Reinforcing van suspension etc

[Cleanz]

I've managed to borrow the money for a new van (Vauxhall Combo 1.3 Cdti), after my Renault Kangoo cambelt went (even though I had it replace months ago).

Anyway, for now I'm going to be carting around 14 25l barrels (350l), 2x backpacks on trolleys, poles etc - think the payload is around 650kg, so will be under but was wondering do I need to re-inforce the suspension or anything else? I've seen quite a few people on here mention it....

Also what about fibre glassing the back?

Thanks

 

[Tuffers]

I used to carry lots of barrels when I had no tank. I lashed them all up against the bulkhead.

 

[spruce]

If the payload is 650kgs and you are carrying less weight than that, you don't have to worry as the van is designed to carry that weight.

At one time a business wanted their 600LX Berlingo's uprated to 800's. They bought the 600 against advice as they were cheaper, later realised the error of the ways and tried to rectify things.

They eventually traded the newly new vans in and bought 800 as that was the cheapest option.

Replacing the front and rear suspension, 5 tyres and a couple of other minor things (chassis plate change was one) wasn't worth the cost. (If I remember correctly the 'easiest' way paperwise was to re register the van with a new chassis number but this wasn't practical with regard to the van. For example, an altered chassis number would draw suspicion when MOT was done and with potential new buyers.) The work of uprating the van had to be done by a specialist; in those days it was the workshop of a franchise manufacturer (Citroen dealership), and they would issue a certificate for the work done. This would be presented to the DVLA who would re register the van with a higher payload.

If this procedure wasn't followed to the letter, then you could still be prosecuted for an overloaded van because DVLA would still know it as a 600 kg payload. Overweight can mean points on your licence.

Spare part ordering can also become a nightmare as most dealers use the reg no to identify the exact part you need. So if the records aren't correctly updated, then the chances are you will get parts for the 600 rather than the 800.

Some have used fibreglass, but this also needs a top coat to be effective. We used Protectakote for all the vans which has been fine and is slip proof, an essential if you get into a van with wet shoes. The only issue is 'damage' caused by loading and off loading the hose reel. In that area we have put down some rubber matting to protect that.

Car derived vans (those vans that are also people carriers) have a plate spot welded across the rear passenger footwells on the floor pan to make the cargo load area flat. Fibreglassing the floor is a good way of sealing that and also making a 'dam' behind the rear seats and sides to contain any spills.

 

[Luke Elliott]

As Spruce says. If you're under the payload (don't forget fuel, driver and passenger are included as part of that payload) then you have nothing to worry about. Also you're thinking about suspension and tyres but don't forget brakes may need uprating too. If you're over the payload - get a new van or lose some of the load. I have a Mitisubishi L200 with a 1 tonne payload. It's also highly modifified as it's not only used for work. I can tell you that modifying vehicles to that level is not cheap and not simple when it comes to paper work. Stay under the payload.

I would consider a bed liner like Line X or Raptor liner for the back of a van. These spray on liners are designed for pick up truck beds where builders and trades men will be throwing rubble, bricks, tools etc etc you name it into the back. So it's tough. Really tough. It won't break or tear where the hose real keeps getting dropped and slid onto it. And it's completely water proof. You just need to make sure that corners are siliconed so that the liner sprays over that, because the liner won't bridge a gap. I had protectacote and compared to a bed liner it's awful.

 

[Cleanz]

I used to carry lots of barrels when I had no tank. I lashed them all up against the bulkhead.

I have to spread mine out across the entire back of the van as my bulkhead is like a moulded plastic thing that is just one piece, top to bottom.

If the payload is 650kgs and you are carrying less weight than that, you don't have to worry as the van is designed to carry that weight.
At one time a business wanted their 600LX Berlingo's uprated to 800's. They bought the 600 against advice as they were cheaper, later realised the error of the ways and tried to rectify things.

They eventually traded the newly new vans in and bought 800 as that was the cheapest option.

Replacing the front and rear suspension, 5 tyres and a couple of other minor things (chassis plate change was one) wasn't worth the cost. (If I remember correctly the 'easiest' way paperwise was to re register the van with a new chassis number but this wasn't practical with regard to the van. For example, an altered chassis number would draw suspicion when MOT was done and with potential new buyers.) The work of uprating the van had to be done by a specialist; in those days it was the workshop of a franchise manufacturer (Citroen dealership), and they would issue a certificate for the work done. This would be presented to the DVLA who would re register the van with a higher payload.

If this procedure wasn't followed to the letter, then you could still be prosecuted for an overloaded van because DVLA would still know it as a 600 kg payload. Overweight can mean points on your licence.

Spare part ordering can also become a nightmare as most dealers use the reg no to identify the exact part you need. So if the records aren't correctly updated, then the chances are you will get parts for the 600 rather than the 800.

Some have used fibreglass, but this also needs a top coat to be effective. We used Protectakote for all the vans which has been fine and is slip proof, an essential if you get into a van with wet shoes. The only issue is 'damage' caused by loading and off loading the hose reel. In that area we have put down some rubber matting to protect that.

Car derived vans (those vans that are also people carriers) have a plate spot welded across the rear passenger footwells on the floor pan to make the cargo load area flat. Fibreglassing the floor is a good way of sealing that and also making a 'dam' behind the rear seats and sides to contain any spills.

Spruce, thanks for the informative post as always, great information - I think I might just use the Protectakote /emoticons/smile.png

 

[Cleanz]

As Spruce says. If you're under the payload (don't forget fuel, driver and passenger are included as part of that payload) then you have nothing to worry about. Also you're thinking about suspension and tyres but don't forget brakes may need uprating too. If you're over the payload - get a new van or lose some of the load. I have a Mitisubishi L200 with a 1 tonne payload. It's also highly modifified as it's not only used for work. I can tell you that modifying vehicles to that level is not cheap and not simple when it comes to paper work. Stay under the payload.
I would consider a bed liner like Line X or Raptor liner for the back of a van. These spray on liners are designed for pick up truck beds where builders and trades men will be throwing rubble, bricks, tools etc etc you name it into the back. So it's tough. Really tough. It won't break or tear where the hose real keeps getting dropped and slid onto it. And it's completely water proof. You just need to make sure that corners are siliconed so that the liner sprays over that, because the liner won't bridge a gap. I had protectacote and compared to a bed liner it's awful.

Ahhh just read this mate, I will look into that as an alternative then... With regards to hose reel - we dont have one! We are just barrels, backpacks on trolleys and two poles /emoticons/smile.png

With regard to the brakes I can feel a difference, they don't respond as well. I will get myself down the local garage to see how much it is to upgrade them asap.

 

[Luke Elliott]

Ah sorry I made not have made myself clear. Brakes is the same as suspension - if you're under the payload you don't need to upgrade the brakes. If it's a brand new van the brakes will be just fine. If it's a second hand van maybe the brakes could do with a service. Purely because we do carry a lot of weight and it's always best if they are tip top. But upgrades, no. I was just saying they should be upgraded if you're going over the payload.

 

[Cleanz]

It is second hand, (`08 56,000) but the van company were meant to have given it a full service, done the brakes but I don't think they did personally. That's good to know then, no expensive upgrades yet. Planning on keeping this for a couple of years and then getting something bigger which will definatly have a tank in it /emoticons/smile.png

 

[boarcity]

you could put beefier spring on the back ,a simple upgrade . but dont tell your insurance or they will fleece you if you modify a vehicle .

 

[Cleanz]

Well if it's simple could be an option, I wouldn't attempt anything myself - I know next to nothing about cars/vans. (Which is normally why I get fleeced by garages!)

 

[boarcity]

be no more than an hour to swap the springs for a beefier pair and nobody would ever know cos they all look the same. i know the erly combo would take a Cavalier spring which was the hardest standard sized spring but i dunno about the later ones

 

[Luke Elliott]

I've got to say, that's a risky strategy. The van will still officially be classed for a lighter payload. If you get pulled, trying to tell the cop that you swapped springs won't fly. Then you try to hide it from your insurance company after that! If you don't tell the cop you've upgraded the springs then you're still being done for being over weight. In either scanario your insurance is invalid. And this still doesn't cover the load bearing capacity of the tyres or brakes good enough to stop a heavier load within legal perimeters. Some higher payload vehicles even have chassis modifications!

Sorry. I'm not trying to play high and mighty. But messing about with payload limits is a mine field not worth bothering with. And this doesn't even consider what happens if you did end up in an accident. You could be sued for driving without due care and attention. Heck if someone dies you could even be charged with man slaughter.

In the 4x4 world there is a well known story of a chap with a highly modified Land Rover. It even had a valid MOT. So to the casual onlooker it was a legal car. Roadworthy. But a lot of the modifications had been done with home made components. Untested components. Other mods had been done with parts bought from retailers which although legal here are banned in the states and Oz. All the MOT does is check basic perimeters. It's not a crash test. Anyway this guy crashed. A ball joint spacer was found to be the cause. It had cracked, failed and sheered. This caused the left side of his front suspension to calapse. The guy was found guilty of having an unroadworthy vehicle and was charged with man slaughter. Now granted this is an extreme scenario. And I know you wouldn't be modifying to that degree. But remember we carry far more weight than this 4x4 chap. The intertia of a vehicle changes dramatically as you add weight. And weight increases with speed. Payload limits are in place for a reason. The manufacture has spent thousands calculating and testing what a vehicle can safely carry and stay within the law. Mess with them at your peril. You can't just get round them by putting in a tougher set of springs.

I beg and plead with you. Please stay under the limit.

 

[spruce]

I second every word of what Luke says.

In my case I have uprated rear springs on my Citroen Relay. It has nothing to do with payload as the van still legally only has a payload of 1145kgs.

The reason for this is that the Relay/Boxer/Ducato has a single or monoleaf spring. Last winter the rear nearside spring broke. The main agents wanted £500 a spring, plus U bolts and VAT a side plus labour. A spring manufacturer in the Midlands make and supply rear springs for motorhomes and these were 1/3rd the price of the main dealer part.

Not matter what van you have, your brakes will never stop you as quickly as they will when the van in empty. This is why I am never in a hurry to get anywhere with my van full of water. I also follow the advise of the advanced driver course to leave a bigger gap between my van and the vehicle ahead of me. This is also relevant if I have someone tailgating (driving too close to the rear of my van) me. It gives me a greater stopping distance in most cases.

On some vans there is a load sensing valve at the back attached to the rear axle and body by means of a spring. It is designed to allow a greater brake force to be exerted to the rear brakes when carrying a heavy load. These sometimes sieze up. It may go un-noticed at MOT if the brakes work fine on the rolling road test bed. It could also be a poor quality brake pad fitted to the front brakes.

 

[cheapncheerful]

ditto Luke Elliott and


spruce great advice....not worth it../emoticons/smile.png

 

[Cleanz]

I've got to say, that's a risky strategy. The van will still officially be classed for a lighter payload. If you get pulled, trying to tell the cop that you swapped springs won't fly. Then you try to hide it from your insurance company after that! If you don't tell the cop you've upgraded the springs then you're still being done for being over weight. In either scanario your insurance is invalid. And this still doesn't cover the load bearing capacity of the tyres or brakes good enough to stop a heavier load within legal perimeters. Some higher payload vehicles even have chassis modifications!
Sorry. I'm not trying to play high and mighty. But messing about with payload limits is a mine field not worth bothering with. And this doesn't even consider what happens if you did end up in an accident. You could be sued for driving without due care and attention. Heck if someone dies you could even be charged with man slaughter.

In the 4x4 world there is a well known story of a chap with a highly modified Land Rover. It even had a valid MOT. So to the casual onlooker it was a legal car. Roadworthy. But a lot of the modifications had been done with home made components. Untested components. Other mods had been done with parts bought from retailers which although legal here are banned in the states and Oz. All the MOT does is check basic perimeters. It's not a crash test. Anyway this guy crashed. A ball joint spacer was found to be the cause. It had cracked, failed and sheered. This caused the left side of his front suspension to calapse. The guy was found guilty of having an unroadworthy vehicle and was charged with man slaughter. Now granted this is an extreme scenario. And I know you wouldn't be modifying to that degree. But remember we carry far more weight than this 4x4 chap. The intertia of a vehicle changes dramatically as you add weight. And weight increases with speed. Payload limits are in place for a reason. The manufacture has spent thousands calculating and testing what a vehicle can safely carry and stay within the law. Mess with them at your peril. You can't just get round them by putting in a tougher set of springs.

I beg and plead with you. Please stay under the limit.

I think you've misread somewhere along the line (unless your post was aimed at someone else) ... I'm under payload - I have absolutely no intention of going over payload. Or messing around with payload limits - I'm trying to re-inforce what I already have to make it safer. (brakes etc).

 

[cheapncheerful]

but any alteration work is frowned upon by insurance as any excuse they can use to stop paying out and they will use it....your intentions are good but i would just go for a bigger van than i need fullstop.../emoticons/smile.png

 

[Luke Elliott]

but any alteration work is frowned upon by insurance as any excuse they can use to stop paying out and they will use it....your intentions are good but i would just go for a bigger van than i need fullstop.../emoticons/smile.png

That's very true until you get into the world of specialist modifications and are of an age where you're not seen as reckless. As mentioned my truck has a considerable number of modifications. It actually on an unlimited modifications policy. So each time I mod it I call them and tell them what's done. Then they just note it on the system and say "ok, thank you." I'm insured with a company that specialise in modifiied vehicles. As part of the policy you have to be a member of a club relating to your vehicle. I'm 33 and the premium is £450 fully comp, inclusive of work and business cover.

 

[cheapncheerful]

good idea luke elliott about time they realised that some mods are done to improve safety..../emoticons/smile.png

 

[Cleanz]

Gotcha, yep I don't need invalidated insurance!

On the subject of vehicles, who do you guys use for breakdown cover? I broke down in the middle of rush hour in my Kangoo last month.

Long story short it was pushed to the side of an embankment, abandoned until later that evening and had to be towed out (by gypsies) to my mates house - was an absolute nightmare, especially when we met this guy to tow it and realised no-one had a tow rope....

 

[cheapncheerful]

me use aa one year and rac next year ....as they only give a discount to new customers....:rofl:

 

[Cleanz]

Haha good plan /emoticons/smile.png