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Dirty dan

Fan jets vs pencil jets



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Dirty dan

I’ve been trying to look for solutions to hydrophobic windows everywhere. Some people are saying to whack the flow up, others saying to take longer rinsing and the rest are saying they use fan jets. I’m just wondering what you guys think. The other idea I was wondering, does anyone use both at the same time to cover every event without having to keep swapping? 

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Davy G
50 minutes ago, Dirty dan said:

I’ve been trying to look for solutions to hydrophobic windows everywhere. Some people are saying to whack the flow up, others saying to take longer rinsing and the rest are saying they use fan jets. I’m just wondering what you guys think. The other idea I was wondering, does anyone use both at the same time to cover every event without having to keep swapping? 

Gardiner 100 degree fan jets for me. For all work including gutter, fascia, soffits and conservatories.

 

Windows Normal vertical agitation to get the dirt loose.

 

Rinsing Get a good head of water at the top of the glass with fast, full width, side to side strokes, a fairly high flow and bring  down a continuous curtain of water using the same full width side to side strokes and high flow. Do it right and you can do it fast. Keep the brush lightly touching the glass the whole time to allow the bristles to continue working and to contain the spray. This will prevent spotting due to splashback and allow the water to be focused on draining out of the bottom of the brush taking dirt with it. A quick visual check to catch and bring down any odd bits that might not have come all the way down. 

 

Important for me :

Start the clean with a couple of fast strokes across and back on the sill to break the crust and let the water start loosening some of the dirt before moving on to wìndow and frame. Finish the sill after completing the window wash. 

Work fast 20 - 30 seconds for most average size wìndows. 

 

Hope that's a help. 🙂 

Edited by Davy G

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Dirty dan
1 hour ago, Davy G said:

Gardiner 100 degree fan jets for me. For all work including gutter, fascia, soffits and conservatories.

 

Windows Normal vertical agitation to get the dirt loose.

 

Rinsing Get a good head of water at the top of the glass with fast, full width, side to side strokes, a fairly high flow and bring  down a continuous curtain of water using the same full width side to side strokes and high flow. Do it right and you can do it fast. Keep the brush lightly touching the glass the whole time to allow the bristles to continue working and to contain the spray. This will prevent spotting due to splashback and allow the water to be focused on draining out of the bottom of the brush taking dirt with it. A quick visual check to catch and bring down any odd bits that might not have come all the way down. 

 

Important for me :

Start the clean with a couple of fast strokes across and back on the sill to break the crust and let the water start loosening some of the dirt before moving on to wìndow and frame. Finish the sill after completing the window wash. 

Work fast 20 - 30 seconds for most average size wìndows. 

 

Hope that's a help. 🙂 

Thanks. That’s really good info. Are fans good in the wind for you? I tried them once and water was going everywhere except the window. Problem was that window cleaning warehouse told me to hold brush well away from window. As you don’t do that I suppose you’re getting a better rinse

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Davy G
1 hour ago, Dirty dan said:

Thanks. That’s really good info. Are fans good in the wind for you? I tried them once and water was going everywhere except the window. Problem was that window cleaning warehouse told me to hold brush well away from window. As you don’t do that I suppose you’re getting a better rinse

Welcome, yeah exactly as I said, "against the window" the whole time. If it's windy and you hold well away from the glass, no matter what type of jets you use it will go everywhere I should have thought? I save a lot of water and time using this method. 🙂

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paul alan

For hydrophobic glass you want a rinse bar.

 

A rinse bar can clean he glass with precision, control and ease.

 

 

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Davy G

I've not tried a rinse bar yet as I've never felt the need. I use exactly the same method no matter which type of glass or whether they're leaded or not. I might try one some time as a matter of thorough comparison. Though I do like to keep things as simple and light as possible. 

 

Having said that I've recently started using a swivel, for the second time, after reading another comment of recommendation on here. Didn't get on with it the first time round. It felt very alien to me, so I quit too easily (unusual for me) 😊. I've got the hang of it now (light grip and twist the pole)☺️. I quite like it even though it adds a tiny bit of weight. Less good for getting spider's nests out of corners I'm finding though as I can't get the pressure on the brush ends. 

 

So many combinations of equipment to use and we all find our preferences, eh? 🙂

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Part Timer
5 hours ago, Dirty dan said:

I’ve been trying to look for solutions to hydrophobic windows everywhere. Some people are saying to whack the flow up, others saying to take longer rinsing and the rest are saying they use fan jets. I’m just wondering what you guys think. The other idea I was wondering, does anyone use both at the same time to cover every event without having to keep swapping? 

I have never had a problem with hydrophobic windows, I clean a few and whilst they never look right, I've never had a complaint. Don't think I do them any differently but subconsciously probably rinse them slightly longer. 

Briefly tried fan jets and didn't like them and only use a rinse bar on a 60' pole, as rinsing off at that height isn't fun. 

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Marko067
7 hours ago, Davy G said:

Gardiner 100 degree fan jets for me. For all work including gutter, fascia, soffits and conservatories.

 

Windows Normal vertical agitation to get the dirt loose.

 

Rinsing Get a good head of water at the top of the glass with fast, full width, side to side strokes, a fairly high flow and bring  down a continuous curtain of water using the same full width side to side strokes and high flow. Do it right and you can do it fast. Keep the brush lightly touching the glass the whole time to allow the bristles to continue working and to contain the spray. This will prevent spotting due to splashback and allow the water to be focused on draining out of the bottom of the brush taking dirt with it. A quick visual check to catch and bring down any odd bits that might not have come all the way down. 

 

Important for me :

Start the clean with a couple of fast strokes across and back on the sill to break the crust and let the water start loosening some of the dirt before moving on to wìndow and frame. Finish the sill after completing the window wash. 

Work fast 20 - 30 seconds for most average size wìndows. 

 

Hope that's a help. 🙂 

 

This is also what works best for me pretty much to the letter

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paul alan
40 minutes ago, Marko067 said:

 

This is also what works best for me pretty much to the letter

I have never been able to find a way of working with fan jets that I feel is effective or efficient.

 

The worst for me is hydrophobic glass as when using pencil or rinse bar, as you rinse you can see the area being rinsed clearly, and you leave the glass dry in most cases. With jets all I could see was mist being blown all over the place and no idea of which was clean water drops or which were dirty.

 

Sometimes I will skip a top frame if the situation calls for it, carefully  rinsing a couple of mm under the top seal, there's no way I could do that with fan jets.

 

I must say I have never taken the time to fully master the fan jet "way" as I imagine those that use religiously have, I would very much like to see a video of the fan jet being used as it should, especially on hydrophobic glass. Hydrophilic glass has never caused a problem and can be rinsed how ever you like.

 

The more I experience I get with the rinse bars though the more I see just how much easier, quicker, and more effective it is. I went off using the rinse bar a couple of months ago, but have since resumed.

 

It is a far superior way to clean windows, some days I just feel like reverting back to my old ways and bust some pencil jets out, when I do I'm amazed at how long it takes to agitate, then rinse separately afterwards.

Edited by paul alan

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Dirty dan

Well I’m going to try using the fans again and see how I get on this time. Thanks guys for the advice, I may try the rise bar too, it would obviously use more water but it’ll be interesting to see if I could clean quicker to compensate. 

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Davy G

The important thing as I say with fan jets is to keep the bristles touching, or no more than about 5-10 mm from the glass. CONTAIN THE SPRAY. Build that head of water with a couple of quick across and back swipes tight to the top frame and bring it down as a CONTINUOUS sheet just following the descending brush. WATCH FOR THIS IMPORTANT DETAIL, especially on hydrophobic glass. Use quick across and back swipes descending with the brush at a descent speed that doesn't quite outrun the curtain (sheet) of water). If you do outrun the curtain go back up a touch to pick it up again. On downstairs windows I sometimes hold the brush sideways as it makes a deeper so even faster curtain descent. The descent can be more simple on hydrophilic glass as the sheeting will be much better. In this case a simple letter Z on the rinse will usually suffice to continue the curtain, providing you make sure you have a good flow, start tight to the top frame and finish along the top of the bottom frame to make sure no dirt is left sitting on it before continuing down to finish the sill. 

 

I can't imagine doing a sustained speed of quicker than 20 - 30 seconds per wìndow or using less water and effort.

 

The devil is in the detail, once I start on the window the brush Never leaves the contact with any of it, frame or glass, so all the spray is contained. 

 

Don’t forget to swirl out the top corners of the glass during the agitation and once again at the start of the rinse to remove any spiders or their nests. There will be droppings on the lower frame as a marker if there are spiders above. Fish them out now before they breed. 

 

I probably will try a rinse bar at some time as it may well be a better method, though I will take some convincing. 🙂

Edited by Davy G

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Davy G
1 hour ago, Dirty dan said:

Well I’m going to try using the fans again and see how I get on this time. Thanks guys for the advice, I may try the rise bar too, it would obviously use more water but it’ll be interesting to see if I could clean quicker to compensate. 

Yeah, maybe try both and see which you prefer. 🙂

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paul alan
1 hour ago, Dirty dan said:

Well I’m going to try using the fans again and see how I get on this time. Thanks guys for the advice, I may try the rise bar too, it would obviously use more water but it’ll be interesting to see if I could clean quicker to compensate. 

The water comes out marginally quicker per minute, but the windows are cleaned in less time.

 

I find I can use up to a quarter tank less some days.

46 minutes ago, Davy G said:

The important thing as I say with fan jets is to keep the bristles touching, or no more than about 5-10 mm from the glass. CONTAIN THE SPRAY. Build that head of water with a couple of quick across and back swipes tight to the top frame and bring it down as a CONTINUOUS sheet just following the descending brush. WATCH FOR THIS IMPORTANT DETAIL, especially on hydrophobic glass. Use quick across and back swipes descending with the brush at a descent speed that doesn't quite outrun the curtain (sheet) of water). If you do outrun the curtain go back up a touch to pick it up again. On downstairs windows I sometimes hold the brush sideways as it makes a deeper so even faster curtain descent. The descent can be more simple on hydrophilic glass as the sheeting will be much better. In this case a simple letter Z on the rinse will usually suffice to continue the curtain, providing you make sure you have a good flow, start tight to the top frame and finish along the top of the bottom frame to make sure no dirt is left sitting on it before continuing down to finish the sill. 

 

I can't imagine doing a sustained speed of quicker than 20 - 30 seconds per wìndow or using less water and effort.

 

The devil is in the detail, once I start on the window the brush Never leaves the contact with any of it, frame or glass, so all the spray is contained. 

 

Don’t forget to swirl out the top corners of the glass during the agitation and once again at the start of the rinse to remove any spiders or their nests. There will be droppings on the lower frame as a marker if there are spiders above. Fish them out now before they breed. 

 

I probably will try a rinse bar at some time as it may well be a better method, though I will take some convincing. 🙂

If you master it the same way you have the fan jet I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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Davy G
31 minutes ago, paul alan said:

The water comes out marginally quicker per minute, but the windows are cleaned in less time.

 

I find I can use up to a quarter tank less some days.

If you master it the same way you have the fan jet I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

You've convinced me to give it a try. I'll have to wait for a while to run it by financial management though (da wife), as I've just today ordered some spares. ☺️

Edited by Davy G

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Dirty dan

I’m popping down to wcw on Monday for a rinse bar too, it’s handy I only live 2 miles away from them! 😂

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Nudel

I can confirm what @Davy G says also works for me, I clean the same way with 100° fan jets. For maintenance cleans, a quick scrub twice across top, then entire glass up and down, then I do the swivel motion to do a water curtain. Works on all types of glass.

 

Not every bristle type is good for rinsing on though. I prefer the Dupont brushes. The Xtreme brushes also excel at rinsing on, but it didn't agitate enough for all the salt I battle on my island windows.

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Pjj

I will probably be very controversial by saying I don't like fan jets I think they cause no end of problems spraying water everywhere bringing dirt onto the glass , don’t like rinse bars either find  they get damaged easily and hit the top of the lintels above the window , and get in the way on plastic cleans ,the ones in the centre of the brush hit the raised part of the window frames and get in the way on plastic cleans ,  we use 2mm pencil jets in all our brushes and never have any issues , doesn’t matter what type of glass it is it always rinses well same technique used hydrophobic glass might look strange with water droplets on the surface but it’s always dried ok . 

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Den

I used to use 100 degree fan jets but kept snapping them so went back to 2mm pencils both work well no preference over one or the other.

 

Since gardiner brought out the rinsebar imo they are the best for rinsing on the glass, I honestly think they are great and make working quicker, without contradicting myself I have temporarily removed them from my brushes due to one fact only is my tennis elbow as recently got worst so now using bare extremes brushes, as soon as my tennis elbow get better they will go straight back on my brushes. 

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Davy G
58 minutes ago, Pjj said:

I will probably be very controversial by saying I don't like fan jets I think they cause no end of problems spraying water everywhere bringing dirt onto the glass , don’t like rinse bars either find  they get damaged easily and hit the top of the lintels above the window , and get in the way on plastic cleans ,the ones in the centre of the brush hit the raised part of the window frames and get in the way on plastic cleans ,  we use 2mm pencil jets in all our brushes and never have any issues , doesn’t matter what type of glass it is it always rinses well same technique used hydrophobic glass might look strange with water droplets on the surface but it’s always dried ok . 

No mate, we're all entitled to our own preferences. 🙂👍

50 minutes ago, Den said:

I used to use 100 degree fan jets but kept snapping them so went back to 2mm pencils both work well no preference over one or the other.

 

Since gardiner brought out the rinsebar imo they are the best for rinsing on the glass, I honestly think they are great and make working quicker, without contradicting myself I have temporarily removed them from my brushes due to one fact only is my tennis elbow as recently got worst so now using bare extremes brushes, as soon as my tennis elbow get better they will go straight back on my brushes. 

Good luck with your tennis elbow mate. I had a touch of it in the summer of 1976. Not funny. 

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mike007
10 hours ago, Pjj said:

I will probably be very controversial by saying I don't like fan jets I think they cause no end of problems spraying water everywhere bringing dirt onto the glass , don’t like rinse bars either find  they get damaged easily and hit the top of the lintels above the window , and get in the way on plastic cleans ,the ones in the centre of the brush hit the raised part of the window frames and get in the way on plastic cleans ,  we use 2mm pencil jets in all our brushes and never have any issues , doesn’t matter what type of glass it is it always rinses well same technique used hydrophobic glass might look strange with water droplets on the surface but it’s always dried ok . 

Using wfp I always spend more time on hydrophobic glass rinsing...have to to ensure loose dirt is removed hopefully (use pencil jets) and can never be sure if there will be spotting....but have never had a complaint yet. Think it is the visual look after rinsing compared to the look you get with hydrophilic....but it dries spot free

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steff

Hi Lads , I have fan jets and pencil jets on all my brushes put them on myself . Then when you want either one for different jobs all you do is switch hose on brush to conn ect to small jg fittings 

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Dirty dan
2 hours ago, steff said:

Hi Lads , I have fan jets and pencil jets on all my brushes put them on myself . Then when you want either one for different jobs all you do is switch hose on brush to conn ect to small jg fittings 

I’ve got different brushes with different jets that only take a few seconds to twist off and change around, I was just curious if anyone actually used the two at the same time

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Davy G

Hi folks, I've been looking into rinse bars. 

 

I don't think they'll be viable for us at the moment because they use more water than the 100 degree fan jets. Our 650ltr tank often runs very low, even using these.

 

On one occasion last week we only managed to finish our last job of the day by dropping the front right wheel into a dip on the corner of a gravel drive to get the last drop out of the tank. We did over twenty jobs that day. Not an especially large number but most were large country houses with conservatories (some had two) and others had garden art studios, gyms etc. 

 

My son will be working on his own from December 3rd until at least mid January, while I'm in hospital for a major operation. He might try a rinse bar then as he'll have plenty water for a sole operator and it might well be slightly quicker.

 

I know he's sweet and happy with his kit and technique as is currently, so will take some persuading. 

Edited by Davy G

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paul alan

Tell him to have a quick look at this video, this how I clean windows. Note how I only do 2/3 of the movements you have to do with rinsing off. It does take some getting used to but not too long.

 

You just have to agitate in a way that the rinse follows where it must go, once you've got it down you'll have an easier life.

 

 

Edited by paul alan

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Den
57 minutes ago, Davy G said:

Hi folks, I've been looking into rinse bars. 

 

I don't think they'll be viable for us at the moment because they use more water than the 100 degree fan jets. Our 650ltr tank often runs very low, even using these.

 

On one occasion last week we only managed to finish our last job of the day by dropping the front right wheel into a dip on the corner of a gravel drive to get the last drop out of the tank. We did over twenty jobs that day. Not an especially large number but most were large country houses with conservatories (some had two) and others had garden art studios, gyms etc. 

 

My son will be working on his own from December 3rd until at least mid January, while I'm in hospital for a major operation. He might try a rinse bar then as he'll have plenty water for a sole operator and it might well be slightly quicker.

 

I know he's sweet and happy with his kit and technique as is currently, so will take some persuading. 

I personally use the low pressure rinsebar the flow rate is set at the same as using 100 degree fan jets.

@paul alan uses the normal rinsebar but he has the luxury of carrying more water than myself. Nice demo Paul 👍

Using the low pressure bar I still clean basically the same as Paul's video with great results 👍an important factor is the correct use of the swivel. 

 

 

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Dirty dan
56 minutes ago, paul alan said:

Tell him to have a quick look at this video, this how I clean windows. Note how I only do 2/3 of the movements you have to do with rinsing off. It does take some getting used to but not too long.

 

You just have to agitate in a way that the rinse follows where it must go, once you've got it down you'll have an easier life.

 

 

Thanks for this, awesome video. I’ll be getting one of these first thing Monday 👍

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Davy G

I could be wrong but it does look to me like you're using more movements, more effort, more water and more time than I do with the 100 degree fan jets and is slightly heavier. 

I expect you probably slowed it down a bit for your demo. A good video for sure. 

 

I also see that Squeeky Clean Dave has gone back to 100 degree fan jets after trialling two types of rinse bars for some time, from two different manufacturers. 

 

I will try a rinse bar at some time for sure. 🙂

Edited by Davy G

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tench0771

for me ive found pencles much beta tryed fans and allways hit problims with them there just not accerut enough 

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Davy G
1 hour ago, tench0771 said:

for me ive found pencles much beta tryed fans and allways hit problims with them there just not accerut enough 

All down to technique and staying against the glass. The key is to contain the water between the glass and the brush to avoid overspray, allowing a contained positive water pressure, aided by gravity, to flow down from the brush taking the dirt with it. I think where people are going wrong is that they are not doing this and instead are spraying water into the air, which, with the 100 degree fan jets will be an uncontrolled spray doing its own thing and nothing much useful. 🙂

Edited by Davy G

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paul alan
48 minutes ago, Davy G said:

All down to technique and staying against the glass. The key is to contain the water between the glass and the brush to avoid overspray, allowing a contained positive water pressure, aided by gravity, to flow down from the brush taking the dirt with it. I think where people are going wrong is that they are not doing this and instead are spraying water into the air, which, with the 100 degree fan jets will be an uncontrolled spray doing its own thing and nothing much useful. 🙂

 I get what your saying and have done what your saying in the past, but, it doesn't always work for me. You (I) get bristle tip water left on the glass which can dry dirty- sideway spotting. With the rinse bar the last thing to ever touch the glass is pure water.

 

Mate if you can work quicker than that with fan jets and leave no spotting on the glass then you "must" do a video for me to see. I am always looking to learn anything that makes work easier, faster, better quality.

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