel in the back of your van, you have 2 main hose options. You either have to work with your van doors open or you have to have guide rollers through the floor so you can lock your doors up.

Some are apparently able to close their rear doors on the hose, but I can't do that with an electric cable on my van so a hose is out of the question.
 
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Wow thats a lot of information and i clearly need to do my homework. I'm not sure what my pressure is coming from the tap but i figured out how to test the water coming from the membrane and heading into the resin jug and it's at 35 tds. I take it that's well to high. Would a booster pump help or do I need a better membrane. Mine is a low pressure one.
I'm looking into the inliine tds now and It would really help me thanks for suggesting it.
The only true low pressure membrane is an Axeon HF5 which will still gives good quality product water at 50psi.

Some other suppliers rate their membranes as ultra low pressure, when the specs say that best operating pressure is 125psi. Desalination r/o's that are available for blue water yachts use water pressures of around 600 psi, so I guess 125psi is low pressure. The Chinese also have no issue copying the specs of other suppliers membranes word for word and applying that copied spec to their own product.

During water production you need to have a certain amount of water going to waste as that's what flushes away the dissolved solids removed by the membrane. My waste water is fractionally more than my product water. It's important to find the sweet spot of your r/o which is the perfect ratio between waste and pure.
 
I am going to be totally honest the current price in the UK for the Axeon HF5 now hitting £400 + is becoming not value for money.

It is starting to be a bit political dare I say which is killing selling the priduct.

There are other major issues but not for this post.
 
I am going to be totally honest the current price in the UK for the Axeon HF5 now hitting £400 + is becoming not value for money.

It is starting to be a bit political dare I say which is killing selling the priduct.

There are other major issues but not for this post.
The trouble is, Doug, that it's the only membrane that will work efficiently at 50 psi.

Many years ago, PF advised me that the HF4 will work just as well at 50 psi. If it did, then why not just manufacture and sell an HF4.

Many of us don't want the noise of a booster pump. My neighbours know I process water and are our customers, but are unaware of the waste portion of the process. I also don't want to draw attention to this with the noise of a booster pump.

So what 4040 membrane do you recommend for 50 psi water pressure without a booster pump?

My HF5 is 10 years old. Would a booster pump and cheaper membrane have lasted as long with a higher initial purchase cost?

I obviously don't know what you mean with it being a bit political, but I would imagine it is something to do with the supplier insisting on bulk purchases, like happened with Shurflo pumps (if my memory serves me). My wife does buying for a small business and has had their long-standing account cancelled by a couple of suppliers because the quantities they order don't meet new increased purchasing volume requirements their suppliers have introduced.
Then of course there could be the old higher discount structure for bulk orders, which makes a small seller uncompetitive in price.
 
I don't have an electric house reel so can't offer any advice. Sorry.
But @Pjj is the expert.

Once you have a fixed reel in the back of your van, you have 2 main hose options. You either have to work with your van doors open or you have to have guide rollers through the floor so you can lock your doors up.

Some are apparently able to close their rear doors on the hose, but I can't do that with an electric cable on my van so a hose is out of the question.
Lol wouldn’t say ime an expert on anything let alone electric reels , but I have had most brands , the only two I would recommend is pure freedom and water works both work well, pure freedom are over engineered and big and heavy but very robust , waterworks 3D are mainly plastic but we have had them since launch and they are good reels , any questions just ask .
 
The trouble is, Doug, that it's the only membrane that will work efficiently at 50 psi.

Many years ago, PF advised me that the HF4 will work just as well at 50 psi. If it did, then why not just manufacture and sell an HF4.

Many of us don't want the noise of a booster pump. My neighbours know I process water and are our customers, but are unaware of the waste portion of the process. I also don't want to draw attention to this with the noise of a booster pump.

So what 4040 membrane do you recommend for 50 psi water pressure without a booster pump?

My HF5 is 10 years old. Would a booster pump and cheaper membrane have lasted as long with a higher initial purchase cost?

I obviously don't know what you mean with it being a bit political, but I would imagine it is something to do with the supplier insisting on bulk purchases, like happened with Shurflo pumps (if my memory serves me). My wife does buying for a small business and has had their long-standing account cancelled by a couple of suppliers because the quantities they order don't meet new increased purchasing volume requirements their suppliers have introduced.
Then of course there could be the old higher discount structure for bulk orders, which makes a small seller uncompetitive in price.
HF5 is still the best on the market for low pressure however the window cleaning market is not about quality but price.

I had a hose sales rep come to see me and he agreed the hose we sold was quality. Interestingly he mentioned the window cleaning market isn’t about quality bit price. When asked what percentage rejects they would have he advised 0 is the aim and was surprised they have around 20% rejection rate. Even with good quality they don’t want to sell it as the price is too high for them.

Sadly it’s the same with membranes now with low quality membranes as low prices.

The major I have with a certain supplier is likes of us and other suppliers build RO systems and put them out there. You then have the drop ship companies working from home not registered as business selling these membranes for next to nothing. There is no money in it now building systems. Good prices for window cleaners but when you have overheads and business rates you cannot compete with someone who is running their business at home. Why build systems for them to destroy the market. Just my thoughts.
 
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