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robert mitchell

pure freedom diesel heater

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robert mitchell

I have just brought (being delivered next friday) a purefreedom diesel heater 9kw two man for £280 delivered ........its non working however so im taking a risk.

 

apparently its the circulation pump thats broken , im sure somebody on here had pics of the inside of one of these heaters ?

 

possibly spruce?

 

Any advice on fixing it or fitting would be welcome .

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peter rogers

It's a bargain at that even if u get a mechanic to look at it to be on safe dide

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robert mitchell
It's a bargain at that even if u get a mechanic to look at it to be on safe dide

 

Thats what i thought , although a new pump is nearly 300 and a burner could cost 400 odd to fit .

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spruce
I have just brought (being delivered next friday) a purefreedom diesel heater 9kw two man for £280 delivered ........its non working however so im taking a risk.

 

apparently its the circulation pump thats broken , im sure somebody on here had pics of the inside of one of these heaters ?

 

possibly spruce?

 

Any advice on fixing it or fitting would be welcome .

 

A couple of weeks ago Grippa Tank advised that they may have a reconditioned pump in stock. You might give them a ring and see if that is still the case.

 

I had a photo of the single operator system using the 5.2kw Webasto Thermo top.

 

The inside will be pretty similar to the unit this window cleaner sold recently. I think PF added a froststat to theirs but I maybe incorrect saying that.

 

For Sale - Heatwave Thermo 2 diesal heater

 

Here a link to the photo of the unit with the pump underneath.

 

https://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/193/1369/48649307/img-3222-5308927198155523867.JPG

 

I would certainly consider this after asking the supplier if this will fit onto the furnace. I would imagine that the problem is going to be where the pump 'seals' into the heater housing.

 

Electric Water Pump 12V Webasto & Eberspacher Auxiliary Heating Booster Heater

 

The water pump on these models does appear to be a little vulnerable. The pump is one of the first things the heater checks before ignition so if that's not working then the unit will shut down. The only other issue is that after 3 attempts to start the electronic lock out and need to be reset by an engineer. Sometimes being disconnected from the power supply will reset it though.

 

.

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robert mitchell
A couple of weeks ago Grippa Tank advised that they may have a reconditioned pump in stock. You might give them a ring and see if that is still the case.

 

I had a photo of the single operator system using the 5.2kw Webasto Thermo top.

 

The inside will be pretty similar to the unit this window cleaner sold recently. I think PF added a froststat to theirs but I maybe incorrect saying that.

 

For Sale - Heatwave Thermo 2 diesal heater

 

Here a link to the photo of the unit with the pump underneath.

 

https://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/193/1369/48649307/img-3222-5308927198155523867.JPG

 

I would certainly consider this

 

Electric Water Pump 12V Webasto & Eberspacher Auxiliary Heating Booster Heater

 

The water pump on these models does appear to be a little vulnerable. The pump is one of the first things the heater checks before ignition so if that's not working then the unit will shut down. The only other issue is that after 3 attempts to start the electronic lock out and need to be reset by an engineer. Sometimes being disconnected form the power supply will reset it though.

 

.

 

 

Cheers spruce , that pump is certainly a lot cheaper than an original one !

 

Do you know how the engineers reset the lockout , seems a bit overkill for that to be done by an engineer.?

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spruce

Here's a photo of the PF heater in place

 

20140106_143750.jpg.75f2cebbaf048017d84dffbda0ea33a4.jpg

 

In this photo it looks like Webasto have put their sticker over the manufacturer's sticker. It would be interesting to find out who makes the pumps for them.

 

The Webasto part no I believe is 86568A. Hopefully someone (Bosch?) will have a cross reference for a cheaper one.

 

I found these guys to be very helpful in the past

 

ELECTRICAL, VW ELECTRICAL CONNECTORS items in Anglia Postal Parts store on eBay!

 

You will have to contact them as they have no pumps listed at the moment.

 

It could be the Hella make the pumps for Webasto

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spruce
Cheers spruce , that pump is certainly a lot cheaper than an original one !

 

Do you know how the engineers reset the lockout , seems a bit overkill for that to be done by an engineer.?

 

They do it on a laptop using their software. When I mean an engineer, I mean a repairer who has been trained by Webasto to service their units correctly. ;)

 

The other consideration is to open that pump up and see if it not just a simple failure. I might even try to remove the impellor and use one of the auxillary pumps elsewhere in the piping. The inlet is the male hose nipple on the side. The water gets drawn in from the header tank, through the pump and into the boiler, exiting out the top. One of those pumps connected into the hose just before the orginal pump might work. It would be a matter off cutting the supply cables to the original pump, extending them and connecting them up to the new pump. The only word of caution would be to make sure its connected up correctly. I'm not sure where reversing polarity will spin the motor the wrong way.

 

A lot of the Thermo Top C diesel preheaters had the circulation pump mounted in the heater pipe away from the main heater.

 

Do we still have motor rewinders in this country who are skilled enough to rewire a rotor/armature?

 

I found this

 

Armature rewinding service

 

They rewind windscreen wiper motors so I don't see why they couldn't give it a go.

 

 

 

.

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robert mitchell
They do it on a laptop using their software. When I mean an engineer, I mean a repairer who has been trained by Webasto to service their units correctly. ;)

 

The other consideration is to open that pump up and see if it not just a simple failure. I might even try to remove the impellor and use one of the auxillary pumps elsewhere in the piping. The inlet is the male hose nipple on the side. The water gets drawn in from the header tank, through the pump and into the boiler, exiting out the top. One of those pumps connected into the hose just before the orginal pump might work. It would be a matter off cutting the supply cables to the original pump, extending them and connecting them up to the new pump. The only word of caution would be to make sure its connected up correctly. I'm not sure where reversing polarity will spin the motor the wrong way.

 

A lot of the Thermo Top C diesel preheaters had the circulation pump mounted in the heater pipe away from the main heater.

 

Do we still have motor rewinders in this country who are skilled enough to rewire a rotor/armature?

 

.

Cheers spruce , i had a little google and there is a sequence of turning on and off that will reset it without a computer , you cant clear the fault codes but i dont think that matters .

 

Def worth looking into who makes the pumps , £300 seems a lot for such a basic circulation pump!

 

What do you think .....good buy?

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spruce
Cheers spruce , i had a little google and there is a sequence of turning on and off that will reset it without a computer , you cant clear the fault codes but i dont think that matters .

 

Def worth looking into who makes the pumps , £300 seems a lot for such a basic circulation pump!

 

What do you think .....good buy?

 

Definitely. I do think its a good buy. The cleaner who advertised his system for £1250 sold it within a couple of days.

 

(Webasto prices of parts are disgusting. But they are German and the Germans believe they are superior products, even if the components are made in China. They have a large work force, with an R&D department so their manufacturing costs must be very high. They also bought out Eberspacher a few years ago, so that reduced the competition. The Germans are very loyal when it comes to German made products and are usually prepared to willingly pay what ever price is asked. I worked for Bosch for many years, so was well acquainted with their outlook. They remind me a lot of the French who in the main buy French cars due to their loyalty.)

 

You won't clear the fault codes, but they go away on their own. If the memory has recorded 3 faults (I think its 3) and then the heater starts fine then the cycle replaces the first code with a good start. If you start it successfully the second time, the the second code is replaced; the same with the third. So after the 3rd good start all the fault codes are cleared.

 

These heaters run best on road diesel. You are allowed to use red diesel as a heating fuel (so you need a separate tank as you aren't allowed to use red diesel in your van's tank), but red diesel creates too much soot and the glow-pin gets clogged with carbon. This causes premature starting failure.

 

There is much about these units in the boat forums. Boats fill up at the marinas with red diesel as they are allowed to use it.

 

Hurricane boast that their diesel heaters work fine on red diesel, but a service engineer once said that they suffer the same as Webasto units do. Not many complain as there aren't many sold in the GB market.

Brodex and Omnipole supply Hurricane heaters for window cleaning which are made in Canada.

 

-

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kevinc250

is the pump thats gone or has the impeller housing cracked/broken?-they break ever so easily when you remove the pump,i may have a pump thats working as i have a spare one just never checked it

you bought a bargain there robert

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robert mitchell

Well it arrived today , as kevinc250 mentioned the pump housing is broken where it enters the unit , also the wires from the pump have been stripped of the connector and i have no idea where the new one(when i get it) should connect .

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robert mitchell

I have taken the pump off and connected it to a 12v battery , the pump runs so its just the casing that is broken , anyone know if the casing is available seperately ?

 

spruce , the pump is a hella pump and has a number stamped on the case (pa66gf25) and one on the label under the webasto label (65544) .

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kevinc250

you can buy the 24volt pump at half the price on flea bay but i beleive should have the same pump head as i was looking at that,those pump heads are so delicate and i've looked all over the web for just the head but no luck whatsoever

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AGlassAct

If you struggle give this guy a try on eBay - 252180909063 I sent my thermo top to him and he serviced mine and sold me a replacement fuel pump for £40 - I tried a standard 12v pump which didn't work!!!. He also supplied me with a new exhaust, pipe and other consumables when I plumbed it in to my new van set up. I spend hours researching my model when I first got it and this guy sorted my queries out in a few simple emails.

 

 

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kevinc250

i'd go for that robert mitchell,your need is greater than mine buy it before i do-let me know if you don't want it mate

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spruce
i'd go for that robert mitchell,your need is greater than mine buy it before i do-let me know if you don't want it mate

 

That's what I would do. Buy it.;)

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robert mitchell

hopefully thats all thats wrong with it :-)

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spruce

No matter what else is wrong, it won't cost more than a fully working heater is worth to repair it.

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robert mitchell

Very true , you can but the thermo 90 brand new for 1100 .

 

Which makes the parts prices hilarious really , 2 or 3 new parts and you may as well buy a new heater .

 

Webasto dealers even list a 24 litre diesel fuel tank if you want a separate tank .........comes to £268 with vat ....for a small plastic tank !

 

Could get a marine fuel tank cheaper , its scandalous .

 

 

 

 

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spruce

Unfortunately you have a German company with large overheads, so someone has to pay for that. Its the same with any company in any country.

 

The Germans are very loyal to own brands and will never insult anyone or any business by asking for a discount or cheaper price.

 

25 years ago I had a run in with Germany regarding spare part prices when I worked for Robert Bosch in the service depatrment in South Africa. Someone in Germany had come up with the concept that spares would never cost more than 5 times the retail price of the power tool in Germany. From my experience I can assure you that this decision was a collective one as the Germans discuss the pros and cons of any plan with dozens of people before it gets approved.

 

They thought this was brilliant as in those days a Ford Escort cost 27 times more than the price of a new Escort in spare parts.

 

But for us it was cheaper to buy 1000 x 9" angle grinders and strip them for spares rather than buying what we needed individually. In the exercise I did those 1000 grinders would be 5 months stock holding for armatures, carbon brushes and switches. We would only need 20 motor housings with field coils, 50 handles and 400 gear sets which would have a new part number (Bosch supplied gears separately in those days.) 10 gearbox housings and whatever cables we could use in the company. The rest would be crushed and even with labour the cost of spares we needed would be cheaper than what we were already paying before this new 5 times concept was introduced.

 

I would say that Webasto has a similar principle in action, although I wouldn't know what their figure was.In those Bosch days most parts were made in house except bearings, grease and other parts such as that. In the global market of today many components will be sourced from an outside suppliers (Brodex sourcing pumps from Shurflo and putting their Brodex sticker across it is one example) and the company puts their name across it. I was hoping that the Hella number you found would lead us to another supply source which is cheaper.

 

This is another reason why I'm pretty sure that the motor is the same as a lot of these other's being sold as auxillary electrical water pumps. I would expect they are all made as OE parts in the same factory somewhere in China.

 

On the Thermo Top C there is a Japanese make of water pump thats interchangeable with the original Webasto. The Chinese are selling a copy of this heater under another name for a lot less money that the Webasto unit. Who knows what the long term quality is, but for all we know, that factory is probably manufacturing the whole heater for Webasto in the first place.

 

.

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spruce
In fact just found a 30 litre one on google for £32 .

 

 

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

Any outboard fuel tank is suitable. You need to have an inbuilt pickup as well as a fuel gauge so you can see at a glance how much fuel you have left. You also need to have reasonable length of fuel hose as I wouldn't recommend filling a separate fixed tank in the back of the van in case of diesel spills.

 

However, you may get screamed at over a fuel station intercom as most put a limit of filling a 5 liter container.

 

.

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robert mitchell

Well the new pump arrived and i have fitted it , i connected the unit to a spare car battery( no fuel tank yet so just a test ) , the water pump started then the air fan so it looks like the pump is all that is wrong with it :-)

 

Just have to work out how im going to fit it to the van as my grippatank system doesnt have a frame that i can attach it too .

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