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Sambo12

Thinking about setting up



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spruce
55 minutes ago, adamangler said:

 

 

What I would do spruce is buy an extension for the 22 to make it a 27.

 

Then buy a new slx 18

 

The 27 will last ages as won't get used nearly as much and the 18 will wear fast but cheaper to replace. 

 

I have an slx 18 and an extreme 25.

 

I probably use the slx 70/80% of the time with the extreme coming out a handful of times a day. 

 

The idea being the extreme should last a few years and is light where I need it over connys and in angles etc. 

 

An slx 18 is a very light pole and stiff when used straight up on run of the mill property's. 

 

The only other pole I have is an old clz 27 with an extension so its about 32ft I think. It's horrible at that height but only needed maybe 5 times a month for a few velux windows so makes no sense to replace it for this purpose. 

 

But of course it depends on your round

 

My SLX22 isn't going to last forever. A #6 section CLX base pole is £49 + VAT where a#6 section SLX base is £70 + VAT. What puts me off is the hassle of adding a section on those odd times I need it.

It would be better to buy an SLX27 outright, adding an extreme brush and working through the aching fingers.

 

I would be certain that when my pole does finally pack in the base section could still be salvageable as it does get used as much as the other sections.

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Pjj

We have most poles  Gardiners make clx,six, extreme, ultimate , for my everyday pole I had an extream 18 lovely pole but very delicate broke several top sections and that wasn’t abusing it , when it had to be relegated  to the bin I bought an slx 18 within weeks I was getting black hands never had this with the extream ????? , I have now gone back to the clx and it’s a good pole ,bit whippey and bit heavier but it’s a good pole and no black hands , I don’t want to wear gloves and the black hands was doing my head in 😬😬 . The extream 18 is a nice pole but it’s around 3 times the price , is it really worth that ??? Not sure .The funny thing is Ime using the clx and staff are using the better slx 😂😂😂

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spruce
4 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

I've only been doing this job for 9 years and I'm starting to feel old. The new guys saying they can't control a CLX and it's to heavy should try and use a metal or fibreglass pole. They'd sharp appreciate a CLX pole. 

 

This is so true.

An Unger Teleplus ali pole with a oval Vikan was the ultimate in flex and black hands.

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adamangler
1 hour ago, Part Timer said:

But a quarter of the price, ok if you can afford the extra expense

 

Poles are the single most important bit of kit a wfp cleaner uses. 

 

Scrimp on other areas but never the pole, it's the thing you use all day everyday. 

 

My gear isn't flash, it's all d.i.y and my van isn't a new one either but when it comes to poles they are the thing that makes a huge difference to how easy and productive your day is. 

32 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

I've only been doing this job for 9 years and I'm starting to feel old. The new guys saying they can't control a CLX and it's to heavy should try and use a metal or fibreglass pole. They'd sharp appreciate a CLX pole. 

 

I started with a Harris pole and a brush from Tesco lol

 

My next pole was a hybrid one then onto an slx then the extreme. And everytime I've upgraded I've wondered why I didn't buy one sooner. 

 

It's not a matter of cant control one but why make life harder than it needs to be. It's a physically demanding job as it is, make life as comfortable as possible. Imo. 

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Iron Giant
8 hours ago, Part Timer said:

But a quarter of the price, ok if you can afford the extra expense


Xmas must be expensive in your house 😁

Edited by Iron Giant

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Part Timer
31 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:


Xmas must be expensive in your house 😁

Always is but the topic started as someone setting up on a budget. It's all fine people saying you should buy a £500 pole but when you're doing 10 to 20 hours a week on the glass, in my opinion, it makes very little difference to your physical well being by using a slightly heavier pole. Also how many newbies last long enough to appreciate the difference between poles. 

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Iron Giant
10 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

Always is but the topic started as someone setting up on a budget. It's all fine people saying you should buy a £500 pole but when you're doing 10 to 20 hours a week on the glass, in my opinion, it makes very little difference to your physical well being by using a slightly heavier pole. Also how many newbies last long enough to appreciate the difference between poles. 


I agree, also for me I abused my first 3 poles never knew how to look after them, so even some one converting trad rounds to wfp should get a clx pole until they get used to wfp

Edited by Iron Giant

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dazmond

starting off........ a CLX 22 is a fine budget pole,couple it with a uni valve,gardiners v3 backpack,20m of pole hose,a few barrels and a foldaway trolley(held on with a bungee strap) and your in business(if your buying your pure water that it).....you can upgrade as you go.....

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Tango
14 hours ago, Part Timer said:

The carbon breaks down into an oil type solution that gets on your index finger. All the DIY guys will say not if you maintain them, well you don't have to maintain the CLX

 

My clx is in desperate need of PTFE lubricant as it's now becoming incredibly stiff. How is that not needing maintenance?

 

12 hours ago, TWC said:

If I was starting again today id get an slx 22 and this

https://www.diy.com/departments/werner-7-tread-aluminium-steel-stepladder-2-12m/5010845000290_BQ.prd

 

Great for reaching over conservatory’s, extensions and reaching skylight. Stable enough to stand on top. Really saves your back and shoulders. 

Wouldnt fancy a clx longer than 18 foot as their to whippy 

 

And then you need a roof rack or a van.. how is that doable on a budget?

 

12 hours ago, Part Timer said:

I've only been doing this job for 9 years and I'm starting to feel old. The new guys saying they can't control a CLX and it's to heavy should try and use a metal or fibreglass pole. They'd sharp appreciate a CLX pole. 

 

Some people aren't as physically strong as you. Heck I met a windy recently who was made of muscle, uses a slx 25 and he said it was heavy! He tried my clx 27 and was stunned. If you saw the size of him you'd wonder why he was complaining.

 

I'm also riddled with arthritic problems so the clx isn't the best option for me and I'm not ashamed to say it.

 

But like I said, at full length it's also heavy at an angle and too whippy / difficult to control - especially in moderate wind. This slows down cleaning meaning it's kept up there longer putting more strain on the operator.

 

3 hours ago, Part Timer said:

Always is but the topic started as someone setting up on a budget. It's all fine people saying you should buy a £500 pole but when you're doing 10 to 20 hours a week on the glass, in my opinion, it makes very little difference to your physical well being by using a slightly heavier pole. Also how many newbies last long enough to appreciate the difference between poles. 

 

I'll disagree over the little difference thing. 

 

I will say it's a good bench marking pole though, once you've had a clx it's great for comparing other poles against.

 

My plan now is to get a slx for the high Windows but sick with the (shortened) clx for lower ones. This will preserve the slx (and black hand membership - though I use gloves anyway) and allow me to replace my lower heights pole with a cheaper clx. By lower heights I mean ground and 1st floor.

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Sambo12

Thanks for all the info, Think I will go for a clx 27 and backpack option. 

 

One thing I have seen is, people saying it takes 2-3 cleans to actually be clean? Is there anyway to get it right first time? Personally think it’s a bit weird telling a customer it will take 3 months to have cleans windows. 

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Pjj
3 minutes ago, Sambo12 said:

Thanks for all the info, Think I will go for a clx 27 and backpack option. 

 

One thing I have seen is, people saying it takes 2-3 cleans to actually be clean? Is there anyway to get it right first time? Personally think it’s a bit weird telling a customer it will take 3 months to have cleans windows. 


 

people who say it takes two or three cleans arnt doing it right we get the job up to speed on the first clean and it looks the same as if it had been done for years , they are making excuses for either poor water quality or bad technique 

 

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Potta81
3 minutes ago, Pjj said:


 

people who say it takes two or three cleans arnt doing it right we get the job up to speed on the first clean and it looks the same as if it had been done for years , they are making excuses for either poor water quality or bad technique 

 

I understand what you’re saying but me when I change from trad to wfp will strive for perfect results. I’ll take my time especially on the first couple of months. But I can watch all the videos I want, at the end of the day it’ll be a new way of doing the job & im bound to make mistakes at first. I think saying it might take a couple of cleans (true or not) to get perfect results is a safety net for the inexperience of the new method of cleaning as well. Say a year into it if I picked up a new call I’m sure I’d be a lot more confident & have a better technique to get the job done at a higher standard than when I just started. I think experience is the key factor really.

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Pjj
2 minutes ago, Potta81 said:

I understand what you’re saying but me when I change from trad to wfp will strive for perfect results. I’ll take my time especially on the first couple of months. But I can watch all the videos I want, at the end of the day it’ll be a new way of doing the job & im bound to make mistakes at first. I think saying it might take a couple of cleans (true or not) to get perfect results is a safety net for the inexperience of the new method of cleaning as well. Say a year into it if I picked up a new call I’m sure I’d be a lot more confident & have a better technique to get the job done at a higher standard than when I just started. I think experience is the key factor really.


 

I see what you are saying , when changing over it’s a sharp learning curve I remember it well 😬😬😬 before you leave the property look at the first windows you did they should be dry enough to see any potential problems 

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Tango
46 minutes ago, Sambo12 said:

Thanks for all the info, Think I will go for a clx 27 and backpack option. 

 

One thing I have seen is, people saying it takes 2-3 cleans to actually be clean? Is there anyway to get it right first time? Personally think it’s a bit weird telling a customer it will take 3 months to have cleans windows. 

 

CLX will giver you a good reach - make no mistake on that. It's the weird difficult to reach windows that are a pain when using it. But for the price it's probably the best value you can find on the market.

 

It takes 2-3 cleans to (what i call) "Tame" them - that is bring them in from the wild and get them to behave themselves. The glass and frames will always look great when you finish the first and 2nd cleans - make no mistake you'll never have clients complain. It's just that for whatever reason they seem to carry on accumulating dirt between visits - even though you've got rid of every last spec.

 

On the 3rd or 4th visit you'll notice that for whatever reason, they suddenly start behaving and seem to collect less and less dirt - especially at the back of the sills in the gap that uPVC's typically seem to have. I don't know why, can't explain it. Maybe it's that we just get used to those windows and have subconsciously worked out all the shortcuts to get it done quicker.. who knows (though even some experienced windys will say they get easier from the 3rd clean on) but the glass and frames seem to become a lot less hassle and seem to keep themselves in better condition between visits - from a windys POV anyway. The clients don't seem to notice this but they're not the ones cleaning them!

 

I can go to many of my clients now and if i really pushed it be done in 10-15 mins. I don't push it as i'm not that busy and prefer people to see me working (in the hope of walk ups) but it can be easily done.

 

 

Edited by Tango

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Tango
41 minutes ago, Pjj said:

people who say it takes two or three cleans arnt doing it right we get the job up to speed on the first clean and it looks the same as if it had been done for years , they are making excuses for either poor water quality or bad technique 

 

Yet i've seen many windys say that here on this very forum! You ain't a splash n dash man are you? :1f609:

 

I go to one house which I can guarantee every visit will have filthy windows and sills. I leave it completely spotless every single time (first time it was so bad it took 2.5 hours (didn't charge extra either - but wanted it to look spot on), 2nd time took 1 & 3/4). Now I've got it down to about an hour (sometimes less) for it all to be spotless.. and yet the next time I go there it'll still be filthy. 

 

It's right next to the M20 motorway which doesn't help either plus overhead trees yet the glass and frames now behave themselves and stop collecting as much muck - still filthy but not as stubbornly filthy. When i first went there I spent 30 minutes on one frame blasting out the dirt from the gap at the back of the sill (uPVC). Yes ,30 minutes on one frame. The 2nd time it was full again. Now nothing collects in there. I went there last week, hadn't been there the time before due to scaffolding so a gap of 12 weeks. Still easier than the first 2-3 times.

Edited by Tango

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Potta81
33 minutes ago, Pjj said:


 

I see what you are saying , when changing over it’s a sharp learning curve I remember it well 😬😬😬 before you leave the property look at the first windows you did they should be dry enough to see any potential problems 

My old gaffer from 15 years ago is wfp, been like it years now. He works in my area & has offered me to go round his house to show me the ropes on his windows (free clean/mess for him by me 😂) I’ve watched loads of vids but there’s nothing like doing it yourself is there so even tho I’m sure it’ll only be the basics it’s better than nothing. I’ll obviously practice on my own as well before I start properly. I have vents so finding out what they’re going to throw at me will no doubt help me out as well.

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Part Timer
1 hour ago, Tango said:

My clx is in desperate need of PTFE lubricant as it's now becoming incredibly stiff. How is that not needing maintenance?

I've got one 4 years old that hasn't been touched, my 18 month old SLX is now kept as the spare pole as it's badly worn and I'm constantly having to tighten the clamps. You seem to be taking great umbrage of me relating to my own experience. The fact that you have arthritis is obviously not the norm and anyone with your condition would have to get the best equipment they can afford 

The last pole I bought was a CLX27 and I assure you it's not because I can't afford an Extreme. 

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spruce

There are going to be some windows that will always give you trouble @Potta81

 

The worst windows we have on our round is my windows. The frames are old and were never good quality from new. (They were a couple of years old when we first bought the house 19 years ago.

The sun causes the frames of the south facing windows to oxidize and we get runs of white dots down the glass when its all dried. You can rub your finger across the frame and you will come up with a white residue every time you do it.

 

We also have a number of houses on the round with upper openers and a big window underneath. We usually end up cleaning the top openers and then let them drip down. Once they have done that we then clean the bottom pane. On one house we go away to do other houses in the area before coming back as water gets in behind old seals and takes ages to drain down.

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Part Timer
2 minutes ago, spruce said:

On one house we go away to do other houses in the area before coming back as water gets in behind old seals and takes ages to drain down.

I just tie a microfibre cloth onto my brush and dry the only bad one I've got, have a few ground floor ones I cloth dry as well 

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Potta81
1 minute ago, spruce said:

There are going to be some windows that will always give you trouble @Potta81

 

The worst windows we have on our round is my windows. The frames are old and were never good quality from new. (They were a couple of years old when we first bought the house 19 years ago.

The sun causes the frames of the south facing windows to oxidize and we get runs of white dots down the glass when its all dried. You can rub your finger across the frame and you will come up with a white residue every time you do it.

 

We also have a number of houses on the round with upper openers and a big window underneath. We usually end up cleaning the top openers and then let them drip down. Once they have done that we then clean the bottom pane. On one house we go away to do other houses in the area before coming back as water gets in behind old seals and takes ages to drain down.


Yea, plenty of upper openers on my round tbf, dreading them especially at the start. I’ve come across oxidising plastic frames as well. I’m in the process of getting all the frames, especially at the top where the dirt sits clean now, months in advance to make life a bit easier. The frames that I know do it I give a good rub with a damp microfibre & while I do still get the white powder on my finger it’s nowhere near as bad as a few months ago before rubbing them down. I’m not sure it can be completely eliminated or not by the time I start wfp, if not I’ll just have to see how I go with them

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spruce
6 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

I just tie a microfibre cloth onto my brush and dry the only bad one I've got, have a few ground floor ones I cloth dry as well 

 

The one house is so bad we trad them.

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TWC
6 hours ago, Tango said:

And then you need a roof rack or a van.. how is that doable on a budget?

He runs a decorating business. Chances are he’s got a van already

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Tango
4 hours ago, Part Timer said:

You seem to be taking great umbrage of me relating to my own experience. The fact that you have arthritis is obviously not the norm and anyone with your condition would have to get the best equipment they can afford 

 

I also didn't have a back problem before using the CLX27. Now I do - I think it may have been one particular house that did it - trying to reach difficult windows using the pole fully extended. 3 days later the weird sensations started in my back and have now been with me for months (does come and go though so not 24/7). I do however also work another job which is very physical so it may not be entirely down to the pole at all - timing may be coincidental. Either way it is (to me and others who aren't well built) heavy at full length. Oddly the pole sometimes cures it too - yesterday went to an awkward one, could feel my back sensations mildly, did the PITA window at the top, felt a bit of movement and now nothing since. Who knows..

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Dino

I started off with a CLX, four sections, I dunno even how long it is to be fair, it covers most first floor properties, that is all I need.  I use a backpack on a B&Q heavy duty trolley and bungee cord.  I have 4 x 25 L drums and 3 x 20 L drums.  I bought a budget r/o system.  I can easily produce my own water and service my customers and gain access to most properties.  My van cost me £1k and I can honestly say Im happy.  No issues.  It makes my eyes water seeing people pay £0000 for gear.  I just don't get it.  We are window cleaners not astronaughts, I appreciate I am new but my CLX seems very easy to use.  I appreciate I may be stronger than others but I dunno Im 45 and dont consider myself to be a muscle head.  It does make wonder if people are being told they need to spend £0000 through clever marketing.  Personally I'd rather keep my money for more important future long term costs like a decent van than ridiculously expensive poles and accessories.  Not slating anyone, just my own take on it.

Edited by Dino

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dazmond
26 minutes ago, Dino said:

I started off with a CLX, four sections, I dunno even how long it is to be fair, it covers most first floor properties, that is all I need.  I use a backpack on a B&Q heavy duty trolley and bungee cord.  I have 4 x 25 L drums and 3 x 20 L drums.  I bought a budget r/o system.  I can easily produce my own water and service my customers and gain access to most properties.  My van cost me £1k and I can honestly say Im happy.  No issues.  It makes my eyes water seeing people pay £0000 for gear.  I just don't get it.  We are window cleaners not astronaughts, I appreciate I am new but my CLX seems very easy to use.  I appreciate I may be stronger than others but I dunno Im 45 and dont consider myself to be a muscle head.  It does make wonder if people are being told they need to spend £0000 through clever marketing.  Personally I'd rather keep my money for more important future long term costs like a decent van than ridiculously expensive poles and accessories.  Not slating anyone, just my own take on it.

ill have spent £30k on my van (when ive paid the balloon in a couple of years),grippa hot water system,xtreme poles,electric reel,etc..........im thinking long term (as well as easier day to day working)at least the next 10-15 years.....

 

ive had the old,cheap,second hand,high mileage vans,backpacks,barrels,trolleys,budget clx poles,cold pure water window cleaning,etc,etc and its much easier with my current set up,quicker too.....

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Part Timer
29 minutes ago, dazmond said:

ill have spent £30k on my van (when ive paid the balloon in a couple of years),grippa hot water system,xtreme poles,electric reel,etc..........im thinking long term (as well as easier day to day working)at least the next 10-15 years.....

 

ive had the old,cheap,second hand,high mileage vans,backpacks,barrels,trolleys,budget clx poles,cold pure water window cleaning,etc,etc and its much easier with my current set up,quicker too.....

I've just spent £30k+ on a new van, system and twin stack electric reels, already had hot water. I then spent £200+ on a 27'CLX because it does the job and lasts much longer than the SLX which is £90 more expensive but less than 10% lighter. 

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Iron Giant
23 hours ago, Part Timer said:

in my opinion, it makes very little difference to your physical well being by using a slightly heavier pole.


That's because you're so big and strong 😘

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Dino
12 hours ago, dazmond said:

ill have spent £30k on my van (when ive paid the balloon in a couple of years),grippa hot water system,xtreme poles,electric reel,etc..........im thinking long term (as well as easier day to day working)at least the next 10-15 years.....

 

ive had the old,cheap,second hand,high mileage vans,backpacks,barrels,trolleys,budget clx poles,cold pure water window cleaning,etc,etc and its much easier with my current set up,quicker too.....

My van has 67k on the clock.  Sound body work and new tyres, engine is ticking over.  There are bargains to be had.  I get what you mean.  I think I had looked at 15 + vans most were stupidly priced and had mileage of 150 k +.  Most had been thrashed and abused.  They normally just clean them up and hope some sucker will come along and take it off their hands thinking its bargain.  I had one guy who refused to let me take a berlingo for a test drive.  He turned on the ignition told me to get in and said I could drive forward like 4 metres and reverse the same and that would be good enough.  Experiences like this just red flag to me.  Newbies like on a budget need good wheels but its hard as most second hand vans I looked at were just waiting to die.  

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Davy G

I have a 2006 Mercedes Vito, cost £5250 three years ago. Ex Cannon Hygiene fleet van. Had it about three years. Now has nearly 160000 miles on the clock. Drives like a new car, reliable as an iron bar. I have an electric immersion heater heating my water, cost less than £1oo, it was 60c at start of work this morning still 55c in the van after six hours work, no servicing needed. Plug in the evening before and forget till morning. Set up owes me nothing and I wouldn't change a thing. Two of us (son and self) working together like a well oiled Swiss watch.

 

I wouldn't swap our setup for any that I've seen, except maybe to replicate what I now have and find something better to do with the profit.🙂

 

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Iron Giant
On 29/11/2019 at 12:06, Dino said:

My van has 67k on the clock.  Sound body work and new tyres, engine is ticking over.  There are bargains to be had.  I get what you mean.  I think I had looked at 15 + vans most were stupidly priced and had mileage of 150 k +.  Most had been thrashed and abused.  They normally just clean them up and hope some sucker will come along and take it off their hands thinking its bargain.  I had one guy who refused to let me take a berlingo for a test drive.  He turned on the ignition told me to get in and said I could drive forward like 4 metres and reverse the same and that would be good enough.  Experiences like this just red flag to me.  Newbies like on a budget need good wheels but its hard as most second hand vans I looked at were just waiting to die.  


I bought my current van from van monster almost 2 years ago with around 59k on the clock it now only has 65,500 it failed it's two mot's on small things which haven't cost the earth to fix as in £50-100, this year was my most expensive at the garage due to a major service been due and needing 1 new tyre for the mot as it didn't have an extra load tyre fitted so it was running off on the inside due to the weight I carry and the two front tyres not been far away from needing changing, other than that it runs well and is a good little van and I see it serving me well for years to come. 

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