Collective Bargining Idea

Was wondering if this forum/mods has trialled this idea?

What do think...

I'm sure we all agree this forum is great and has much latent potential...just wondering how it could be leveraged further for our advantage.

No doubt we all have a 'wishlist' of new kit we know we'll need/want to get in the coming months/year ahead , for example a 'powered reel', new WFP van system fitted, Tank moved to new van, new pole etc....

What if, for our main 'big ticket' item's on our wish lists, the 'forum' approached suppliers for a discount when a numeric threshold is reached, say

1 reel, = list price

5 - 5% off,

10 - 10% off

15 - 20% off.

50 - 40% off

The wishlist could have open/close dates perhaps 1/3/6/12 month...so we sign up (provide needed details/commit to buy) and sit back when the target discount is reached, a 'collective' order is placed and we all benefit from the discount (forum could even take a small fee) so we all benefit, forum/suppliers/us.

Some suppliers will no doubt jump at chance to reach new customers/shift bulk stock (we might not have thought we could have afforded item x from supplier 'abc'  so was going to buy item 'y' from supplier 'xyz' but with a bulk discount we opt for item 'x' - hence supplier get's a new customer and potential repeat/cross selling purchases. 

I'd imagine polls could be run on the forum to ascertain the 'standard' wish list items along with 'preferred' suppliers and suitable timescales

Once potential demand is understood, 'forum' approach/negotiate discounts with suppliers

Forum sets up 'sticky' threads to list 'wish list'.

Starts to operate...

Sure there's loads of details here that you'll all have an opinion on, but conceptually what do you think - can/how do we take it forward?

I think one of the sponsors on here has their own site that does this.

Aah ok PT, makes sense, it's a good opportunity for middleman/firm to exploit...

I can't recall seeing any of their ads or come to think of it any posts advocating these guys' offering - What's their name?

I do see an awful lot of posts saying who's intending to get what next...wondering why no's ones biggin up this 'firm' ?

Does it work and provide an appreciable benefit to the end user or are most benefit's going to the firm acting as a gobetween? 

I think he was at one time a sponsor but isn't currently I don't think, I see it as a good idea to a point but would take a some graft no doubt, it was @mark m so doubt he had some clout regarding bargaining with running the cleaning show each year

I always ask for discount when placing a reasonable order for stuff some will play ball some won’t , just bought a new gutter vac from skyvac asked for discount and got a very good deal , if you dint ask you don’t get they can only say no and if they do then try another firm that’s what I do ,won’t mention the companies involved but I wanted a couple of expensive items a few years ago I phoned the main seller and asked for discount and was told no , so I phoned one of the other well know firm that sell there stuff and got a good discount , so again it pays to shop around 

Yet if customers ask for a cheaper quote some get on their high horse ?

Part Timer said:

Yet if customers ask for a cheaper quote some get on their high horse ?

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I just tell customers to shop around and get more quotes knowing that they will not do it and they usually go with me. After hearing what I will have to pay for my membranes, I'm not really into bargaining and I tell them I'm quite expensive but I provide a good service. Last year I had a customer bargain with me from £80 down to £55 and a few weeks later she cancelled, I don't want that to happen again so I don't do bargaining. You either want my service of you don't, don't play the Hoki Cokey anymore. ?

Scottish, suppliers do tend to err on the side of super cautious, especially when it means having to buy something from them ? 1 replacement carbon filter in 6 years, both membranes still original ? (resin replaced 8-12mths)

NoName said:

Scottish, suppliers do tend to err on the side of super cautious, especially when it means having to buy something from them ? 1 replacement carbon filter in 6 years, both membranes still original ? (resin replaced 8-12mths)

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How do you know when to change a carbon filter or membranes for that matter?

Well you've got me there...I spoke to the supplier about something (can't recall) and was told/advised I needed/should  replace it (it wasn't a lot so I did) Membranes are more expensive so I adopted a 'wait and see' approach - I suspect the time it takes to fill the tank has increased - but overnight is always fine - hence still rolling with the same membranes (I do backflush fairly regularly though) TPS is always 0

scottish cleaning service said:

How do you know when to change a carbon filter or membranes for that matter?

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Carbon and sediment filters should be changed every 10,000 litres or so, sure @spruce will put me right. Membranes when they start to perform poorly. I actually only change my filters every 6 months.

I could change the carbon filter every year because i use less than 1000 litres a month at the moment but received two new customers today, one wfp and one trad.

PT do you know what happens if you don't change 'em?

Presumably something must happen - all I could think of was it would take longer - membranes being congested with limescale etc to fill up tank or you'd end up using more resin to make it 0ppm pure?

So as long as the time it takes is ok and/or you're ok with resin use - what' the benefit of changing 'em?

Scottish you must do lot of other 'add on's work - I use 1000l in 1.5 days!

I'm led to believe that you will damage the membrane, I use circa 5000 litres a month, nearly double that in the months I work away.   

Part Timer said:

I'm led to believe that you will damage the membrane, I use circa 5000 litres a month, nearly double that in the months I work away.   

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Lol you are a part timer ???? we use more than that in a week ????

Pjj said:

Lol you are a part timer ???? we use more than that in a week ????

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I know, always managed to find good jobs where I don't have to work 9-5 and my friends nicknamed me that when I played golf 3 times a week. But I only do 30 hours a week, max, and 2 weeks a month at home in this job.  

NoName said:

PT do you know what happens if you don't change 'em?

Presumably something must happen - all I could think of was it would take longer - membranes being congested with limescale etc to fill up tank or you'd end up using more resin to make it 0ppm pure?

So as long as the time it takes is ok and/or you're ok with resin use - what' the benefit of changing 'em?

Scottish you must do lot of other 'add on's work - I use 1000l in 1.5 days!

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Brodex don't or didn't include a carbon block filter on their systems. This was a money spinner on replacement membranes for them.

I'm jack of all trades. This week I had to replace 4 sq metres of monblock and PW the area. Had to use a neighbours outside tap so I PW her back area. Had my windie customers on either side so I ended up PW 4 back gardens that are all slabbed or monoblock and a small area at the front. My jobs all take this form of action when I working round the corner from my house. My customers are like a family now but they all pay and its like a small community. They will all stay with me because I can usually undertake anything or give them good advice.

Part Timer said:

I'm led to believe that you will damage the membrane, I use circa 5000 litres a month, nearly double that in the months I work away.   

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When to change carbon block filters is a controversial topic.

So this is my opinion and differs from what others conclude from their knowledge and experiences.

Chlorine is added to water to purify it to make it safe for drinking. The dosing station put a certain amount of chlorine into the water. They call this Total chlorine.

A portion of the chlorine dose reacts with organic, inorganic and metals and other materials prior to disinfection. So the amount of chlorine the water demands will depend on the amount of materials in the water to be purified. This isn't a fixed amount as water quality changes; ie, water drawn from different reservoirs.

There needs to be some chlorine left over to disinfect the water and the supply system. This is called free chlorine and should be found in our tap water in a normal household usage cycle of 4 to 24 hours.

Normal chlorine test kits using a liquid chemical OTO (orthotolidine) that causes a color change to yellow in the presence of total chlorine can't test free chlorine. Much more advanced chlorine testers are required for this.

So the question I ask is how much free chlorine is in our water at any given time? According to our Northumberland Water  supplier they are required to add chlorine to make the water we drink safe which encompasses their delivery system. They log the results of their water quality checks and are shown on their website which would be a Government requirement. They also log the amount of chlorine found in each sample.

Here is what their website says about chlorine:

CHLORINE
We are legally required to add a small amount of chlorine to the water supply at our treatment works to kill any harmful bacteria so that your drinking water is of the highest standard. Chlorine helps to maintain hygienic conditions throughout our distribution network.
Chlorine is added to your water at very low levels which are not harmful. When the water leaves our treatment works, the chlorine level is normally around one part per million.

THE TASTE OR SMELL IS MORE NOTICEABLE AT DIFFERENT TIMES OF THE DAY OR CHANGES FROM TIME TO TIME

Chlorine can sometimes taste or smell stronger depending on:

• Where your water is being supplied from.

• The distance you live from the treatment works.

• The time of day.

• The temperature of the water.

• If water is traveling faster than usual through our network, such as following a burst or during times of higher demand for water.

THE TASTE OR SMELL IS PRESENT IN HOT DRINKS OR BOILED WATER

This may be due to the chlorine reacting with rubber components in your kettle. Please take a look at the fact-sheet on antiseptic, medical or TCP tastes and smells.

WHAT YOU CAN DO

You can try filling a jug of water, covering it and then leaving it in the fridge for a few hours. Chlorine levels will reduce over time, so do not leave it for longer than 24 hours as the disinfectant effect of the chlorine will also reduce over time and will no longer be protected from bacterial growth.

The conclusion is that chlorine is going to be present in our water in various levels depending on a host of conditions.

The million dollar question is how much chlorine is going to be in my water supply at any given time? We just don't know.

I appreciate that many will have differing views based on their experience. Now here is my take on the subject. which you may or may not agree with. That's OK.

My 4040 r/o is on a water meter so I know how much water my r/o has consumed. I use it to identify when I change my carbon block filter.

I have 20" prefilters, one sediment and one carbon block. The carbon block I use is a Fiberdyne filter which, according to the suppliers will treat the chlorine in 76k of water. This is the total amount of water used in my r/o which includes waste and pure. How do the manufacturers arrive at this service life figure of 75800 litres of water if they don't know how much chlorine is in my water? 

I don't exactly know the answer to that question but I would imagine that they would base this on a maximum level in chlorine in the water that is still safe to drink with a little additional lee way to be safe. If this is the case then I could also conclude that if the chlorine in my water averaged half of this figure they based their service life on, then my carbon block filter should, in theory, last twice as long.

As a user I might conclude that the odds are that the chlorine in our tap water will be less than the chlorine the filter manufacturers based their service life figures on. I might be tempted take a 'gamble' and extend the filter change interval. But if I'm advising on the forum, I'm best sticking with the manufacturer's figures.

In my case I have religiously changed my Fiberdyne filter at 77k. My membrane is nearly 6 and a half years old and still performing at 97% rejection rate. I could still be experiencing the same membrane life had I opted to change my C/B filter every 100k, I don't know.

@Part Timer has stated that he only changes his prefilters once every 6 months. I don't know what C/B filter he uses but there are a lot available from different suppliers that have a service life of 10,000 litres, some only 6000 litres. Now if he is using 5k of water a month cleaning windows and his r/o runs at a 55 to 45 waste to pure ratio, then his r/o is consuming 11,100 liters of water. When he goes south he can use twice the 5000 litres which is 22200 litres.  If he uses that extra water after every 2 months then he is using approx 100,000 litres of water in 6 months. 

BTW, @Part Timeruses water supplied by Northumberland water. I leave you to draw your own conclusions regarding the amount of chlorine we have at the tap.

I have also asked Northumberland Water where my local dosing station is. I'm still waiting for their reply and not holding my breath. I've asked a number of their employees but they haven't a clue either. Its an important question as Northumberland water not only draws water from Kielder Dam but also from numerous smaller dams we have on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors.

We haven't even considered how 'economies of scale' apply to this topic.

scottish cleaning service said:

I'm jack of all trades. This week I had to replace 4 sq metres of monblock and PW the area. Had to use a neighbours outside tap so I PW her back area. Had my windie customers on either side so I ended up PW 4 back gardens that are all slabbed or monoblock and a small area at the front. My jobs all take this form of action when I working round the corner from my house. My customers are like a family now but they all pay and its like a small community. They will all stay with me because I can usually undertake anything or give them good advice.

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I was actually thinking about this today regarding the implications of doing a variety of different jobs.

I run a SWB Peugeot Boxer with a 650 liter tank and 2 of us working from it. I do have a small gutter vac on board with poles and my van is full. To be really self sufficient with gutter clearing I would need a generator but have no room for one.

Some windies do carpet cleaning and those machines take up a lot of space. If I did pressure washing then there is a lot of equipment needed to cater for that market. If I cut grass then I would need garden tools, a lawn mower and strimmer.

No wonder you need a much bigger van. In fact you should consider a Volvo with a 40' Pantechnicon Box Trailer. ?