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Family problems. Need advice

Thelittlefella

New member
Messages
19
Location
Liverpool
Hello all. I’m after some advice, and since my problems stem from work, I thought this would be the best place to ask for it. I’ve been a window cleaner for 2 and a half years now. I love it. I’m good at it, take pride in my work and providing a good service to my customers. My dad had a little round prior, a tiny fraction of what it’s worth now. 

I’ve worked hard the last couple of years to build it so we can have a decent living. From the wrap on the van, to the cards we hand out, to the gocardless and app I set up to make life easier, to the flyers I put up in shop windows, to the uniform on our backs and the website I got made were because of me and my efforts. My Dad decided he wanted to step back and brought my younger brother in. So I got him on payroll reluctantly as HE’S NOT A GRAFTER, he’s a coaster. But he’s got a license, which I don’t have - been doing lessons for the last month as I know that it’ll all fall apart if I rely on him to get from A to B.

He told me for the second time in 5 weeks today, “I’m not going to work”. There can’t be a third time. What I’m asking is am I justified, family and all, in putting an ultimatum to my dad that it’s either my brother or me, come Monday morning. My Dads not an easy man to talk to, I’m always wrong to him, to him and my brother, I think I’m the “big boss”, which I know to be a weak insult to someone  who’s just trying to keep things in check. I’m not valued, I just get on with it. They go home and that’s the day done for them. I go home and do paperwork and advertise so we make more money. So am I justified in giving an ultimatum that he choose me or my kid brother?

Thanks 

 
no easy ansaw to that.  all i could say is I made a rule never to work with famliy from past expirance. some famliys might get on ok with working in the same place, but most iv know it ways causes problems both in the work and in famliy relations.  it just dose.  I won't even have a partner in my working life now. hire staff yes, but there can only be one boss.  thats one of the great things of window cleaning, being ur own boss, not being denpenant on other people, or in other words having to suffer putting up with someones else ****.  if we build bigg enought cliant bases we can afford to drop a bad custy if there messing us about. the value of independace in life for me is the thing i value most. 

if i was in ur situation I would be looking to go my own way over time.   suffer it till u have the license and can drive urself, start quiyetly lining up getting urself into a possiton of being independant. when its all lined up and ready i would explain that I dont want work getting in the way of famliy life cause its not worth it. that way ur not asking anyone to choose u or someone else, ur not having to ask anyone for anything. ur going ur own way, thay can do what thay like, but ur not ansawable to them or having to give ultimatuns or anything like that.    if thay dont like it then it only helps prove the point.

I was in a famliy busniess once. it distroyed the company and damaged famliy relations very badly.  took years for the ill feeling to be gotten over and the memorys of it are still there to this day amoung everyone invloved.  looking back i wish id never got involved in the first place. it was just never worth it. this is just my expirnace in life. everyone will have a diffrent one, only u can deside whats best for you, and just how things are with ur situation.  hope it works out ok

 
I’m learning that family and work don’t mix. Think I’ve been a glutton for punishment. I’m gonna get my license, get a van, take my share of the round. It’s not what I’d like, would be nice to have a working relationship with family but I don’t think it’s possible, you know how to push each other button too well. I don’t post on here much, but it’s calmed me down hearing some sensible words. Love my dad and brother but it’s time to consider other options 

 
I worked in a family business for 19 years with parents and an elder brother. My brother and I literally fought each other many times over the years so I know what you're going through. After my Father retired I ran the place, my brother looked after the production side with me. My role took up approx. 10 hours a day and his 8, I also worked 4 hours on every Saturday and he never worked 1. I also had the mental pressures of profit and loss, sales, purchasing etc and both earned the same amount of money, so fully understand how you feel.

My advice would be to call a family meeting, away from the house as this is less likely to get overheated, and tell them how you feel. I would take my time first and write everything down so you don't forget things you need to say. If they gang up or try and belittle you then you will know you will have to go it alone. You can also leave with your head held high because you gave them the option. They might actually listen and heed what you're saying, by the sounds of your original post I doubt it. If what you said is true then if you do go your own way they will probably lose most of their customers and you need to be in a position to pick them up. Good luck in whichever way you go, I don't envy your choices.

 
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I'm very lucky to be in the situation that I have a great working relationship with my wife and my son. However I do know that it seems very often family businesses do have an unfortunate lack of balance and commitment between members. It's clear that this is how it is in your case. You're dedicated and trying your hardest to get on and prosper, your brother is coasting and disinterested and your dad is siding with him. I've been in the same situation with family members a couple of times in the past. My gut feeling from personal experience is as the other guys are saying, that you'd be better off to get your licence and strike out on your own. Let baby brother fend for himself, he'll either sink or swim, his choice. I'd never again be carrying a coaster. Been there done that, as they say. Don't waste years trying to push an elephant up a hill. 

Make it happen brother, you won't know yourself. 

Best of luck to you. ?

 
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Do not work with family!!

I’ve told this before on here. I used to be a window fitter with my brother. We were inside a customers house when he really pi*sed me off. My head finally exploded in temper and I chinned him. He fell backwards knocking the shelf of the top of the fireplace ??.

Never worked together since.

No Pub tonight, my mate is fixing my fridge ????.

I’ll make up for it tomorrow ???.

Have a great weekend fellow windies, more to life than work ?

 
I worked in a family business for 19 years with parents and an elder brother. My brother and I literally fought each other many times over the years so I know what you're going through. After my Father retired I ran the place, my brother looked after the production side with me. My role took up approx. 10 hours a day and his 8, I also worked 4 hours on every Saturday and he never worked 1. I also had the mental pressures of profit and loss, sales, purchasing etc and both earned the same amount of money, so fully understand how you feel.

My advice would be to call a family meeting, away from the house as this is less likely to get overheated, and tell them how you feel. I would take my time first and write everything down so you don't forget things you need to say. If they gang up or try and belittle you then you will know you will have to go it alone. You can also leave with your head held high because you gave them the option. They might actually listen and heed what you're saying, by the sounds of your original post I doubt it. If what you said is true then if you do go your own way they will probably lose most of their customers and you need to be in a position to pick them up. Good luck in whichever way you go, I don't envy your choices.


I'm very lucky to be in the situation that I have a great working relationship with my wife and my son. However I do know that it seems very often family businesses do have an unfortunate lack of balance and commitment between members. It's clear that this is how it is in your case. You're dedicated and trying your hardest to get on and prosper, your brother is coasting and disinterested and your dad is siding with him. I've been in the same situation with family members a couple of times in the past. My gut feeling from personal experience is as the other guys are saying, that you'd be better off to get your licence and strike out on your own. Let baby brother fend for himself, he'll either sink or swim, his choice. I'd never again be carrying a coaster. Been there done that, as they say. Don't waste years trying to push an elephant up a hill. 

Make it happen brother, you won't know yourself. 

Best of luck to you. ?
Hope in many years time when I get to your ages I have your wisdom ?

good advise fellas ?

 
Cheers lads. I know striking out on my own is the best solution, it's been floating in my mind for a few months now. Never sought council on the internet before but glad that I did. I'm just gonna bite my lip until I pass my test. I've tried the carrot and the stick with my brother. Money doesn't seem to be an incentive for him to work hard, as long as he has enough to survive. He has two daughters - he should work hard for them, which I've told him too many times but he doesn't because he's content with the bare minimum for himself and them, but that's his choice I guess. It's really strange to me, he's seen how well you can do off this if you do it right - we couldn't be more different in that respect. 

 
@Thelittlefellamaybe start thinking about your own new company name and logo, in case you end up having to start by yourself? Not that you need that, hopefully, but in case you have a complete fall out it's comforting to have spent just a bit of time thinking about those things. Find out if others have admin access to shared online accounts and the like. And in who's name is the legal company, etc.

I was at one time working for a family company and was expected to graft at it as if it was my own family even though the pay was abysmal compared to what I earned them back. 

Thus I made a long time plan to start by myself. I bought some of my own equipment and tools, my own work clothes (so I could do other work without being plastered in their logo). So when the day came I could return the tools they owned and the very next day be out on my own feet without any large expenses. Best decision I made. ?

 
Cheers lads. I know striking out on my own is the best solution, it's been floating in my mind for a few months now. Never sought council on the internet before but glad that I did. I'm just gonna bite my lip until I pass my test. I've tried the carrot and the stick with my brother. Money doesn't seem to be an incentive for him to work hard, as long as he has enough to survive. He has two daughters - he should work hard for them, which I've told him too many times but he doesn't because he's content with the bare minimum for himself and them, but that's his choice I guess. It's really strange to me, he's seen how well you can do off this if you do it right - we couldn't be more different in that respect. 
I have an idea for you. Wait until you pass your test, call the family meeting as suggested by @Part Timer. Suggest you both take a franchise of the business. Pay whatever you need to your dad each and take a cut each. Separate vans, separate businesses. As he struggles to keep up you will be on hand to take any excess work etc. If you give them the ultimatum it’s that or you’re going alone. It’s a good middle ground option IMO. The only issue comes (sorry to sound morbid) but when your old man passes away and leaves the business to both of you. I know of a company by me, running since 1962, used to have his boys out with him. In the end only one stuck around but the other boys have been left a percentage of the business so I’m told 

 
Franchise sounds good for the time being - you get to keep custys and the brand while working independently but as P4 says, the moment the old man is gone (who will probably leave the biz to your bro - like you said, he see's you as always being in the wrong) then that's the moment you need to have already registered another windy company, logo, accounts etc. Build up your round under the franchise so that you're in a position to grow back to being comfortable and the moment you're back in that comfortable position, scrap the franchise and switch all your custys to your new biz. That rules out any interference from your father or brother.

Then it's down to the pair of them to survive. If your brother doesn't want to work, so be it.

Money doesn't seem to be an incentive for him to work hard, as long as he has enough to survive. He has two daughters - he should work hard for them, which I've told him too many times but he doesn't because he's content with the bare minimum for himself and them, but that's his choice I guess. It's really strange to me, he's seen how well you can do off this if you do it right - we couldn't be more different in that respect. 


I have to ask something... does he suffer with depression, anxiety, lack of self belief? - Because to me what you say sounds like a fella who is either just genuinely lazy or he doesn't believe that he can actually get any higher off the ground financially and has just given up preferring to just bumble along - easily confused with laziness. Trust me, I know the latter because i've suffered with it for many years. Window cleaning was something I'd never have considered but since getting into it myself I actually have hope..

 
I would just do a crash course or something and get your licence asap.

You could be passed in a few weeks......

Business and family generally dont mix so get your licence like tomorrow and feck them off in a nice way ?

 
I would just do a crash course or something and get your licence asap.

You could be passed in a few weeks......

Business and family generally dont mix so get your licence like tomorrow and feck them off in a nice way ?
Yep! I wouldn't be waiting for the right time. As Adam said, I'd be getting on with it. ??

 
I would just do a crash course or something and get your licence asap.

You could be passed in a few weeks......

Business and family generally dont mix so get your licence like tomorrow and feck them off in a nice way ?
I've sacked my old instructor before all this, as he kept rearranging times. on the Friday after I posted I got a new one. 4 hours a week so I should be test ready in a couple of weeks. A driver's license is only thing he has over me, so when that's sorted, there's nothing to hinder me. I can go without him. I've thought long and hard over the weekend about whether I can make this work, I don't think working with him is a long term prospect, family or not, this work isn't for him. I'll try to make it work short term with an eye on the bigger picture. 

 
Franchise sounds good for the time being - you get to keep custys and the brand while working independently but as P4 says, the moment the old man is gone (who will probably leave the biz to your bro - like you said, he see's you as always being in the wrong) then that's the moment you need to have already registered another windy company, logo, accounts etc. Build up your round under the franchise so that you're in a position to grow back to being comfortable and the moment you're back in that comfortable position, scrap the franchise and switch all your custys to your new biz. That rules out any interference from your father or brother.

Then it's down to the pair of them to survive. If your brother doesn't want to work, so be it.

I have to ask something... does he suffer with depression, anxiety, lack of self belief? - Because to me what you say sounds like a fella who is either just genuinely lazy or he doesn't believe that he can actually get any higher off the ground financially and has just given up preferring to just bumble along - easily confused with laziness. Trust me, I know the latter because i've suffered with it for many years. Window cleaning was something I'd never have considered but since getting into it myself I actually have hope..
He says he has anxiety and I don't doubt that and I am sympathetic, but I do think he makes excuses. I haven't had an easy time of it either in my life. He lays bare all his wounds and bruises for all to see like he's entitled to sympathy. It's hard to really paint a picture of him,  just typing about him. He worries me. Two kids, back living with my mum and dad, 25. Doesn't look good. I've got my life straight and my work is part of that. Angers me that he's so ungrateful. He doesn't work for a huge multi national company. It's just 3 men and every job matters 

 
I've sacked my old instructor before all this, as he kept rearranging times. on the Friday after I posted I got a new one. 4 hours a week so I should be test ready in a couple of weeks. A driver's license is only thing he has over me, so when that's sorted, there's nothing to hinder me. I can go without him. I've thought long and hard over the weekend about whether I can make this work, I don't think working with him is a long term prospect, family or not, this work isn't for him. I'll try to make it work short term with an eye on the bigger picture. 
Just one thing else I'll add, no matter what you decide you will have to live with the consequences. If you pass your test and tell them to do one you could well end up losing your family. I'm not saying stick with it and keep carrying them on your back as that is obviously wrong. If you do split up without an agreement how are you going to separate the work out amicably. It's very easy for people that have never been in your situation to say tell them to do one, unfortunately in family situations it isn't that easy. Ultimately you have to do what's right for you, as I said in my original reply I don't envy your choices.

 
softly sofly would be my strategy,  no big show down. just start trying establish independant work via currant custys and new ones. even if it takes 6 months or a year.  just knowing theres light at the end of the tunnel helps releave the stress, knowing theres a rout out. i dont know the set up or who owns what in ur situation or how much of it is ur share, but i would be preperd for the idea that people arent going want to part with any of it fairly. specaily if thay see it as u being the one thats leaving.  some times peole will use that to say u dont desever taking any part of the company. i know thats what happend in my situation. it got really ugle and really personal, people just started getting proper nasty and went on the take, this might not be how it will play out in ur situation. just that there was a time i never dreamed it would get like that in what i was involved in, but it did. 

 
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