Employing people advice.

[MrBump]

So you can still hire a subbie, you just need to have el, but you don't need to take them on full time right?

 

[MrBump]

Ok diwrnch I just remembered my mates were employed as self-employed through their own limited company, think thats what makes it so that the buck would stop with them and the tax man can't come after you. If your their sole employer and they are must self-employed with no limited company I think theres a catch though. If you can persuade someone to set up a limited company, call themselves joebloggslabourhire limited or whatever and pay themselves that way it would work, they would need to sort out their own taxes etc, probably worth getting an accountant for that though.

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Mr B, Simply is only discussing the insurance pitfalls, not being rude mate but nothing to do with tax or NI.

I will try to break it down here so it is clear (without being condescending to anyone)

Simplys example is as follows: If you pay someone to do some work for you and you provide the tools and equipment and you are responsible for replacing said person should they not turn up then that is a Labor Only sub and you are responsible for ensuring that you have 'Employees liability' for that person to cover them when they screw up and injure themselves and attempt to sue you for it.

If Diwrnach calls me AKA 'Green Window Cleaner' and hires me to go and do...let's say a care home external window clean, then I will turn up in my van, I will be using all my own equipment and will also have my own Liability Insurance so all that will happen is Diwrnach and I agree a price, I turn up and do the job, invoice Diwrnach and he pays.... that's the end of it on the insurance front.

When I was employing I hired an accountant whom once a year would do all my books and submit them for end of year and it cost me £150 per year, they also provided me with a monthly payroll service for £30 per month - I would email them how many hours each lad had done and their hourly rate and they would send me out a payslip for each lad with all the tax and NI laid out as well as their monthly pay totals. They would also send me out the slips every couple of months with the totals due for NI and tax that the wife would take to the bank and pay, quite simple really.

A few people have said wow..... you must be minted paying out for accountants and payroll etc but at the end of the day £510 per year to ensure all my papers are in order and I haven't crossed Her Majesty is but a dash in the pond, and a hell of a lot less of a hangover than trying to do it myself.

All accountants around here offer a free 30 minute consultation for small businesses to see how / if they can help you so my advice in full Diwrnach is get pen and paper, write a long list of all your questions (ask Mrs D for the ones you didn't think of) and go see a local accountant for a consultation.. Also for around a couple of hundred you can have a lawyer draft a employment contract that serves both the legal requirements and yours.

It may seem like a lot of out lay but it's cheaper than HMRC deciding you're in the $hite.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[MrBump]

Sounds like simplybusiness said that you can subbie labour-only work you just need employers liability insurance. So you could get that and tell them their self-employed and let then worry anf tax and all that jazz. You'd need insurance if hiring anyway I'm guessing so nothing lost

It boils down to this when you look into it....
If they don't turn up to do the job who is responsible? if its you then you are the employer, if its their problem to sort it out they are self employed/subbie.

Green I was talking about insurance and said thats what simplybusiness said and I said tax and vat etc was seperate and could be dealt with by the self employed person. I understand 100% what simply was saying about whether you are liable for insurance or not. My point was whether you hire someone full time or as a subbie you'd need insurance anyway so nothing lost and if a subbie then they can worry about their own taxes. Then Diwrnach reiterated simplys point, who I actually thought was confusing hiring someone and subbing them, just because you are deemed as their employer for insurance purposes doesn't mean you are for taxes, but getting them to set up their own limited company is the safest bet. But at no point was i actually confused between the two, I was just trying in a round about way to get simply to not think I was actually confused and to agree with me /emoticons/wink.png I vaguely understand how it all works, I know several people who have been doing these things for years, although one of the people I was thinking of I forgot he started a limited company tax reasons. Not once did I actually say insurance and tax/vat were the same thing or even on the same page, i was just taken the wrong way and if I did somewhere I've missed it was a typo from the remnants of an alcohol fuelled weekend :thumbsup:

All very good info though, I'm sure it will come in useful to many.