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Martyn

Pricing past and present



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Potta81
3 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

No, no, please don't dread it. Spring into summer is a good time as the weather is warmer and the windows will dry quicker.

 

For me, stupidly stepping off my ladder at 1st story height when I thought I was on the ground was my warning shot. I was bruised and battered and in pain for weeks, but no bones broken. I have always struggled with back issues all my life, but they are much worse since this fall. Don't ask me to explain it, I can't. But as my son says, I'm the only one he has ever seen who can slip into a coma and still remain standing on my feet. When it happens I get through lots of water but don't seem to clean any windows. 😂

 

For me, its life saving because I would probably either be dead if I was still trad or have life changing injuries. Personally, you are doing the right thing. Yes its an expense and running a wfp system isn't cheap like trad is, but I would rather be alive in relative health than a vegetable.

 

Just saying it like I see it and not meaning to offend anyone.


yes it just shows u don’t have to be high to get injuries. Someone working with me around 10 years ago was cleaning a fsg off an A frame on a rubber garage roof. It was wet with green moss. He went up 2-3 rungs & it kicked out Landing on his side on the ladder bruising his ribs. Ended up haven’t a few days off. He was only a few feet from the edge of the roof as well. I made my mind up at the end of last year I was changing over.

id be changing sooner but we’re losing our garage to an extension that’s being started in May. So I won’t get it back to store an ibc until it’s finished, probably August! Like I said part of me is dreading it but I’m looking forward to it as well

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Martyn
2 hours ago, Potta81 said:

I’m changing over in the summer dreading it but can’t wait either!

Don't dread it, just do it, it'll be the best move you ever made.

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maxbruffell
9 minutes ago, Martyn said:

Don't dread it, just do it, it'll be the best move you ever made.


agreed, so happy I made the switch!! My income and business has grown exponentially!

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fast_muchly
On 28/11/2019 at 13:39, Pjj said:


 

why not invest in wfp much easier on the body especially if only doing estate type houses .

 

I was dreading somone asking this and im not going to answer it because all the WTP merchants wont like my answer lol .

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Martyn
4 minutes ago, fast_muchly said:

 

I was dreading somone asking this and im not going to answer it because all the WTP merchants wont like my answer lol .

Still some members of the flat earth society around I see. 😁

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fast_muchly
On 28/11/2019 at 19:00, laddergarder said:

I am trad, and it wouldn't take to quite as much as 30mins. But I would set about 30 mins to deal with it. Racking ladders off the van, doing the job. Dealing with the customer, packing up, driving or walking to the next job etc. 

 

I would honestly do about 2 of them and hour and be quite happy with that. Maybe I am slow. I have used wfp before and they are a bit faster on the job, but for me it doesn't suit. I wouldn't get parked near half my jobs for one. 

 

 

 

Spot on and if I went WFP on my round I would lose half my customers straight away ( puts his tin hat on ) im also happy with 2 properties an hour for this type of house .

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Pjj
2 hours ago, fast_muchly said:

 

I was dreading somone asking this and im not going to answer it because all the WTP merchants wont like my answer lol .

 

 

Everyone is entitled to there opinions, but you cannot condemn something you have never tried , I was trad and several friends went over to wfp , I argued with them for a couple of years saying I could get better results than them , eventually I went out with them for a day and quickly realised I didn’t know what I was talking about , the rest as they say is history.

Why do you think you would loose half your customers ??  I lost two out of 350 , one customer I cleaned her windows wfp for over two years she was always delighted with the results , but was never in when I did them , she was in one day on holiday and came out and went mental about the water in the wall and path ,I explained that I had been doing them this way for over two years and she was happy with the results , she said what I was doing was unacceptable,so I politely asked her who did she complain to when it rains ?. Did rain water hurt her house and path ?? Needless to say she didn’t see the funny side and is now an ex customer 😂😂😂, I very much doubt you would loose more than a handful at most , many probebly including you are afrade of change , I was when I swapped over knowing what I know now I should have done it years ago take the leap of faith you will never go back , I have gone from 350 to over 2500 customers and doing work that could never be done trad , easier working day and considerably better income 

Edited by Pjj

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Martyn

When I went WFP about 18 years ago it was a complete leap of faith, I had only vaguely heard about it from somewhere, I had never seen it in action and there were only a couple of businesses using it here. At that time I was not friendly with either of them so couldn't ask for info/help.

I was suffering severe skin problems with my hands and was very close to having to give up window cleaning.

I ordered a Reach & Wash system with a 12ft fibreglass pole and a 40ft fibreglass pole. (those poles were ****!)

I wrote to all my customers telling tham I was making the change and telling them the advantages, I didn't lose a single one.

Edited by Martyn
Typo

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laddergarder

I get some of you guys are big advocate for WFP. It is brilliant that the forum has guys/gals like you to advise others who want to take it up. But it seems to me that allot are very dismissive off and like to bash traditional window cleaning. 

(Probablly from selling it to your customers like that for so long IMO)

 

Its doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere to trad guys or newbies starting out using traditional methods. Because when they come on here for advice all they will get is buy a WFP. Which may not be good advise for them and where they are in business.

 

There is positive and negatives to both methods. I have used WFP, and its not a perfect method without its downsides. Nor is traditional.

 

Many of you who are now WFP made a living for a long time cleaning traditionally. Some of you for a few decades. So you can't honestly say it doesn't deserve its place as a respected method to clean windows professionally.

 

A joiner will still use a scew driver and hammer, even though he may have a nail gun and an electric drill. Both tools have a place in his/her arsenal. 

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Martyn

I wouldn't like to give the impression that I am knocking trad, I've still got a squeegy and enjoy using it occasionally, but I couldn't make enough money to survive with it.

Each of us is entitled to choose our own way and good luck to all.

 

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fast_muchly

To be honest I haven't tried WFP agreed  .

 

But I have 2 facts  Fact 1 is I have absolutely loads of customers who have sacked there WFP cleaner and would not employ another one for poor cleaning ,that's why they want a traditional Cleaner .

Fact 2 …….. I have personally walked up a road to inspect a said WFP cleaners work as he was only there around 5 mins ( front only though I will give him that ) and what I saw was shocking ( but this is one guy I admit , there are bad trad cleaners ) . There was a really big dollop of bird muck on that window and this guy had just taken the top off  and the stain was still on the window .

 

What I believe personally .

 

                                         No matter what you say or how you want to spin it you cant clean windows better than a tradional window cleaner end off . You cant get the pressure unless your at the window to clean the nasty bits off . Say what you want hot water clean blah blah blah . 

The ONLY thing WFP has over trad is being able to reach windows a trad cleaner cannot get to that's it end off and that's the place it has in the market  and obviously not falling off your ladders .

A lot of you WFP don't like admitting it cost you spent thousands on equipment and cant clean as well as getting close up and personal but you just don't want to admit it and hide behind scoffing at the old fashioned way . 

 

I agree you earn more as your faster so it also has that advantage but no way would I go WFP im happy cleaning them that little bit better .

 

P.s I didn't start this lol , someone did ask why I don't go WFP and im not going to lie and be polite . I also say this to WFP people who ask me why In the street ( afterall they did ask ) .

 

Not trying to offend or cause arguments but for me a lot of WFP think there the bees knees and they truly are NOT !!

Edited by fast_muchly

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Martyn

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong! 😁

 

In skilled hands WFP is every bit as good as trad can be and in my opinion better. Many of my customers in the early days told me that their windows were staying cleaner for longer.

 

Did it cost me thousands? Yes, but the payback is so worth it.

 

What WFP has suffered from is a lot of guys looking to make easy money and doing a sloppy job, often with that big brand logo on their van.

 

If you're happy with what you do and you're good at it I salute you!

 

I think all window cleaners should have trad skills, it's an important aspect of the business.

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Davy G
1 hour ago, laddergarder said:

I get some of you guys are big advocate for WFP. It is brilliant that the forum has guys/gals like you to advise others who want to take it up. But it seems to me that allot are very dismissive off and like to bash traditional window cleaning. 

(Probablly from selling it to your customers like that for so long IMO)

 

Its doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere to trad guys or newbies starting out using traditional methods. Because when they come on here for advice all they will get is buy a WFP. Which may not be good advise for them and where they are in business.

 

There is positive and negatives to both methods. I have used WFP, and its not a perfect method without its downsides. Nor is traditional.

 

Many of you who are now WFP made a living for a long time cleaning traditionally. Some of you for a few decades. So you can't honestly say it doesn't deserve its place as a respected method to clean windows professionally.

 

A joiner will still use a scew driver and hammer, even though he may have a nail gun and an electric drill. Both tools have a place in his/her arsenal. 

From my perspective, I have the greatest respect for anyone who goes out and works for a living, whatever they do. The harder they work to put food on the table the more I respect them.

My order of respect would be something like this : care workers and nurses, cleaners, dustmen, gardeners, trad window cleaners, wfp window cleaners, delivery drivers, posties. I respect them all certainly but the more one has to struggle to make a living the more empathy and respect I have for them.

 

The way I see it though in our trade is ; I can't see it being possible that trad from ladders is not far harder, slower, more risky and  dangerous than working from the ground with wfp. I can't see it being anywhere near as fast as wfp or as lucrative. My son and I working together strive for at least £2 a minute on the brush and mostly we are achieving closer to £3 a minute as a duo once we pull up on a job, and we can sustain that rate of speed for the whole day by working as a a highly efficient team. I'm nearly 64 and am still buzzing when I get home. I work like for like with my son and am actually slightly quicker. We service about six hundred properties, mostly six weekly working usually about six or seven hours, 5 days. I would not be able to manage this at my age if working with ladders. I would hold our quality of work as a match for anyone else's I've seen.

 

We've been passed work by trad guys,cutting down and we can see that our results have always been better (vents, crevices, sills, underneath sills). We can see from the customers faces that they also see the improvement.

 

I have never done trad, I wouldn't willingly work full time with wet, cold hands (I worked on pipelines and utilities for 20 years with cold wet hands for a lot of that time) or from ladders, for genuine health and safety reasons though I use them without hesitation for gutter emptying.

 

Full respect to you trad operators. From my point of view I just want to help folk prosper, safely. 🙂

 

Edited by Davy G

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Pjj
52 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

I get some of you guys are big advocate for WFP. It is brilliant that the forum has guys/gals like you to advise others who want to take it up. But it seems to me that allot are very dismissive off and like to bash traditional window cleaning. 

(Probablly from selling it to your customers like that for so long IMO)

 

Its doesn't create a very welcoming atmosphere to trad guys or newbies starting out using traditional methods. Because when they come on here for advice all they will get is buy a WFP. Which may not be good advise for them and where they are in business.

 

There is positive and negatives to both methods. I have used WFP, and its not a perfect method without its downsides. Nor is traditional.

 

Many of you who are now WFP made a living for a long time cleaning traditionally. Some of you for a few decades. So you can't honestly say it doesn't deserve its place as a respected method to clean windows professionally.

 

A joiner will still use a scew driver and hammer, even though he may have a nail gun and an electric drill. Both tools have a place in his/her arsenal. 

 

 

I started out trad , and was forced to go the wfp route or loose some of my best commercial work when the working at height regs came in , it was a case if change over or loose my most valuable jobs . I was very hesitant and doubted the quality of the finish with wfp , it is a sharp learning curve . 

There is no way you can do the volume of work or type of work trad that can be done wfp , and as for earnings wfp is a no brainier . 

I am not criticising anyone who is trad just saying wfp is the way ahead , the Ford model t was was the first motor car for the masses but we have moved forward with technology no one today would want one of them , trad is similar it still has its uses but the masses will go wfp , it’s safer ,easier, you can do more variety’s of jobs , earnings are many times more than trad , evan for ones starting out you can get up and running for a relatively cheap price especially if you buy second hand systems , I started with a couple of ladders ,bucket squeegee, mop cost a few hundred pounds , today I have 3 vans on the road , and could easily have another 3 without trying but Ime not interested in growing the buisness, I would never be in the position I am today if i stayed trad  , each to there own , Ime happy for ones to be trad as there us so many jobs that cannot be done that way there is more work for us 😂😂😂, but I won’t recommend it to newbies just on the health and safety grounds alone , I have seen people die falling from less than 5 feet , it’s simply not worth it , Ime not afrade of working at 3-4 storeys off ladders but I look back now at some of the jobs I used to do and think what an idiot I was ever doing it , why take unessasary risks .

As for the quality of the clean trad leaves detergent in the glass that’s sticky that attracts dirt , just using pure water there is no sticky residue the windows stay clean longer , you cannot clean the frames as well trad as with the pole , as in all jobs there are cowboys  that are wfp and cowboys that are trad , having used both methods for many years wfp is 100% better than trad , that’s not slating trad cleaners it’s just a scientific fact , which method people choose to use is up to them , but it is now very difficult to be an employer and expect staff to use ladders , just try getting insurance and see what it costs , many won’t cover you , the health and safety executive  states that ladders can be use but if a safer alternative is available it should be used , wfp would fit into that category, so if you have an accident and they investigate you will be asked some very awkward questions , if you doubt this just read the report on the window cleaner who worked for a multi national cleaning  company who died at st James palace owned by a member of the royal family , they got the book thrown at them , and a huge fine for disregarding the advice of the  HSE . 

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Part Timer
45 minutes ago, fast_muchly said:

To be honest I haven't tried WFP agreed  .

 

But I have 2 facts  Fact 1 is I have absolutely loads of customers who have sacked there WFP cleaner and would not employ another one for poor cleaning ,that's why they want a traditional Cleaner .

Fact 2 …….. I have personally walked up a road to inspect a said WFP cleaners work as he was only there around 5 mins ( front only though I will give him that ) and what I saw was shocking ( but this is one guy I admit , there are bad trad cleaners ) . There was a really big dollop of bird muck on that window and this guy had just taken the top off  and the stain was still on the window .

 

What I believe personally .

 

                                         No matter what you say or how you want to spin it you cant clean windows better than a tradional window cleaner end off . You cant get the pressure unless your at the window to clean the nasty bits off . Say what you want hot water clean blah blah blah . 

The ONLY thing WFP has over trad is being able to reach windows a trad cleaner cannot get to that's it end off and that's the place it has in the market  and obviously not falling off your ladders .

A lot of you WFP don't like admitting it cost you spent thousands on equipment and cant clean as well as getting close up and personal but you just don't want to admit it and hide behind scoffing at the old fashioned way . 

 

I agree you earn more as your faster so it also has that advantage but no way would I go WFP im happy cleaning them that little bit better .

 

P.s I didn't start this lol , someone did ask why I don't go WFP and im not going to lie and be polite . I also say this to WFP people who ask me why In the street ( afterall they did ask ) .

 

Not trying to offend or cause arguments but for me a lot of WFP think there the bees knees and they truly are NOT !!

I actually clean one job, 3 stories, where the traditional guy can't reach the third floor. He cleans the first 2 floors every 2 weeks and I do the top floor once a month. Every 3 months she asks me to clean the whole house because it cleans the windows properly. She only keeps him because he's been her window cleaner for 15 years. 

At the end of the day we're all working lads and can think whichever way we clean windows is best. What isn't in question is no matter what way you clean windows is if you're a cowboy you'll do a bad job and within 5 years using ladders will be banned on H&S grounds, legally it already is. 

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Potta81

I’m moving to wfp in the summer, It all boils down to safety in my thinking. I currently have a helper but if I didn’t in the winter months I’d be missing out houses or leaving windows where I needed footing etc. Wfp will eliminate this problem where I’m 100% safe. I’m nearly 40 now, while that might not be “old” it’s made me think more about making things safer & hopefully easier. There’s definitely a place for trad & people who want to do it it’s obviously fine. My old gaffer is wfp & around 8-10 years ago he advised me to move over to which I replied yeah I’ll look into it. I had no intention really as I thought how can it possibly do as good a job? I saw him around 6 months ago & told him I’m moving to wfp & he let me look at the windows he’d cleaned on a house half an hour earlier a few doors down & i couldn’t find a mark on them. He said even the customers who didn’t want wfp now prefer it to trad like so many have said on here. It’s an each to there own kind of thing, in the right hands they both get the windows clean!

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laddergarder

@Pjj @Davy G I didn't say I want repect. I said tradittional window cleaning as a method deserves repect. Ie not bashed to make your point that WFP is good. You dont see a guy with a drill, slagging off a guy using a screw driver. They both have there benifits. 

"Your going to take your finger off one of these days", "aye but mind wont run of off charge and I can fit mine in my pocket". Ludicrous argument.

 

My point is if its a street with no parking,  half a dozen small bottom flats. I am tradding it, wfp or not. If I am working in the town doing shop's, there is no parking, allot of people around. I am not getting a hose out. Working on craddles or harnesses on large comercials, they use a squeegee.

 

If its a large house easy parking lots of windows(thats not wooden), and I have a  wfp, sure I would prefer WFP. If its large victorian sandstone biulding huge leaded windows. WFP all the way. Large commercial lots of big slabs of glass everywhere, perfect. 

 

They are both good methods. Nothing is perfect. You use the best tool for the job. Which is not always WFP, and if your going to spend 2k on a peice of equipment, it has to be a justified and suitable investment. Which will be different for everyone of us.

 

Most in my town are traditional window cleaners. There is one guy who uses Wfp, but on domestic, they only use it for dormas etc. Because there is usually 3 or 4 of them to a van.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by laddergarder

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Iron Giant
On 28/11/2019 at 12:34, fast_muchly said:

 

That's what I did I charged the new walk ups asking me if I would do them £10 , I wasn't bothered if they walked away as im not under pressure my round is full . So after a few accepted £10 I thought this is getting difficult as neighbours talk ( exactly same house know what  I mean ) so next April 6th I put them all up to same amount in 2 years I will hike them up again to £12 .

 

At the moment though round is full and age im at im mindfull of my knees ( ladderwork ) so im not so much after the houses, more the gold dust bungalows and taking my private pension around 55-58 years old and drop all my houses and keep the bungalows on .


I would have thought that a £4 increase over 3 years on a average 4 bed house would be hard for most to swallow

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fast_muchly
8 hours ago, Part Timer said:

I actually clean one job, 3 stories, where the traditional guy can't reach the third floor. He cleans the first 2 floors every 2 weeks and I do the top floor once a month. Every 3 months she asks me to clean the whole house because it cleans the windows properly. She only keeps him because he's been her window cleaner for 15 years. 

At the end of the day we're all working lads and can think whichever way we clean windows is best. What isn't in question is no matter what way you clean windows is if you're a cowboy you'll do a bad job and within 5 years using ladders will be banned on H&S grounds, legally it already is. 

 

Im sorry but this one especially made me chuckle .

 

Have you ever considered that she only keeps you to do the top windows he cant reach and tells you that comment to get all the frames done without wounding your pride . Thinkabout it who keeps on 2 window cleaners . I will tell you what she thinks she thinks the trad man does the  actual panes better but keeps you on for the top windows and cleaning once In a while the whole UPVC .

 

Im not going to carry on arguing on here as its pointless , your all convinced you have a better way because you have spent thousands on equipment . The FACT is you don't clean the panes as good as a trad man does FACT !! .

 

Personally I will also give way on you prob clean the vents on top of windows better ( but customer isn't looking thru them are they )  , I do clean round the upvc , IF it starts to collect dirt if a customer particularly asked me to do it I would charge a lot more ( TIME ) to do it .

 

As a tradder its the panes , detailing , sills ( which you lot all leave wet through ) and you cant even see the damn sills to know if there clean that are above your head . I will give an extra wipe around the window on the upvc where I see dirt collecting , which a WFP cleaner will wash the whole window by that I mean all the upvc or SHOULD DO . 

 

But when we are talking about Pane and Sill you CANNOT beat us .

 

Im not lying when I say this I have umpteen customers who have sacked the WFP guy because he DIDNT clean the windows propery and they will flatly refuse another one absolutely loads . If your all honest you wont be able to say that the other way around .

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fast_muchly

This all reminds me of that TV program where there spending loads on food thinking that just because there going to Sainsburys instead of ALDI  there getting better stuff for it . 

And they prove it by swapping stuff around for a lot cheaper alternatives and then making them eat it for a week coming back and revealing what  food is still the same and what food they have swapped out .

 

Its just like that , your all trying to convince yourself you haven't wasted your money , you haven't wasted your money , you don't climb ladders ( you made that choice ) ,your a lot faster you earn more ( you made that choice ) , But you don't clean windows the best ( YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ) so live with it .

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Wind o kleen
3 minutes ago, fast_muchly said:

This all reminds me of that TV program where there spending loads on food thinking that just because there going to Sainsburys instead of ALDI  there getting better stuff for it . 

And they prove it by swapping stuff around for a lot cheaper alternatives and then making them eat it for a week coming back and revealing what  food is still the same and what food they have swapped out .

 

Its just like that , your all trying to convince yourself you haven't wasted your money , you haven't wasted your money , you don't climb ladders ( you made that choice ) ,your a lot faster you earn more ( you made that choice ) , But you don't clean windows the best ( YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ) so live with it .

School breaks over back into class kids 🛎 

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scottish cleaning service

You can't comment regarding wfp if you have no experience doing it. All you end up saying is what some folk have told you and they usually know nothing about it. For first cleans trad will win hands down on the glass but wfp will win on the frames. I wfp a first clean then go up and trad the glass with my scraper. It will take an hour or so but that's it done and I don't need to do it again.

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fast_muchly
1 minute ago, scottish cleaning service said:

You can't comment regarding wfp if you have no experience doing it. All you end up saying is what some folk have told you and they usually know nothing about it. For first cleans trad will win hands down on the glass but wfp will win on the frames. I wfp a first clean then go up and trad the glass with my scraper. It will take an hour or so but that's it done and I don't need to do it again.

 

Oh my god 

You have just backed up everything I am saying .

Why then do you go up on a first clean and do it trad if WFP is better WHY …..cant believe you have just said that lol . 

 

And I don't need to do it its common sense , you cant put the pressure on a pane upstairs a trad man can , you cant even see thedamn sills that a trad man can up your ladders . And surely a customers comment when your being employed by a walk up who has sacked the WFP person has some sort of weight to it that tells you why. 

 

When a customers says this to me having just sacked a WFP guy I actually stick up for your guys . I do say I don't want to get into it but I know where your coming from and leave it at that . I don't pend hours bashing you guys we all have a living to make and I can see why you all do it believe me . But what I don't like is the lack of respect .

 

Your all happy to say oh look theres the poor trad guy " a busy fool poor bloke he aint wised up lol and he don't clean as well as me either , why don't you use WFP  " but respect to him .

 

When infact what you should be saying bloody hell hats off to ya mate you do a better job but Im a lot faster and safer . 

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Iron Giant
10 minutes ago, fast_muchly said:

This all reminds me of that TV program where there spending loads on food thinking that just because there going to Sainsburys instead of ALDI  there getting better stuff for it . 

And they prove it by swapping stuff around for a lot cheaper alternatives and then making them eat it for a week coming back and revealing what  food is still the same and what food they have swapped out .

 

Its just like that , your all trying to convince yourself you haven't wasted your money , you haven't wasted your money , you don't climb ladders ( you made that choice ) ,your a lot faster you earn more ( you made that choice ) , But you don't clean windows the best ( YOU MADE THAT CHOICE ) so live with it .


I know I haven't wasted my money because I do a full and through clean first time every time and have 100's of happy clients I have been in business almost 20 years and have done both methods so I know full well of the pros and cons of both if someone chooses not to do a proper job

I also haven't wasted my money as I know, I am no longer at risk of another fall and potentially putting myself at risk of spending the rest of my life in wheelchair, which I came very close to over 17 years ago, most of us that are shouting up for wfp have been in this industry for 10 years and well beyond and have a great deal of experience in this industry

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scottish cleaning service

I do it so I can scrap any paint off the glass or anything else that the brush won't remove. After that its just a scrub with the brush and a rinse down. I wouldn't worry about it, whatever one prefers and you go with it. 

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fast_muchly

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

 

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

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mike007

Surprising debate between Trad and WFP. And surprising too the amount of WFP guys who have never done Trad!!.As a professional window cleaner (do it full time as a business) I am good at both. I WFP upstair windows  to avoid using ladders but still use ladders at appropriate times(using my common sense H&S assesments) and Trad downstairs.

I think a more thorough job is done when you are up,  close and personal with the window doing Trad as some others have already stated.

WFP is quicker,needs less experience and easier to master, which is why so many are just setting up using this system and why many customers get a raw deal by many operators who are just out to make "easy" money. Problem with this forum is that the WFP guys on here are proffesional in their working practices and mainly do a good job and ignore the amount of slap dash guys using their water fed poles and doing a bad job because  they are using WFP and WFP is good!!.

Similarly the "beer token" brigade with Trad gives Trad a bad name.

I KNOW I am slower using my method, but I again KNOW if I am doing a house, and a WFP guy is doing the next one and a neighbour across the road is looking and wanting a window cleaner, they will see the WFP guys time he takes, and the time I take...and I will get the enquiry.

 

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scottish cleaning service
2 minutes ago, fast_muchly said:

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

 

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

 

You might find you are friendless now on this site. Even if someone mention a soap powder you might begin an arguement. Maybe a course in anger management will do you the world of good.

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mike007
6 minutes ago, fast_muchly said:

O.k im signing out of this argument now so wont reply to any more no matter how irritating .

 

Slight change of subject to show im still learning lol.

Been using scrim for detailing and microfibre for wetting top postage stamp windows . But scrims all wearing out after 7 years so I have gone 80cm x 60 cm Microfibre …………..and oh my god ………..love it it ……………..will never use scrim again ! . 

 

Was a little nervous of spending the money on 30 cloths and them not working but really pleased .

Asking advice whats the best way of getting degrading seals marks out of the microfibre the nasty black marks any special way or just bung it in the wash cycle on a quick wash or long was without detergent or with detergent .

Appreciate replies even from WFP guys who have prob fell out with me lol .

I disagree, scrim is best, microfibre get wet too quickly i find.

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fast_muchly
10 minutes ago, mike007 said:

I disagree, scrim is best, microfibre get wet too quickly i find.

 

That was my big worry Mike but im finding it doesn't but I am using a Moerman as well so less to mop up .

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