Smart charger battery?

[steve garwood]

Good evening. Wonder if you know anything about smart charger batteries?

I'm on the verge of ordering a new transit. I've been informed that there are two batteries under the drivers seat that are smart batteries. Now my concern is, will my split charge relay be compromised using these.

@Damo i know you have a transit, is yours a standard 12volt, or do you have smart batteries?

Absolute pain this is, as its putting me off ordering until I get this resolved.

Thanks if anyone responds /emoticons/smile.png

 

[Damo]

All that info you have given is rubbish lol.

Basically if you buy a transit custom you will need a decent split charge relay.

ie something like this....

FULL KIT - 12v 30AMP Smart Battery to Battery Charger | GrippaTank Ltd

All our vans have that fitted and all are fine, we don't do anything other than drive the van.

its a smart alternator not a smart battery /emoticons/wink.png

 

[steve garwood]

£400!!!! My s.c.r on my current van cost £24 and has worked perfectly for years. I take it I cant just use this on the new van?

Thanks for your response @Damo

 

[Damo]

You can use a cheaper version of around £80 - £120 @spruce knows what to use.

You are basically fooling the alternator to charge a battery that it thinks is charged. Van battery vs leisure battery.

And no you cant fit it, well you can but it would be about as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

 

[steve garwood]

You can use a cheaper version of around £80 - £120 @spruce knows what to use.
You are basically fooling the alternator to charge a battery that it thinks is charged. Van battery vs leisure battery.

And no you cant fit it, well you can but it would be about as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

Thanks once again. Poxy nuisance this

 

[Damo]

In the grand scheme of things i can't be bothered with trying to cut corners.

I use Grippa tank for everything now. It's just "works" and no drama. It's safe. Etc etc.

Yes some of the stuff is over priced I agree.

Where are you based, maybe I could show you my van and errr pole /emoticons/wink.png

 

[steve garwood]

In the grand scheme of things i can't be bothered with trying to cut corners.
I use Grippa tank for everything now. It's just "works" and no drama. It's safe. Etc etc.

Yes some of the stuff is over priced I agree.

Where are you based, maybe I could show you my van and errr pole /emoticons/wink.png

I've been in contact with grippa. I'm waiting for Lisa to get back to me about some rollers.

I'm used to setting up systems myself, but you may have a point. I might just let them do it all.

If you insist on showing me your pole, best you do it by p.m

 

[Aquajetexteriorcleaning]

That's what I need

 

[spruce]

You can use a cheaper version of around £80 - £120 @spruce knows what to use.
You are basically fooling the alternator to charge a battery that it thinks is charged. Van battery vs leisure battery.

And no you cant fit it, well you can but it would be about as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

I think @Damo has answered this.

There is a good explanation on Grippa's website as to the reason why the old split charge relay's don't work.

Unfortunately, engine emissions are the responsibility of the motor manufacturers. There is no way they will reprogram the ecu to accommodate our needs, or those of motorhome users for that matter.

The batteries now used in these vans are calcium batteries @steve garwood, not intelligent ones /emoticons/biggrin.png

These new systems that use regenerative charging also have a higher output voltage than your current van. If you directly linked a calcium battery to a leisure battery, the higher alternator charging voltages would damage the leisure battery in no time.

These smart battery to battery chargers also reduce the input voltage into the leisure battery to more acceptable levels.

I did put up a link to a cheaper unit once, but @Damo is right, better to buy the exact right thing that works. Another company who has been making this type of equipment for years is Sterling products, but again the product is an electronic engineering marvel and comes at a cost.

I have easy access to 220v power as my van is parked on the drive way. If I was buying a new van now, I wouldn't bother with the battery to battery charger; I would just stick the charger onto my battery every night. but someone who isn't as fortunate as I am will have to invest in something like this.

Will having 2 x 100 watt solar panels be a solution to charging your leisure battery? I don't know as I have no experience with them. The motor home guys say that solar isn't an option as a live aboard in the winter in the UK. Would we use the same amount of energy as a live aboard?

A twin operator system with electric hose reels is very power hungry, so I doubt solar panels would be of any use in those instances. The cost of a solar setup won't be much less than a B2B charger, so I would probably put that cost toward the right item.

.

 

[Paul Gard]

Caravan leisure battery's are smart chargers, example if my ex line trolley loses its charge to under 10.5v its dedicated charger will not work, plug my caravan trickle charger in - job done. £20 on e bay brand new.

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[spruce]

Caravan leisure battery's are smart chargers, example if my ex line trolley loses its charge to under 10.5v its dedicated charger will not work, plug my caravan trickle charger in - job done. £20 on e bay brand new.

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

Appreciate a link please.

 

[steve garwood]

Appreciate a link please.

Thanks for your response.

I do own a traditional charger, but might invest in a new one.

What charger would you recommend @spuce?

I'd like one of those that recognize the battery is fully charged and then stop charging. I think these are called smart chargers?

 

[spruce]

Thanks for your response.I do own a traditional charger, but might invest in a new one.

What charger would you recommend @spuce?

I'd like one of those that recognize the battery is fully charged and then stop charging. I think these are called smart chargers?

Yes they are called smart or intelligent chargers.

This is the one I've used for the last 8 years. I often leave it on over the weekend.

Numax 12V 10A Leisure Battery Charger Caravan Campervan Motorhome Marine Boat | eBay

All I've done is replaced the fan as the bearing wore out. I bought 2 for £2.99

I have leads fixed into the back of the van, so just plug the charger in. Thankfully, I don't have to take a 110 amp leisure battery out to charge it.

 

[steve garwood]

Yes they are called smart or intelligent chargers.
This is the one I've used for the last 8 years. I often leave it on over the weekend.

Numax 12V 10A Leisure Battery Charger Caravan Campervan Motorhome Marine Boat | eBay

All I've done is replaced the fan as the bearing wore out. I bought 2 for £2.99

I have leads fixed into the back of the van, so just plug the charger in. Thankfully, I don't have to take a 110 amp leisure battery out to charge it.

Thanks @spruce, very helpful

 

[Damo]

Yes they are called smart or intelligent chargers.
This is the one I've used for the last 8 years. I often leave it on over the weekend.

Numax 12V 10A Leisure Battery Charger Caravan Campervan Motorhome Marine Boat | eBay

All I've done is replaced the fan as the bearing wore out. I bought 2 for £2.99

I have leads fixed into the back of the van, so just plug the charger in. Thankfully, I don't have to take a 110 amp leisure battery out to charge it.

If you had more than one battery would you have to disconnect them ? I always charge independently.

 

[spruce]

By the way, Grippa tank really need to rewrite that explanation using a professional who knows about punctuation and good grammar. There is also one sentence that uses the word 'top' when it should be 'to'.

 

[spruce]

If you had more than one battery would you have to disconnect them ? I always charge independently.

This is a good question. This charger is suitable for charging leisure batteries up to 165 amph.

I would have through that if you have 2 x 110 amp leisure batteries linked together half charged, then charging both those batteries simultaneously will be within the ability of the charger.

I have a VSR (Voltage Sensing Relay) on my van which is bi-directional. When I plug the Charger in, the higher charging voltage activates the VSR and the van battery gets fully charged as well. I've never seen my charger registering a charge on my leisure battery of less than 75% fully charged as I regularly charge those batteries. The charger is never that stressed as it doesn't have that much work to do.

If those battery were very low on charge capacity then I would disconnect them.

.

 

[dan_s2k]

I have a VSR (Voltage Sensing Relay) on my van which is bi-directional. When I plug the Charger in, the higher charging voltage activates the VSR and the van battery gets fully charged as well. I've never seen my charger registering a charge on my leisure battery of less than 75% fully charged as I regularly charge those batteries. The charger is never that stressed as it doesn't have that much work to do.

.

Hi spruce, I bought a van with a split charge relay already fitted. Is there anyway of knowing is this is a VSR? As I'm thinking I need to invest in a trickle charger to charge overnight in van.

Also, I know it's leisure battery in the back (110AH) is quite new, but it's struggling to start so I think the van battery itself needs replacing (getting it checked tomorrow), is there anything I should bear in mind or can I just replace it as normal with a typical battery with 5yr guarantee?

www.wellingtonwindowcleaning.co.uk

 

[spruce]

Winter time isn't a good time for starter batteries @dan_s2k . They are most likely to give up in winter. The engine needs more power to turn it as its cold and the battery looses capacity as well. (It has been known, especially with PSA (Citroen, Peugeot and some Fiat) vehicles that they can have a lazy starter motor which gets worse in winter. It gives the impression that the battery is at fault, but its actually the starter motor. A good clean, new brushes and bearings/bushes solves the problem. It appears to affect starter motors made by both Bosch and Mitsubishi.)

Best way to tell if your relay is a VSR or not is to write down the make and model and google it.

The other way is by looking at it. If it has 3 wires going in and out of it, it will be voltage sensing. This is of course if its only used as a relay to charge the leisure battery. The 3 wires would be;

1. the main cable from the van's battery to the relay.

2. the main cable from the relay to the leisure battery.

3. a single wire from the relay to earth/body of van.

If is an ordinary split charge relay it will have 4 wires. The sames clause above also applies. (This is of course if its only used as a relay to charge the leisure battery.)

1. the main cable from the van's battery to the relay.

2. the main cable from the relay to the leisure battery.

3. a single wire from the relay to earth/body of van.

4. another wire that will come from either the ignition switch or the alternator. (The wire may not come directly from the ignition switch but attached to something that is controlled by the ignition switch. It will be any circuit that switches off when you switch the ignition off and that also switches off when the engine starts.) They usually have a terminal marked IGN or similar on the relay.

The idea of the relay is to separate the leisure battery from the starter battery when the starter battery is under load, ie starting the engine. So the leisure battery will not have any influence on starting the engine.

However, that said, there is a company that does offer a manual override to a separator they sell that will link both batteries together in the case of an emergency but the chances of you having one of those will be very small.

These relays are mainly for caravan use so they have other power take off terminals as well. Modern caravans will need this relay to charge the leisure battery as well as to power the fridge when the tow vehicle's engine is running. It will also have an always live terminal which will be connected to the lights inside the caravan for short term use.

.

 

[dan_s2k]

Thanks spruce. I'm guessing I don't have VSR then as I have four wires from the SCR?

Garage said both batteries needed replacing. They've replaced the vans starter battery.

I believe the pump battery is quite new, so I've purchased the charger you have in the hope that this may bring this battery back up to speed. Could be wishful thinking. They said the pump battery had a life of 36%, whatever that may mean?

You say you leave yours charging over the weekend, would that be a better solution than charging at the end of each days cleaning over night. I'm hoping to do three or four days per week.

www.wellingtonwindowcleaning.co.uk

 

[steve garwood]

View attachment 13209
Thanks spruce. I'm guessing I don't have VSR then as I have four wires from the SCR?

Garage said both batteries needed replacing. They've replaced the vans starter battery.

I believe the pump battery is quite new, so I've purchased the charger you have in the hope that this may bring this battery back up to speed. Could be wishful thinking. They said the pump battery had a life of 36%, whatever that may mean?

You say you leave yours charging over the weekend, would that be a better solution than charging at the end of each days cleaning over night. I'm hoping to do three or four days per week.

www.wellingtonwindowcleaning.co.uk

The sooner you can charge a leisure battery after use the better it is.

Leisure batteries last longer if they are kept fully charged as much as possible /emoticons/smile.png