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adamangler

D.I.Y Electric hose reel conversion for less than £50



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Cleanteam South west

yeah see what you mean, that would have been a pain mate.

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Guest

Anyone have any success opening up the motor to disengage one way of its rotation to assist with an easy pull out? 

 

So the motor spins freely when the hose is being pulled out

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Skxawng
8 hours ago, LAMS said:

Anyone have any success opening up the motor to disengage one way of its rotation to assist with an easy pull out? 

 

So the motor spins freely when the hose is being pulled out

I don't think that's possible.. correct me if I'm wrong someone, but I think the resistance is the permanent magnets acting on the coil and I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. You could use something like a one way sprocket from a bicycle in place of the large sprocket but the problem is that it would need to rotate freely to wind out in the same direction as the motor will pull it. In other words, the motor can only turn it in the same direction as it turns when unwinding. It would just spin around trying to wind it back in. I don't think there's a way around that without some complicated mechanism, or a solenoid to only engage the motor while switched on like a starter motor.

 

I don't think the resistance on the motor is high enough to be worth messing with though personally.

Edited by Skxawng

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Nudel
3 hours ago, LAMS said:

Anyone have any success opening up the motor to disengage one way of its rotation to assist with an easy pull out? 

 

So the motor spins freely when the hose is being pulled out

No experience personally, but maybe you could fit a one way bearing?

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Guest
2 hours ago, Nudel said:

No experience personally, but maybe you could fit a one way bearing?

A one way bearing sounds interesting

Edited by

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Skxawng

First attempt at a mechanism to wind on the hose evenly. Wired up with the relays on the wireless receiver so it comes on when one of the hose reels is wound in.

 

The problem is I've discovered, is that it needs to move left and right very slowly to wind on evenly and I can't get it to go slow enough without stopping and starting. I'm thinking of trying to gear it down with a sprocket and chain. 

But does anyone know if a stepper motor would work better? Or is there a simpler way of doing this?

 

IMG_20190225_142525.jpg

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Nudel

Nice solution @Skxawng, I really like the approach.

 

I have experience with stepper motors from 3D printers and you can have them go however slow you want. If you do 256 microstepping one full rotation of the shaft is over 50k steps. White smaller nema17 might work well, l think you'd be better off with a beefy nema23 for durability. You also need a dedicated stepper motor driver, which does complicate things a bit.

 

I don't know the torque you need for your contraption, but gearing might be needed for stepper motors also and the you could just as well gear down the DC motor you have already.

 

 

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Skxawng
1 hour ago, Nudel said:

Nice solution @Skxawng, I really like the approach.

 

I have experience with stepper motors from 3D printers and you can have them go however slow you want. If you do 256 microstepping one full rotation of the shaft is over 50k steps. White smaller nema17 might work well, l think you'd be better off with a beefy nema23 for durability. You also need a dedicated stepper motor driver, which does complicate things a bit.

 

I don't know the torque you need for your contraption, but gearing might be needed for stepper motors also and the you could just as well gear down the DC motor you have already.

 

 

Thanks, I've had a look at the nema23 stepper motors on eBay and they are reasonably priced enough. I know next to nothing about how to use them though so I'll have to look into it.

It doesn't take much torque at all to move it but my standard motor has virtually 0 torque at the speeds I'm trying to get it to run at.

Thanks for the input!

Edited by Skxawng

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Guest

I wonder what motors GrippaTank are using, there motors run at only 3-4 amps!!!

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Cleanteam South west

How about using a windscreen wiper motor ? 

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Guest

Just a thought, our motors are rated at 13.5 amps at 24v, does that mean while using a 12v battery setup it’s running 27 amps? @spruce

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spruce
2 hours ago, LAMS said:

Just a thought, our motors are rated at 13.5 amps at 24v, does that mean while using a 12v battery setup it’s running 27 amps? @spruce

 

Waterworks supply their hose reels with 30 amp fuses I'm told. A 350 watt 24v motor will draw 15 amps with a 24v power source. This fuse rating by Waterworks seems to indicate that it will draw twice the current.

 

A 24v motor has half the speed when powered by 12v, half the torque but I have often wondered if it consumes twice the current. According to Ohms law it doesn't if the resistance is the same in the windings, however I can't help but thinking that at lower voltage there will be less current flow because of the internal resistance of the motor. In my 350 watt motor example, the motor is rated at 350 watt at 24 volts. It won't be rated at 350 watts when driven with 12v - I would say it would be half so 175 watt.

 

So I just don't know TBH. I have looked for an answer on the Internet but after searching twice (today and about a year ago), I haven't found a conclusive answer. BTW the ohm's law calculator says it will consume half the current (amps) but then why would Waterworks include a 30 amp fuse?

 

What you could do is try it with a 15 amp fuse and see if it blows when you have it all assembled.

Edited by spruce

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Guest
16 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

Waterworks supply their hose reels with 30 amp fuses I'm told. A 350 watt 24v motor will draw 15 amps with a 24v power source. This fuse rating by Waterworks seems to indicate that it will draw twice the current.

 

A 24v motor has half the speed when powered by 12v, half the torque but I have often wondered if it consumes twice the current. According to Ohms law it doesn't if the resistance is the same in the windings, however I can't help but thinking that at lower voltage there will be less current flow because of the internal resistance of the motor. In my 350 watt motor example, the motor is rated at 350 watt at 24 volts. It won't be rated at 350 watts when driven with 12v - I would say it would be half so 175 watt.

 

So I just don't know TBH. I have looked for an answer on the Internet but after searching twice (today and about a year ago), I haven't found a conclusive answer. BTW the ohm's law calculator says it will consume half the current (amps) but then why would Waterworks include a 30 amp fuse?

 

What you could do is try it with a 15 amp fuse and see if it blows when you have it all assembled.

If they’re using a 30amp fuse then the cables must be big

Edited by

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spruce
4 hours ago, Cleanteam South west said:

How about using a windscreen wiper motor ? 

 

A windscreen wiper motor gets its power through a tiny gear on the armature/rotor onto a big gear which drives the wiper mechanism. This 'worm gear' reduces the speed of the motor by around 50 times and increases the torque of the motor by up to 50 times as well. So a windscreen motor itself isn't very powerful. It gets its power (torque) from its gearing.

 

Your problem is that the worm gear inside the wiper motor works well when the motor has current applied to it. It will create a problem when you are trying to pull your hose off the hose reel. It will 'lock' unless you can fit a free wheeling sprocket - eg a bicycle rear sprocket. You won't be able to operate your wipers by moving the wiper arms on your car. Chances are you will break the mechanism before the motor turns.

 

It the same with the electric motor that operates your power window of your car/van. To operate the windows the motor must turn each way - one for up and the other down. How easy is it to force a window down without powering the motor?

 

20 minutes ago, LAMS said:

If they’re using a 30amp fuse then the cables must be big

 

Yes. But 30 amp cabling over a relatively short distance isn't that big. Its 2.5mm. Come to think of it, I'm sure that Squeeky Clean Dave did a video on building an electric hose reel and he under advised on cable size. Found it. See what he says from 8.30 onwards.

 

 

Edited by spruce

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BigFoot

Having trouble sourcing a sprocket for my diy reel any links or online shops for recommendations. I’m converting the exact same reel as in the above video.

cheers

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Skxawng
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, BigFoot said:

Having trouble sourcing a sprocket for my diy reel any links or online shops for recommendations. I’m converting the exact same reel as in the above video.

cheers

On eBay, there's only one ideal one but it's in China with delivery being potentially up to the end of march and £8.24. (item number 112188396059)

Amazon has the same one but more expensive and delivery is the same.

I bought this one:

Screenshot_20190303-114433.png

 

Not ideal as the central hole is 1mm smaller than the spindle diameter. It took about 15 mins with a rounded file to get it to the right size so can be used if no better one comes up.

The original one from PetrolScooter is still out of stock, though they said in an email that they will get more stock in eventually.

Edited by Skxawng

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BigFoot
2 hours ago, Skxawng said:

On eBay, there's only one ideal one but it's in China with delivery being potentially up to the end of march and £8.24. (item number 112188396059)

Amazon has the same one but more expensive and delivery is the same.

I bought this one:

Screenshot_20190303-114433.png

 

Not ideal as the central hole is 1mm smaller than the spindle diameter. It took about 15 mins with a rounded file to get it to the right size so can be used if no better one comes up.

The original one from PetrolScooter is still out of stock, though they said in an email that they will get more stock in eventually.

Torn weather to get this or see if petrolscooter get the other one back in as I prefer the four predrilled holes.

cheers @Skxawng

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Skxawng
Posted (edited)

It's a pity Waterworks don't sell their custom sprocket with the correct hole spacing seperately, as that would make things easier not having to drill holes either. If they did though, I don't know how much they'd charge. They don't sell the kit to upgrade your HS120 reel (clover/petal type) anymore but when they did it was £238 and you don't seem to get much for the money:

 

powerup_add_on_pack.jpg

Edited by Skxawng

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BigFoot
1 hour ago, Skxawng said:

It's a pity Waterworks don't sell their custom sprocket with the correct hole spacing seperately, as that would make things easier not having to drill holes either. If they did though, I don't know how much they'd charge. They don't sell the kit to upgrade your HS120 reel (clover/petal type) anymore but when they did it was £238 and you don't seem to get much for the money:

 

powerup_add_on_pack.jpg

That’s crazy mark up for just that. In the wrong buisness!

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BigFoot

What size chain have people used and recommend? See photo

 

723BBAD0-9990-44EE-9775-1F2C446BC66B.png

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Skxawng
Posted (edited)

I bought this one: 

Screenshot_20190308-083336.png

It's long enough to go behind the hose reel. If you want it to go under the reel like the waterworks one then you'll need a shorter chain. This one comes with a split link so you can shorten it yourself.

Edited by Skxawng

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BigFoot
30 minutes ago, Skxawng said:

I bought this one: 

Screenshot_20190308-083336.png

It's long enough to go behind the hose reel. If you want it to go under the reel like the waterworks one then you'll need a shorter chain. This one comes with a split link so you can shorten it yourself.

friends thumbs GIF

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Skxawng
Posted (edited)

https://youtu.be/d8SFoBMYEw8

 

My second attempt at an automatic winder so I don't have to guide it on by hand. Which is handy as I have a remote so I can wind it in while walking back to the van without it getting tangled. Gonna try it out tomorrow and see how it goes in practice.

 

IMG_20190804_211502.jpg

IMG_20190804_211525.jpg

IMG_20190804_211511.jpg

 

The black rollers I find, aren't particularly good as they don't have bearings so have a lot of friction with the 90° bend. So I've made my own rollers using wardrobe rail end brackets, 6000rs bearings and the rollers from the common garden hose guides.

Edited by Skxawng

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BigFoot
4 hours ago, Skxawng said:

https://youtu.be/d8SFoBMYEw8

 

My second attempt at an automatic winder so I don't have to guide it on by hand. Which is handy as I have a remote so I can wind it in while walking back to the van without it getting tangled. Gonna try it out tomorrow and see how it goes in practice.

 

IMG_20190804_211502.jpg

IMG_20190804_211525.jpg

IMG_20190804_211511.jpg

 

The black rollers I find, aren't particularly good as they don't have bearings so have a lot of friction with the 90° bend. So I've made my own rollers using wardrobe rail end brackets, 6000rs bearings and the rollers from the common garden hose guides.

 

Thats genius! 

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adamangler

Ive seen some D.I.Y contraptions in my time, but that is by far the best 

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Skxawng
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, adamangler said:

Ive seen some D.I.Y contraptions in my time, but that is by far the best 

Thanks 👍 It doesn't exactly scream sophistication 😆 but it's the best I could do on a very tight budget and little free time, plus it's a lot more fun than window cleaning!

I'm wrestling with a better way to route the hose out of the van at the moment...

 

 

IMG_20190806_183530.jpg

Edited by Skxawng

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