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Martyn

Pricing past and present



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Iron Giant

As we have gone down the climate change route, first off we have no doubt seen thousands of litres of rain this year, yet no new reservoir's built or planned, yet they have talked about a future water crisis, Yet do not doubt we are plunging into an abyss regarding massive impact on our planet we are wiping out the lungs of our planet in the Amazon 1000's of species are being wiped out every year 

But hey ho, it's okay as long as us and our planet and our 1000's of year's of evolutionary species that have adapted  are being wiped out, for the masses it's no real consequence or worry as along as we are happy and fed, people need too really wake up and recognise we are really in the 💩 , If I had to live a really simple life moving forward I and my wife most absolutely would happily, over the sacrifice of us wiping out nature and animals on our lands and in our ocean's, It was their's long before our's!! 

Self preservation is a pile of hacky sacks, the world is over populated, and what the masses may have once being in touch with and respected is long gone, Rant over, half a bottle of port and some beers, but my belief's still stand peace out!!

Edited by Iron Giant
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THL4KEL

The root cause of the problem is greedy governments, they put into place legislation for companies to work around i.e. materials/components they can use to manufacture products. Products that are polluting eco systems globally. This backed up with companies who constantly need every year to show increases of profits to shareholders.

 

Roll the clock back forty years most households were lucky to have a car, a new one wasn't required every year, same with phones you had a landline people didn't need a new iPhone every year.

 

Milk was delivered in glass bottles via an electric milk truck, packaging was more paper based...

 

A lot of it comes down to the fact of how credit/debt has been given to the masses which is funding the constant purchasing of new products. Most of the time it's for a product i.e smart phone with a pathetic upgrade i.e three cameras in a phone. But thanks to marketing experts/media no one is happy with what they have..

 

Ask yourself who allowed us all to have this access  debt...

 

Another factor helping to increase profits for food manufacturers is plastic packing, prolonging the life of food so Tesco/Asda ect can sell products for longer, that backed up with filling the food with trans fats to increase its shelf life.. Everytime an Amazon package turns up how much waste is associated with each purchase just so that they reduce damage if goods.

 

Governments need to tackle the problem and getting Joe blogs to buy a plastic bag for 5p or even a quid is not the solution. Neither is getting motorists to buy a new electric motor full of plastic parts which is powered by fossil fuels/nuclear from a power station the answer either.

 

Great how the rich keep get richer thanks to global warming. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Window Cleaning Dublin

The pricing is changing every year for us. The state is keep increasing the rate per hour so we need to recover our costs from the customers. Is not easy to explain a customer why a job that was 75 euro last year, is 85 euro this year. But after each budget, the diesel goes up by 2-4 cents per L, universal charge goes up, tolls up, etc.

 

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dazmond
On 30/11/2019 at 14:24, Haz said:

LOL at the Trad vs WFP Debate 😄

I started off with WFP and the only time i do trad is on internal cleans and a few external shop fronts other then that we are 99.9% WFP 😄

My prices are the same as they were in 2012 when i had first started up..... a price increase to my 2000+ customer base would see us lose a lot of customers which i can not afford! so can not see myself putting my prices up for a long time.

I know some people underprice and some are average and some are sky high... i class myself average piced in my area im not the most expensivest or cheapest either.

The problem with WFP is that everyone is now jumping on the bandwagon and a WFP system is available cheap, a lot of window cleaners prices do vary from one another, one person may charge £5.00 for a 3 bedroom house and another window cleaner in the same area will be charging £18.00 !!!

The difference is crazy... but the people who charge heavy prices will feel the hit in the next decade that we are going into... WHY ? ? ? ?

* People will be shopping about with window cleaners just like they do with phone contracts / insurance etc
* People do not care at this present time about there window cleaning price but in the next decade you will see people change window cleaner just for the price, the economy will be changing heavy in the next decade and the window cleaning industry will be a lot more competitive in the next decade.
* WFP is not a skilled trade - its on the same level as a car wash, car washes are now at rock bottom charging rock bottom prices and window cleaning will follow in them steps.
* We have customers who are pretty old and they will come and tell us... "oh i had a window cleaner offering it for cheaper but i told him to sod off"  the older generation has a lot of loyalty but the generations as they go along decade by decade the loyalty gets lesser and lesser.... in this day and age loyalty is a dying culture.
* You will get window cleaning companies competiting with each other just like Asda and Tescos compete with each other.


I suggest u all be prepared for the above because that will turn in to reality... we are about to enter a new decade and times are changing fast 😉

That above is the reason i can not up my prices 😄

I bet those window cleaners who charge £25.00 for a 3 bedroom semi house will be saddened by this post 😞 sorry guys but you should all be prepared for the next decade 😛 lol ❤️

people do not switch window cleaners like they do with gas/electricity providers......if you price fair and do a good job you wont be losing work very often.....its also hard to find a good reliable cleaner...once people do they dont tend to change to someone they dont know...its also about trust around their property......

 

not increasing prices is foolish...we all need to raise prices from time to time due to inflation...most customers understand this....

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scottish cleaning service

I do one house on an estate with 4 and 5 bed detached houses. Woman text me today saying another 2 neighbours want their windows cleaned. I was travelling 8 miles to do one but now its 3 at £15 a time. Might end up with more because the last guy moved down south. There must be about 30 odd houses at around £300k so it will be worth my while now.

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scottish cleaning service
1 hour ago, dazmond said:

I suggest u all be prepared for the above because that will turn in to reality... we are about to enter a new decade and times are changing fast 😉

 

@Haz How do you know all this? Are you related to mystic meg? 🤣

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dazmond
1 hour ago, scottish cleaning service said:

I do one house on an estate with 4 and 5 bed detached houses. Woman text me today saying another 2 neighbours want their windows cleaned. I was travelling 8 miles to do one but now its 3 at £15 a time. Might end up with more because the last guy moved down south. There must be about 30 odd houses at around £300k so it will be worth my while now.

this is how you build your round up.....soon you ll be banging out all 3 in a hour on regular cleans for £45...happy days...👍.

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Haz
3 hours ago, dazmond said:

people do not switch window cleaners like they do with gas/electricity providers......if you price fair and do a good job you wont be losing work very often.....its also hard to find a good reliable cleaner...once people do they dont tend to change to someone they dont know...its also about trust around their property......

 

not increasing prices is foolish...we all need to raise prices from time to time due to inflation...most customers understand this....


Yes @dazmond people do not switch like gas & electricity your right.... but in the next decade they will start to do that. Thats my opinion i can see window cleaning becoming competitive, each household will receive inviatation to switch window cleaning providers by 3/4 other companys in each area, this is how the market will become , i get like 5 different takeaway menus in my post and people will soon receive 3/4 different window cleaning offers in the post , some people will change but if they get a special offer for them to get £20.00 cash or something they will then go for it.

I seen a local window cleaner offering to clean windows free for 6 months if they switch the window cleaner lol so this is like happening now never mind in the next decade, the next 3-4 years is huge, everything will change and window cleaning will not be like what it used to be trust me mate.

Car washes years ago used to be a good business but in every town now they are run by european/kurdish who have low rock bottom prices, now all it takes is for them lot to buy a WFP system, start door knocking and offer rock bottom prices just like they do with car washes, and they can take over in quantity. 

Cheap WFP systems are easily available on the market and a lot of people are now looking into window cleaning so the market will become competitive in the next decade , no doubt.

 

Edited by Haz

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Haz
2 hours ago, scottish cleaning service said:

 

@Haz How do you know all this? Are you related to mystic meg? 🤣


Lol u will be saying to yourself in a number of years....FCCUUKK.... that person on the forum was right ? 😉 lol 

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Suhrly
42 minutes ago, Haz said:


Yes @dazmond people do not switch like gas & electricity your right.... but in the next decade they will start to do that. Thats my opinion i can see window cleaning becoming competitive, each household will receive inviatation to switch window cleaning providers by 3/4 other companys in each area, this is how the market will become , i get like 5 different takeaway menus in my post and people will soon receive 3/4 different window cleaning offers in the post , some people will change but if they get a special offer for them to get £20.00 cash or something they will then go for it.

I seen a local window cleaner offering to clean windows free for 6 months if they switch the window cleaner lol so this is like happening now never mind in the next decade, the next 3-4 years is huge, everything will change and window cleaning will not be like what it used to be trust me mate.

Car washes years ago used to be a good business but in every town now they are run by european/kurdish who have low rock bottom prices, now all it takes is for them lot to buy a WFP system, start door knocking and offer rock bottom prices just like they do with car washes, and they can take over in quantity. 

Cheap WFP systems are easily available on the market and a lot of people are now looking into window cleaning so the market will become competitive in the next decade , no doubt.

 

 

I disagree, respectfully, on quite a bit of what you say here. While I can see where you're coming from I think it will probably only apply to big towns and cities. I would like to think or more aptly, hope, that my customers (and other window cleaners customers) will be loyal. I know I've already had many of my customers say, 'there was a new window cleaner around here asking for custom but I told him I was happy with you'. To which I was very appreciative of. And I know when I was first starting out and knocking doors, many people were loyal to their current window cleaner. And good for them. I think, as you put it, if people from my neck of the woods had 'european/kurdish' guys knocking on their door they'd be VERY wary. (Hope that doesn't sound racist in any way, just being real).

 

Like I said at the beginning, I think the townies and city people will be different. I may be being very presumptuous with that statement but hey ho, so be it.

 

I honestly hope everything you said you'll be wrong as I wouldn't like to see things change for the solo guy (like me). We'll see I guess 🙂

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Window Cleaning Dublin

15 pounds per 3 bed house? But how do people make a profit at that rate? I charge 75 euro for a 3 bed house - in and out, 1 hour. People would be worry if i charge 15 pounds (18 euro). I have insurance, office, diesel, etc.

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Haz
7 hours ago, Suhrly said:

 

I disagree, respectfully, on quite a bit of what you say here. While I can see where you're coming from I think it will probably only apply to big towns and cities. I would like to think or more aptly, hope, that my customers (and other window cleaners customers) will be loyal. I know I've already had many of my customers say, 'there was a new window cleaner around here asking for custom but I told him I was happy with you'. To which I was very appreciative of. And I know when I was first starting out and knocking doors, many people were loyal to their current window cleaner. And good for them. I think, as you put it, if people from my neck of the woods had 'european/kurdish' guys knocking on their door they'd be VERY wary. (Hope that doesn't sound racist in any way, just being real).

 

Like I said at the beginning, I think the townies and city people will be different. I may be being very presumptuous with that statement but hey ho, so be it.

 

I honestly hope everything you said you'll be wrong as I wouldn't like to see things change for the solo guy (like me). We'll see I guess 🙂


@Suhrly as you mention loyalty this is what i said one of my posts earlier...

* We have customers who are pretty old and they will come and tell us... "oh i had a window cleaner offering it for cheaper but i told him to sod off"  the older generation has a lot of loyalty but the generations as they go along decade by decade the loyalty gets lesser and lesser.... in this day and age loyalty is a dying culture.

The younger generation does not have loyalty like the older class.

Why would be people be "wary" about them being Kurdish/European ? what difference will it make if they are English ? none to me.. lol

Im asian and have a pakistani ethnic background... i think it has helped me in my business to be fair 😄 and when i first had started up people used to tell me no one wants pak* window cleaner 🤣 so nah mate race plays no part in it in my eyes wether an english person knocks on the door or a kurdish geeza it makes no difference to me.

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mike007
5 minutes ago, Window Cleaning Dublin said:

15 pounds per 3 bed house? But how do people make a profit at that rate? I charge 75 euro for a 3 bed house - in and out, 1 hour. People would be worry if i charge 15 pounds (18 euro). I have insurance, office, diesel, etc.

It is what the individual customer is willing to pay for having their windows cleaned....they are not interested about helping pay for their window cleaner to have a new van,diesel, insurance etc. they just want their windows cleaned.

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Skxawng
1 hour ago, Window Cleaning Dublin said:

15 pounds per 3 bed house? But how do people make a profit at that rate? I charge 75 euro for a 3 bed house - in and out, 1 hour. People would be worry if i charge 15 pounds (18 euro). I have insurance, office, diesel, etc.

It's a bit different in Ireland from what a friend who cleaned windows over there told me. They usually aren't cleaned as frequently or even on a regular schedule and they're usually a more in depth clean (as in, you're doing the insides too). Also a lot of driving about. A bit more like how people are here with gutter cleaning. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

The upshot is that you can't get as many houses done in a day so you have to charge more.

I have a compact round of very similar houses to the one posted for comparison earlier and I'm actually charging £9 each 4 weekly (external only, would be £27 for insides also) I can do 6 an hour or 4 if I'm taking it easy so manage about 30 houses in a fairly easy day. If they were more spread out and cleaned less frequently then I'd be charging more but as it happens, I'm at the high end of pricing in my area anyway. 

So at £15 I would be making a very respectable profit but I'd only win less than 15-20% of my quotes. I know that because my round is nearly full now so I've put prices up to £12 and only get 1 in 4 accepted.

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dazmond
9 hours ago, Haz said:


Lol u will be saying to yourself in a number of years....FCCUUKK.... that person on the forum was right ? 😉 lol 

doom and gloom merchant.......😀

 

you seem to think that younger people have no loyalty which is absolute rubbish....they will not jump ship just because another window cleaner comes knocking on their door just because their a pound or two cheaper(if you already do a good job for a fair price and are reliable)......

 

people in general DONT LIKE CHANGE!...esp when it comes to window cleaners...i work mainly affluent areas and i find the more money/possessions they have,the more wary they are of people on their property.....they will absolutely NOT change to a window cleaner they dont know once you ve built up trust and reliability...your scaremongering IMO....😁

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Martyn

Anyone with an ounce of common sense is going to be wary of who they allow on their property and that should work in favour of the professional window cleaner, especially if one or two get bitten by dodgy types and word goes round on social media.

That said I'm glad I've only got ten years to go, if things do get that competetive it'll be no place for an old guy.

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Skxawng

🤔 I think @Haz is secretly working on www.comparethewindowcleaner.com 😁 Things are going that way though. Years ago, windys would do the majority of a street and the people who lived there had little choice as it was so difficult to find a new one. Now, the modern round seems to involve a lot more driving around and quoting customers from miles in all directions so I think competition is more of a thing than it used to be.

However, predictions and guesses of how the future will pan out consistently fall short compared to how things actually turn out. Or completely fail to see massive changes in the way things are done.

So I think it'll be a long time still before people are shopping around on comparison sites for window cleaners.

Edited by Skxawng

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Pjj
10 hours ago, Haz said:


Yes @dazmond people do not switch like gas & electricity your right.... but in the next decade they will start to do that. Thats my opinion i can see window cleaning becoming competitive, each household will receive inviatation to switch window cleaning providers by 3/4 other companys in each area, this is how the market will become , i get like 5 different takeaway menus in my post and people will soon receive 3/4 different window cleaning offers in the post , some people will change but if they get a special offer for them to get £20.00 cash or something they will then go for it.

I seen a local window cleaner offering to clean windows free for 6 months if they switch the window cleaner lol so this is like happening now never mind in the next decade, the next 3-4 years is huge, everything will change and window cleaning will not be like what it used to be trust me mate.

Car washes years ago used to be a good business but in every town now they are run by european/kurdish who have low rock bottom prices, now all it takes is for them lot to buy a WFP system, start door knocking and offer rock bottom prices just like they do with car washes, and they can take over in quantity. 

Cheap WFP systems are easily available on the market and a lot of people are now looking into window cleaning so the market will become competitive in the next decade , no doubt.

 


 

lol I don’t think si , yes others will canvas your work , and you will lose a few hear and there that’s a fact of life but cleaning free for 6 months what a load of rubbish , no one will do that , we are all in it to make money that’s not sustainable, we do some very and I mean very expensive  commercial work and will do odd bits as extras as a gesture of good will but not clean for free , no company can do that and stay in business, also with electricity who ever you get it from the supply is the same , window cleaning it’s not most will stay with there current cleaner beacause they trust them and know they will do a good job , I have customers that I know ime 3x the price that they have been quoted by others but they stick with us for the reasons already mentioned , cheap isn’t always best value for money . 

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THL4KEL

Switching gas electricity internet is nothing but a huge PIA and by the time you have switched over and all the costs involved with leaving providers it isnt really worth the hassle. . 

 

My Mrs changed it all about six months ago and I would not let her do it again. The internet she switched over  to (Post Office) is terrible, the connection is constantly dropping out.. I ended up paying the old providers a lump sum which was unexpected as well.

 

Most people just dont the have time to penny pinch and if they do and it all messes up, well like myself I would prefer to stick with something relatively reliable. 

 

I could switch motor insurance and save a few quid but in reality can I be bothered to have to send in all the documents/obtain NC cert, have to trawel through these ridiculous online self service kiosks to obtain the relevent information, send multiple emails because they rarely work these systems.

 

No I can't be bothered because the saving is fractional when you work it out through the year. 

 

So the I cannot see the vast majority of people being bothered to change window cleaner.  Yes you will see new outfits springing up and offering to clean for six months free, six months down the line will they still be operating I doubt it. It's the same with Groupon and running a offer, you would just get overwhelmed and burnt out delivering a service priced low..

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Iron Giant
On 03/12/2019 at 07:20, Window Cleaning Dublin said:

15 pounds per 3 bed house? But how do people make a profit at that rate? I charge 75 euro for a 3 bed house - in and out, 1 hour. People would be worry if i charge 15 pounds (18 euro). I have insurance, office, diesel, etc.


£15 for a 3 bed house is on the high side for a lot of the uk for an external window clean once every 4 weeks, I am guessing you don't do in's and out's as regular as we over here, also I believe the cost of living, insurance etc is quite a bit more expensive than over here.

Edited by Iron Giant

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Iron Giant
8 hours ago, Skxawng said:

🤔 I think @Haz is secretly working on www.comparethewindowcleaner.com 😁 Things are going that way though. Years ago, windys would do the majority of a street and the people who lived there had little choice as it was so difficult to find a new one. Now, the modern round seems to involve a lot more driving around and quoting customers from miles in all directions so I think competition is more of a thing than it used to be.

However, predictions and guesses of how the future will pan out consistently fall short compared to how things actually turn out. Or completely fail to see massive changes in the way things are done.

So I think it'll be a long time still before people are shopping around on comparison sites for window cleaners.


I am with you on this as in the town I cover lads are travelling from far and wide because of the 100's of houses that have been built and 100's more too come, whether it be sole operator or someone looking to expand and have multiple vans also of course there is far more coming into the industry, both these factors play a part in how things are now and are going to be.

I remember being emailed by bidvine every once in a while, no doubt these services work, but are they just for those looking for a one off the cheapest quote, I had someone phone me last week, they told me they were ringing around for the most competitive quote, I took it as they wanted the cheapest price, no such look with me when I quote double for a first clean and most likely the most expensive 😀

 

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Haz


Lads what u have to realize is 20 years ago car washes were a lucrative business just like window cleaning is today and then the euoropeans and kurdish/afghan came over and took over... knocked the prices low and they now have people slaving in car washes offering rock bottom prices , i am not talking about detailing... i am talking about car washes (wash and go), outside wash - £5.00 in and out is £10.00

It is now more easy to start a window cleaning business then it is to pitch your own car wash  i can honestly see a higher number of wfp vans in the next few years meaning more competition with one another, does not bother me but its the way i think the market is going to go.

WFP systems are available cheap now and there is also people starting up offering UPVC cleaning aswell as conservatory valets and fascia/soffits etc at rock bottom prices i have seen it with my own eyes...conservatory roofs for £40.00 etc  this will only get worse as WFP systems are easily available.

If im charging £20.00 for a house and one of my customers gets 2/3  leaflets offering the same service for £12.00 then its not going to look good on me, makes it look like im ripping them off.

When i first started out i was driving a lot but now our work is very compact where we have 15/16 houses on 1 road we do still drive a bout but not as much as we have 2,000 + customers all within 12 miles. The longer u are trading for the more compact your work becomes.
 

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ks789

All I know is theres been enough undercutting in all lines of work. It encourages bosses etc to want cheaper labour etc if they can get it. Cant say its done any good for joe public trying to earn a decent wage.

If I started losing much work to cut price outfits, I couldnt guarantee the safety of their stuff.

Thats all

ta ta.

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THL4KEL

If the immigration service raided all these car washes and clamped down on illegals working there would the prices stay the same? 

 

Sooner or later there will be a clamp down on them.

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Haz
1 hour ago, ks789 said:

All I know is theres been enough undercutting in all lines of work. It encourages bosses etc to want cheaper labour etc if they can get it. Cant say its done any good for joe public trying to earn a decent wage.

If I started losing much work to cut price outfits, I couldnt guarantee the safety of their stuff.

Thats all

ta ta.


Theres no such thing as undercutting its called competition all businesses have it,  ! I was doing a house for £12.00 and got "undercut" by £2.00 but the "undercutter" done me a favour because he is taking all my unloyal customers :D  im after loyalty and if someone cancels me because they got a cheaper price i thank the other window cleaner for taking a bad customer of my books ;)

I dont understand how people will work for £20/£30 a day its shocking, thats what i would pay my 13 year old cousin for helping me drop a few leaflets or something 😀

Cut price outfits will be coming in every town/city in the UK in the next few years with WFP system prices being cheap, u can see it, theres 1 man WFP unsigned vans all over doing standard 3 bed new build for £4/5 already, a lot more are yet to venture in to WFP cleaning , u just got to plod on and keep at it

 

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Haz
1 hour ago, THL4KEL said:

If the immigration service raided all these car washes and clamped down on illegals working there would the prices stay the same? 

 

Sooner or later there will be a clamp down on them.


Ive never seen a car wash get raided which is weird when takeaways get raided for immigrants a lot ! and they always find loads but ive never ever seen a car wash ever get raided? crazy lol they would have a field day if they raided car washes haha, i know a car wash owner who lives in his car wash with his dog him and a few lads all live in the car wash and they cant speak English lol but  i tell u something they wash cars/vans to a high level for £20.00 a day 🤣 they work as if they are on a top wage, always smiling and always polite, i pay my staff NMW and they dont look as happy as the lads who earn £20.00 a day in the car wash lmaooo

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Part Timer
9 minutes ago, Haz said:

i pay my staff NMW and they dont look as happy as the lads who earn £20.00 a day in the car wash lmaooo

I don't know anyone that earns minimum wage, that has to pay rent, utility bills and buy food that is happy.

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Haz
18 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

I don't know anyone that earns minimum wage, that has to pay rent, utility bills and buy food that is happy.


Well other window cleaners in my area pay NMW and some of them pay there staff 50 kwid cash in hand per day lol

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THL4KEL

Times are changing, were moving towards a cashless society where everyone will be monitored except for the rich who will no doubt still be able to hide cash in tax havens.

 

 

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ksp

I’m with @Haz on this to a point. How many times do you watch things on the TV when people have thought that it’ll always be the good times until something changes then it’s not.

 

For ages now people have been saying that there’s always more houses, more customers to do but that’s not the case. There will be a saturation point where there are more cleaners than there is work. You see it in the trades all the time. Every ten years or so there will shortage of a certain trade (right now it’s brickys and they’re making a lot of money off the back of it) so at college now there will be a lot of people training to be a bricky, plus a lot of people will be re-training to be one in the hope of getting their share of the riches. Less people will be going in to training for others trades as a consequence. Give it 10 years you have a surplus of brickys and a shortage of plumbers or sparky’s and then the cycle repeats itself.

 

We are in a trade which is ever more accessible to anyone starting due to the decline in costs to start up plus the fact with the internet and YouTube you can learn anything you need about the job easily. There’s a big Incentive for people to gamble as well due to the fact it’s not a big financial outlay to start and yet you can make some great money if you have condensed work. 
 

I’ve found myself that since spotless water came to Swindon theres been a big increase in window cleaning vans about, (It seems to me I see new ones almost daily certainly at least 1 a week) and the outlay I’m having to invest in time and money to acquire new customers is greater for a smaller return in enquiries. Now that’s subjective on my part and I can’t give you evidence on that being a fact but I’m sure a lot of you guys in bigger towns and cities have found the same. 
 

There is going to be a time coming when the competition drives prices down. I think a lot of sole traders or businesses of few people who have established rounds with a good rapport with their customers will be hopefully be insulated from this but a lot of people are going to suffer. It’ll be harder to establish a round and harder to expand. 

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