Running an electric van

[ched999uk]

I'll stick with my dirty diesel 

At the moment I would agree but it won't be long before electric is only real option. The gov are looking at per mile pricing to cover their cash cow that is petrol and diesel. I have seen ridiculous per mile fees quoted like 75p a mile which is mental and way way in excess of the loss of duty and vat on fuel. I guess so the shock of pay per mile wont be bad when gov say it's 'only' 30p a mile. Then they will jack up the duty on petrol and diesel to drive them off the road. 

No idea how generators will get on or how to bolt a tank in with a huge battery under the load area.... 

Not to mention the second hand market and battery life long term.

It's all going to be a mess for people who need to carry decent loads over long distance even occasionally.

I did think about an en200 while it would be fine for 90% of the time the other 10% of the time I would have to hire a car. That's not too bad till yo realise they cost almost twice as much as a diesel version. The savings aren't big enough to justify the costs let alone the restricted range and questionable battery life.

 

[Extremecleansussex]

Ive been running my van now for over five years. I’m in my second one as I had my first one written off earlier this year. 
 

in the past five years, the number of rapid charge points has increased considerably and most now also have a PAYG option so no more requirement for memberships etc. That said, I only use a rapid two or three times a year. 
 

There’s now a 40kwhr battery version available which gives a range of about 130 miles, I went with another 24kwhr because that’s all I need. 
 

it’s still the best move I ever made and has saved me at least the cost of the van over the time I’ve owned it. I’ve done over 50,000 miles without an issue and the battery range is hardly less than when I got it. 

 

[Martyn]

Our Post service runs a fleet of Nissans, I've begun to wonder if it would be worth putting in a bid for a couple when they come to sell them off. I think it would be good for the business image.

 

[AW Services]

At the moment I would agree but it won't be long before electric is only real option. The gov are looking at per mile pricing to cover their cash cow that is petrol and diesel. I have seen ridiculous per mile fees quoted like 75p a mile which is mental and way way in excess of the loss of duty and vat on fuel. I guess so the shock of pay per mile wont be bad when gov say it's 'only' 30p a mile. Then they will jack up the duty on petrol and diesel to drive them off the road. 

No idea how generators will get on or how to bolt a tank in with a huge battery under the load area.... 

Not to mention the second hand market and battery life long term.

It's all going to be a mess for people who need to carry decent loads over long distance even occasionally.

I did think about an en200 while it would be fine for 90% of the time the other 10% of the time I would have to hire a car. That's not too bad till yo realise they cost almost twice as much as a diesel version. The savings aren't big enough to justify the costs let alone the restricted range and questionable battery life.

There's about 3 charge points in Devon and I'm still waiting for 3G. The only way I can post on here is by using my Sinclair Zx81 

 

[ched999uk]

Our Post service runs a fleet of Nissans, I've begun to wonder if it would be worth putting in a bid for a couple when they come to sell them off. I think it would be good for the business image.

We have a local taxi firm who use the nissans leaf and the ev200 as people carriers. They even went to trouble of installing their own charging network in car parks to charge while the wait on jobs. They have been all electric for about 4 years I think. They have various 'green' logos on them. I think it must be working for them as they are still buying new ones.

 

[Pjj]

I don’t think technology is there yet with battery vehicles full stop , I like the idear of them but range is a major issue with them all the manufacturers over estimate the range they have , bit like the manufacturers fuel consumption figures for petrol and diesel no one in the real world gets the figures that they claim , when I bought my new van I was talking to the sales manager and he said it’s impossible to produce a 3:5 ton van battery powered to carry any weight so they are looking at increasing the 3:5 ton vans to 4:5 tons and allowing everyone to drive them without any further tests on a normal licence , time will tell but that’s what they are looking at at the moment apparently. Last time I took my Audi in for  a service it’s a diesel ??? the service manager said that audi are still spending millions developing Diesel engines , why would they be doing that if they will be stoping production in 9 years time ? He also said he had just been to the factory in Germany where they are testing the latest E tron technology and again he said that on paper the range looks poor but once you start using lights , heater, and other items the range is almost halved , what use is a car with a hundred mile range if you are lucky ? There are millions of cars parked on the streets in this country how would they all be charged ? Are you going to have charging points every ten meters down every road in the country ? I don’t think so , all this looks good on paper but how are we going to produce all the electricity needed to charge all there cars ? Burn more fossil fuels ? Nuclear power ?. There is an awful long way to go before theses vehicles become main stream and replace the combustion engine , it’s also interesting to note how ford suddenly shelved the hydrogen powered vehicle wonder why that was ?.. could it be the fact that they would be free to run and governments would get no revenue from them ?... 

 

[ched999uk]

The only way I can post on here is by using my Sinclair Zx81

That must be the 16k version as my 8k won't even connect to the net ?

 

[ched999uk]

I bought my new van I was talking to the sales manager and he said it’s impossible to produce a 3:5 ton van battery powered to carry any weight so they are looking at increasing the 3:5 ton vans to 4:5 tons and allowing everyone to drive them without any further tests on a normal licence

I think Ford have already started! I was chatting to a mate the other day and he said something along similar lines. Ford are producing 4.5ton vans that are plated at 3.5ton as there is a loop hole that allows it somehow, I think it's something about battery not counting as mass in service, can't remember exactly what he said now. It might have been the hybrid transits. He runs pressure washing company - just commercial so he was looking at new chassis cab to have new body built to his spec with his hit spec in. 

 

[Pjj]

I think Ford have already started! I was chatting to a mate the other day and he said something along similar lines. Ford are producing 4.5ton vans that are plated at 3.5ton as there is a loop hole that allows it somehow, I think it's something about battery not counting as mass in service, can't remember exactly what he said now. It might have been the hybrid transits. He runs pressure washing company - just commercial so he was looking at new chassis cab to have new body built to his spec with his hit spec in. 

At this time another problem with most commercial battery vehicles is the under floor space is the battery bank and it’s not possible to fix anything through the floor plan , Ime guessing in time this will probably change . 

 

[Davy G]

I think one way around the current problem of short battery range is eventually likely to be a standardised range of interchangeable batteries.

For instance, if batteries were to be made easily removable without the need for lifting. Instead, simply slid out on something like a miniature gurney/shelf and exchanged for a fresh one in something a bit like a petrol pump. The replacement battery would be inserted into the vehicle in the same way. The power remaining in the old battery could be measured by the dispenser and the value deducted from the price of the replacement.

The whole exchange process could be made as quick as filling with petrol or diesel. It would need a certain amount of standardisation in batteries. It's been done before in a smaller scale and is still the same with AA, triple A, D cell etc. Trip range worries would be solved as drivers would be able to top up on the road, the same as we do for liquid fuel. More difficult with HGVs but that will be sorted too in time.

For sure there's big changes coming in the near and distant future. Whatever they turn out to be.

 

[AW Services]

At this time another problem with most commercial battery vehicles is the under floor space is the battery bank and it’s not possible to fix anything through the floor plan , Ime guessing in time this will probably change . 

Water and lithium hmm there she's blows 

 

[Extremecleansussex]

The batteries and all electronics are sealed and rated to IP65, there’s no issues. 
 

WRT range, I’ve never had a problem at around 65 miles and the 40kwhr version is 120+ miles which is more than enough for a days work for me. 

 

[ched999uk]

The batteries and all electronics are sealed and rated to IP65, there’s no issues. 

Until there is an accident!! An IP rating has nothing to do with crash resistance!

Lithium and water produce hydrogen which is highly flammable.

OK so petrol is also very flammable so battery probably not more dangerous than many cars. I'm not sure how prepared the fire brigade are at routinely tackling lithium fires. We have a few brigade and ex brigade people here that will have more accurate info. Things will improve the more battery cars we get. I fully agree that it's no more dangerous than petrol but there is still a risk and a much bigger on for windys carrying the very substance that causes Lithium to produce flammable gas directly above the battery pack!!!

There is an issue, don't get too complacent thinking you are safe as it's a battery! 

 

[harunh]

Diesel n petrol over electric any day

 

[Pjj]

The batteries and all electronics are sealed and rated to IP65, there’s no issues. 
 

WRT range, I’ve never had a problem at around 65 miles and the 40kwhr version is 120+ miles which is more than enough for a days work for me. 

Yes ok when working close to home but those figures arnt that accurate if you lived where I do with all the hills you will be lucky to get half that , also no good if traveling with a car for hundreds of miles , we live in west  Cornwall just to get to Exeter is 110 miles how many times will I have to stop and charge an electric vehicle traveling at night using , lights, heater , heated screen , etc if traveling to London or the midlands ??? It’s just not practical , Ime also in the fire service and the local council were given a number of electric cars to try out I had a Nissan Leaf , it went quite well 0-60 , but range was useless with our terrain loads of hills , and when driving at night using all the afore mentioned stuff , it’s ok if traveling 10- 20 miles on a commute or going Tesco shopping but no use for anything else , don’t get me wrong I like the idear of them but the technology is still light years away from a usable practical vehicle . 

 

[Pjj]

Until there is an accident!! An IP rating has nothing to do with crash resistance!

Lithium and water produce hydrogen which is highly flammable.

OK so petrol is also very flammable so battery probably not more dangerous than many cars. I'm not sure how prepared the fire brigade are at routinely tackling lithium fires. We have a few brigade and ex brigade people here that will have more accurate info. Things will improve the more battery cars we get. I fully agree that it's no more dangerous than petrol but there is still a risk and a much bigger on for windys carrying the very substance that causes Lithium to produce flammable gas directly above the battery pack!!!

There is an issue, don't get too complacent thinking you are safe as it's a battery! 

So far we have had no specific training on how to deal with fires involving theses vehicles , just disconnect the power supply from the wiring is all I have been told ???

 

[AW Services]

So far we have had no specific training on how to deal with fires involving theses vehicles , just disconnect the power supply from the wiring is all I have been told ???

I'm guessing you have HV kit now, insulated poles, cutters gauntlets and visors as standard? 

Water and lithium hmm there she's blows 

This was a joke. I'm not 5 

 

[Iron Giant]

@ched999uk Iv'e read about this in recent weeks first it was £1.50 a mile then 75p but even at that travelling 7,400 miles per annum that's £5,000 I think the figure was, this would kill businesses of all kinds and the knock on effect on tourism when people decide not to go out for the day or take a UK holiday and so far nothing to say the pence per mile won't apply to electric motors either

 

[Extremecleansussex]

Yes ok when working close to home but those figures arnt that accurate if you lived where I do with all the hills you will be lucky to get half that , also no good if traveling with a car for hundreds of miles , we live in west  Cornwall just to get to Exeter is 110 miles how many times will I have to stop and charge an electric vehicle traveling at night using , lights, heater , heated screen , etc if traveling to London or the midlands ??? It’s just not practical , Ime also in the fire service and the local council were given a number of electric cars to try out I had a Nissan Leaf , it went quite well 0-60 , but range was useless with our terrain loads of hills , and when driving at night using all the afore mentioned stuff , it’s ok if traveling 10- 20 miles on a commute or going Tesco shopping but no use for anything else , don’t get me wrong I like the idear of them but the technology is still light years away from a usable practical vehicle . 

If you’d posted this five years ago when I started the thread, I would have agreed with you. 
However, things have moved on a lot since then and there are now quite a few electric vehicles that will get you to Exeter and back without having to charge up during the journey. The cheapest being the new MG5 which can be bought new for around £20k. 

 

[Pjj]

If you’d posted this five years ago when I started the thread, I would have agreed with you. 
However, things have moved on a lot since then and there are now quite a few electric vehicles that will get you to Exeter and back without having to charge up during the journey. The cheapest being the new MG5 which can be bought new for around £20k. 

To go to Exeter and back is 220 miles according to manufacturers figures it has a range of 214 miles combined , so in real world driving up all the hills we have doubt it would 150 miles , I have a number of customers that have electric cars several have Tesla s that cost over 100 k and the range is appalling although they are very rapid , charging points are non existent   I know of 4 in our area and 3 of theses haven’t worked for well over a year , one is in a pub car park and you have to use the pub to be able to charge the car and it costs £10 per hours charge , the other is in my local Tesco car park again you have to go shopping to use it again what’s the point putting it on charge for 15-30 muinits whilst shopping, the amount of charge is minimal in that time . Again there is only one charging point in a car park that regularly has at least 200+ cars in it in the summer there is at least double that number , Ime not against theses cars but just saying they arnt suitable for distance travel , ok if you want to just go shopping a couple of miles down the road , but traveling a few hundred miles totally impractical, therecwill need to be hundreds of millions spent on infrastructure to make this work , then how will we produce more electric to charge all there vehicles ?. It’s all Ill thought out . 

 

[Iron Giant]

To go to Exeter and back is 220 miles according to manufacturers figures it has a range of 214 miles combined , so in real world driving up all the hills we have doubt it would 150 miles , I have a number of customers that have electric cars several have Tesla s that cost over 100 k and the range is appalling although they are very rapid , charging points are non existent   I know of 4 in our area and 3 of theses haven’t worked for well over a year , one is in a pub car park and you have to use the pub to be able to charge the car and it costs £10 per hours charge , the other is in my local Tesco car park again you have to go shopping to use it again what’s the point putting it on charge for 15-30 muinits whilst shopping, the amount of charge is minimal in that time . Again there is only one charging point in a car park that regularly has at least 200+ cars in it in the summer there is at least double that number , Ime not against theses cars but just saying they arnt suitable for distance travel , ok if you want to just go shopping a couple of miles down the road , but traveling a few hundred miles totally impractical, therecwill need to be hundreds of millions spent on infrastructure to make this work , then how will we produce more electric to charge all there vehicles ?. It’s all Ill thought out . 

The answer giving by @Extremecleansussex doesn't really answer the question as we want vans not cars and no doubt when they do these calculations they are in empty motors not fully loaded 

They government want to reduce the carbon emissions across the UK, it will be really interesting to know just how much impact all this infrastructure on carbon emissions and the batteries that will be useless and stacked up somewhere like nuclear waste, I would really love to know how the hell they are going to supply all this electricity to all these thousands then millions of cars and also the millions of house that are been built ? Typical government, we have got an idea, no idea how the hell we will achieve it, if it will work or how to pay for it, but dam it sounds good, they will just let us pay for it.

As long as the the population continues to grow expoentially we are screwed anyway, they are trying to plug a gaping hole in a dam wall with a piece of Blu Tak, it ain't going to work.