Jump to content







Before posting a new topic please use the search feature. Duplicate posts may be removed or merged with others.

Start new topic


Bigbird

Employee Contract



Recommended Posts

Iron Giant
On 08/01/2019 at 21:48, Mabozzer said:

Down south you'll get it easier though, 2010 guys were hardly out for about 4 weeks. Last winter was also pretty bad and during the winter the working hours are reduced so you've only got a Saturday for OT


That winter was bad but that was something that's not happened in years and could be another 8 years again as for reduced daylight hours most lads don't work till 5pm and beyond I usually will till 4-4.30pm so in reality through the winter I only lose 30 minutes daylight a day which can be easily made up by pushing on through a working day.  

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
8 hours ago, P4dstar said:

Some of you will be able to point back to posts where I have been an advocate of taking on people as self employed... My opinion of this has largely changed due to how my little brother has been treated recently so I now agree a lot more with what you've said here mate.

 

My little bro works for a builder who has massive contracts with the likes of BT and Barclays. His lads work all over the country. Take home pay is around £300 if they're home and £520 if they're working away. They are ''self employed'' on a scheme that has been running since the 90's where the company you work for pays your tax. They submit payments direct to HMRC and confirm how much you earned that week. The lads all seem to end up with a rebate and are well chuffed when this comes through. Thats really helpful of them as they don't need to find an accountant. They also don't know to claim every pair of steelies they buy or every winter work jacket, they don't put fuel through... The list is endless. They lose a lot more through this than a decent accountant or bookkeeper would cost.

 

At the beginning of December I became an uncle for the second time. He was back to work the next day, literally the next day. He is legally entitled to £150 a week Paternity leave for 2 weeks. He wasn't told about this. It's paid by the government so wouldn't cost his boss a penny. This week he was laid off for the week as the guy has no work ready to start.... 2 young children at home to feed, doing it all legit, it just ain't fair. Yes you are correct, he is looking for another job!

 

This is where I go off on a slightly different point of view.... If you fill one van that brings in £4.5k per month, less expenses it's at £3800 say, very very roughly of course. Try and take on a full timer on a permanent full time contract, 3 weeks of no work and you're in massive trouble. Take on a part timer (no pun intended) and he or she will either only want part time hours permanently or will be looking for a full time job elsewhere which leaves you at risk of losing him or her and leaving yourself with too much work.

 

Just a little side note, most good accountants will advise you are better to employ a team of part timers instead of a few full timers, less NI contributions, holidays are easier to cover, sickness is easier to cover etc. This is a strategy is taken by a lot of large UK businesses. It doesn't necessarily suit the demographic we would look to employ though which is often a family man who is the main bread winner.

 

I think for your first employee there are many circumstances where you will need to put someone on a 0 hour contract, if you can afford to then putting them on a 16 hour contract with the intention of them working 35-40 hours or whatever will be much better. The contract can be increased at a later date. Yes it isn't necessarily fair in worst case scenario's but I think as long as you intend to treat them as fairly as possible it will usually work out nicely.

 

With regards to self employed there is one simple way to look at it, if an employee came to you and said 'I ain't coming in next week because i'm bricklaying for mike down the road' would you tell them they aren't? If the answer is yes then they are employed and should be treated as such. If you have a handful of employees already and want to take on a casual worker that can be brought in when things are busy then there is no reason they have to be employed. If for example you take on a bunch of conny roof cleans and want a lad who can dip in sort them all out for you then he isn't necessarily employed, still has to agree to work on a self employed basis though. This is the same principal as me dropping someone on here a message to work a job with me, they are self employed sub contractors and I just pay them whatever we agree etc.

Sounds like you bro was being fleeced on that sort of money for a self employed builder. That aside I think were he went wrong though was that he treated his income as a weekly wage which you cannot do when self employed. My dad taught me that as he was a self employed engineer/welder and when the times were good they were very good but he also had some bad times that you have to prepare for. I had a conversation with a self employed builder once and the way he does it is for the first few months of the year he would save most of his earnings to cover that years basic living expenses then once they are covered it doesn’t matter what happens as your essentials to live comfortably are covered. Then your basically working for your luxury’s. Working as self employed can be far more lucrative than as an employee if you’ve got the brains to go about it the right way (no disrespect to your bro), some just prefer the security that being an employee offers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Green Pro Clean Ltd
2 hours ago, Cleanco said:

On another note if you don’t mind me asking  @Green Pro Clean Ltd how much profit do you expect to yield from each van in a multiple van operation based on one man per van these days?  I’m not expecting you to discuss your exact financial business aspects as I most certainly wouldnt on an open forum but just a rough guide as I looked into this a good few years back and went through a few figures with my accountant and we worked out that with all the extra expenses it brings also including lockups, a yard, admin staff and premises/office etc I’d need at least 10 vans out there before I could see a financial gain compared to what I was achieving on my own as a sole trader. I know once that barrier has been broken the world is your oyster but I didn’t want to be stuck with all the stress of running a big business for not much extra financial gain which is why we are all in this job. I’m also guessing that it’s not just a case of, get a few vans on the road and watch the money come rolling in. I bet once your at a certain size there’s more work to do off the tools than when you was on them. 

 

You must have missed the part above where I said I wasn't going to talk about their targets.  😁

 

If your accountant thinks you need 10 vans to make profit either your numbers are way off and you love doing £3 jobs all day or he is simply a poor accountant. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
2 hours ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

You must have missed the part above where I said I wasn't going to talk about their targets.  😁

 

If your accountant thinks you need 10 vans to make profit either your numbers are way off and you love doing £3 jobs all day or he is simply a poor accountant. 

 

 

Fair play, don’t want your employees finding out how much you making eh😬

Not ten vans to make a profit, ten vans to make as much as I can on my own. That was also on the basis that I came off the tools altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
P4dstar
7 minutes ago, Cleanco said:

Fair play, don’t want your employees finding out how much you making eh😬

Not ten vans to make a profit, ten vans to make as much as I can on my own. That was also on the basis that I came off the tools altogether.

I have looked at some rough figures as i'm working towards a multi van operation. Can't see you would need 10 vans to make the same profit as a single operator, no one would do it if that was the case. I reckon the van you add that takes you over the VAT threshold would basically compensate for the loss in income from paying VAT. It would be possible to take yourself over the VAT threshold in the first van under some circumstances, more likely in the second and pretty much definite in the 3rd. 20% of your takings on each van are lost immediately to VAT. Around £1700-1800 per month in  wages of 16k with your NI contributions and pensions (Not including any bonus schemes) If each van takes 4k and needs £600 worth pf petrol and equipment each month you are still clearing a grand on that van.... Very rough, no planning involved with any of that. I'm sure all of the above can be cut down to maximise the profit. Then its up to you if you get in a van and save that £1800 a month or let someone do it for you. I would be surprised if 10 vans wasn't fetching 9-10k per month once you factor in holidays though.

 

Before anyone shoots me down with ''what about this and what about that'' I was just giving a very very rough example. I am aware you would probably need an office with a receptionist etc etc etc at that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Green Pro Clean Ltd
33 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

I have looked at some rough figures as i'm working towards a multi van operation. Can't see you would need 10 vans to make the same profit as a single operator, no one would do it if that was the case. I reckon the van you add that takes you over the VAT threshold would basically compensate for the loss in income from paying VAT. It would be possible to take yourself over the VAT threshold in the first van under some circumstances, more likely in the second and pretty much definite in the 3rd. 20% of your takings on each van are lost immediately to VAT. Around £1700-1800 per month in  wages of 16k with your NI contributions and pensions (Not including any bonus schemes) If each van takes 4k and needs £600 worth pf petrol and equipment each month you are still clearing a grand on that van.... Very rough, no planning involved with any of that. I'm sure all of the above can be cut down to maximise the profit. Then its up to you if you get in a van and save that £1800 a month or let someone do it for you. I would be surprised if 10 vans wasn't fetching 9-10k per month once you factor in holidays though.

 

Before anyone shoots me down with ''what about this and what about that'' I was just giving a very very rough example. I am aware you would probably need an office with a receptionist etc etc etc at that point.

 

Van 1 will get you to just below VAT threshold - Once you go VAT registered you need to move quickly from £85K to £102K just to offset the hit on the VAT before you're moving forward again. Take your estimate of 10 vans doing £9 - £10 K Profit for you, double it and add on some for good measure.   

Share this post


Link to post
Green Pro Clean Ltd
55 minutes ago, Cleanco said:

Fair play, don’t want your employees finding out how much you making eh😬

Not ten vans to make a profit, ten vans to make as much as I can on my own. That was also on the basis that I came off the tools altogether.

 

The employees know exactly what's going on, they have the ability and authority to make collections, give quotes and sign new business and they can't do that without knowing the pricing structure.  

 

How much the company makes is of no relevance to the employees, the only relevance to them is that it's making profits and capable of meeting payroll. 

 

I don't wish to be rude here but just two vans run right will take you off the tools and make you more than you can do yourself in one van, this isn't hypothetical, we've done it.  As I said above, you must either be working like a dog on massively underpriced work or your accountant isn't very good at his job.  

 

No one would run a 10 van fleet and all that entails just to take the same money they could do in 1 van on their jacks without the responsibilities, it's just not worth it.  

Share this post


Link to post
P4dstar
1 hour ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

Van 1 will get you to just below VAT threshold - Once you go VAT registered you need to move quickly from £85K to £102K just to offset the hit on the VAT before you're moving forward again. Take your estimate of 10 vans doing £9 - £10 K Profit for you, double it and add on some for good measure.   

As I say, figures written on the back of a cigarette packet they're so rough. It's of no relevance to me, that sort of structure is a distant dream at the moment!

 

I do like your way of looking at it with regards to VAT registration. Too easy to get caught into what each van is worth and not just look at the physical earnings of the business as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Part Timer

What people forget to add to the equation is just because 2 vans make X it isn't guaranteed that 4 vans will make X x 2. A lot of businesses fail because they use a small business plan and extrapolate into a large business plan.

Share this post


Link to post
scottish cleaning service

When I was in fire brigade, we had 4 commands. One command had over 2,000 employees and the others had around 700 employees. The three small commands didn't have any bother with employees getting time off nor training. On the other hand the large command was a nightmare to run, too many employees. Now its worse because we have one big command that will take years to sort out. I reckon a person can manage about five employees comfortable, after that all it does is cause stress and makes less money. FWIW 

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
2 hours ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

The employees know exactly what's going on, they have the ability and authority to make collections, give quotes and sign new business and they can't do that without knowing the pricing structure.  

 

How much the company makes is of no relevance to the employees, the only relevance to them is that it's making profits and capable of meeting payroll. 

 

I don't wish to be rude here but just two vans run right will take you off the tools and make you more than you can do yourself in one van, this isn't hypothetical, we've done it.  As I said above, you must either be working like a dog on massively underpriced work or your accountant isn't very good at his job.  

 

No one would run a 10 van fleet and all that entails just to take the same money they could do in 1 van on their jacks without the responsibilities, it's just not worth it.  

As predicted my calculations must be way off the mark. Can’t blame the accountant as he only has what I give him hence why I was asking for advice and a rough estimate in the first place. 

My calculations are as follows and based on one man doing 300 per day, 5 days a week

300-vat

500-reasonable wage for employee

100-holiday pay, sick pay,workplace pension

200-running expenses per van

200-global business expense e.g admin staff,office, yard +lockup to store vans and epuipment etc

leaves me around 200 per week profit. 

Now you see were I got ten vans from. 

The global business expenses may come down a little the more vans you acquire but not much. 

Edited by Cleanco

Share this post


Link to post
P4dstar
1 hour ago, Cleanco said:

200-global business expense e.g admin staff,office, yard +lockup to store vans and epuipment etc

In the same respect that 4 vans wouldn't make double the amount 2 vans would that wouldn't necessarily increase by 200 per van, you say it may come down a little but surely you're not thinking people get a new premises every time they get a new van

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
59 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

In the same respect that 4 vans wouldn't make double the amount 2 vans would that wouldn't necessarily increase by 200 per van, you say it may come down a little but surely you're not thinking people get a new premises every time they get a new van

No mate but the bigger you get the more the expenses are gonna stack up. I would love to see an actual breakdown of a working multi van operation. I just can’t see that I was that far out tbh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
2 hours ago, Cleanco said:

As predicted my calculations must be way off the mark. Can’t blame the accountant as he only has what I give him hence why I was asking for advice and a rough estimate in the first place. 

My calculations are as follows and based on one man doing 300 per day, 5 days a week

300-vat

500-reasonable wage for employee

100-holiday pay, sick pay,workplace pension

200-running expenses per van

200-global business expense e.g admin staff,office, yard +lockup to store vans and epuipment etc

leaves me around 200 per week profit. 

Now you see were I got ten vans from. 

The global business expenses may come down a little the more vans you acquire but not much. 

 

 

So are you saying that it’s costing you £200 per week to run a van ? That equals £800 per month that’s some serious van , I don’t think it would cost £200 a week for a unit , not that I have one but I know there are ones near me that are £250 per month . If you are paying them £10-12 per hour that’s not £500 per week , if you pay minimum wage + bonus that’s considerably less than £500 ,it’s good to over estimate your expenses so you don’t get caught out but I think you could do it considerably cheaper we certainly do , providing it’s an option can you not operate from home there’s a big saving straight away , we do I only have two vans Ime not intrested in growing the buisness any more . Also depending on the type of work you are doing I would have thought it’s possible to earn more than 300 per man per day on there own without breaking into a sweat , I accept it does depend where in the country you are to a degree . I don’t want to be critical of what you have said but you are running a buisness not a charity you do have to treat staff right and pay a decent  Wage but give them some sort of incentive to do more work like @Green Pro Clean Ltd Said that’s the way to motivate them if you just give them a sheet with £300 worth of work that’s all they will do , offer a bonus for new customers , bonus for xxx amount of extra work done for the month , you will earn considerably more and so will they they will be asking you do you have anything else they can do , any new customers my guys get they have the first clean price as a bonus , they are always canvassing properties next to the jobs they are doing works well for all concerned, hope you are able to make it work 

Share this post


Link to post
Adman

With regard to the contract, i don't think a zero hours contract is something you should consider in window cleaning.  Our business is mostly repeat and fairly predictable.  You either have enough work to cover a full/ part time position or you don't.  If you don't, why employ?

Share this post


Link to post
Mabozzer
14 hours ago, Iron Giant said:


That winter was bad but that was something that's not happened in years and could be another 8 years again as for reduced daylight hours most lads don't work till 5pm and beyond I usually will till 4-4.30pm so in reality through the winter I only lose 30 minutes daylight a day which can be easily made up by pushing on through a working day.  

Before Christmas I was packing up at 1530 at times as there was no light left but then again I don't start early as I've got kids to sort in the morning. As we've past the longest nights it's now light at 1620 which does make a huge for me. Maybe that'll change when I take someone on again and be starting earlier.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Mabozzer
21 hours ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

I've always agreed with decent pay and conditions, but like many starting without resources it takes some graft to position yourself to be able to do so.  

 

Think about that sentence mate.  A contract that guarantees you NOTHING is better than no contract?   You want to stand by that?

At least it's above board having a contract rather than not having a contract, so I'd say it would be better having a zero hour contract than having someone cash in hand. At least you can show where your moneys going.

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
11 hours ago, Pjj said:

 

 

So are you saying that it’s costing you £200 per week to run a van ? That equals £800 per month that’s some serious van , I don’t think it would cost £200 a week for a unit , not that I have one but I know there are ones near me that are £250 per month . If you are paying them £10-12 per hour that’s not £500 per week , if you pay minimum wage + bonus that’s considerably less than £500 ,it’s good to over estimate your expenses so you don’t get caught out but I think you could do it considerably cheaper we certainly do , providing it’s an option can you not operate from home there’s a big saving straight away , we do I only have two vans Ime not intrested in growing the buisness any more . Also depending on the type of work you are doing I would have thought it’s possible to earn more than 300 per man per day on there own without breaking into a sweat , I accept it does depend where in the country you are to a degree . I don’t want to be critical of what you have said but you are running a buisness not a charity you do have to treat staff right and pay a decent  Wage but give them some sort of incentive to do more work like @Green Pro Clean Ltd Said that’s the way to motivate them if you just give them a sheet with £300 worth of work that’s all they will do , offer a bonus for new customers , bonus for xxx amount of extra work done for the month , you will earn considerably more and so will they they will be asking you do you have anything else they can do , any new customers my guys get they have the first clean price as a bonus , they are always canvassing properties next to the jobs they are doing works well for all concerned, hope you are able to make it work 

My van finance and fuel alone come to over 400 a month. Then you’ve got tax, mot, servicing, general maintenance, insurance, employees liability insurance, public liability insurance, round management software fees, fees for payment processing, accountant fees, equipment maintenace and replacement. The list goes on and there’s probs things I don’t even know about once you get to a certain size. Maybe you could get a little more work out of an employee but I wouldn’t like to build a sizeable plan on the basis that every employee is going to be able to do as much as I can. Don’t forget that we have been doing this a very long time. I thought that bar the wages I had been quite leanient with my predictions and that’s all they are as I was just putting it out there in hope that someone that’s implementing a multivan op could tell me otherwise as I may look into expanding again if the profit margins were right for me. 

Also I’d like to add that I think you would most certainly need a separate premises to run the business from as I certainly wouldn’t want a fleet of vans queing down my street waiting to fill their tanks ready for the next day and even if you let the lads take the vans home I wouldn’t expect them to fill using their own water. 

Edited by Cleanco

Share this post


Link to post
Green Pro Clean Ltd
3 hours ago, Cleanco said:

Also I’d like to add that I think you would most certainly need a separate premises to run the business from as I certainly wouldn’t want a fleet of vans queuing down my street

 

We work from home and will continue to do so. We are currently looking for another house with larger garage and wider drive to purchase and the savings from not having a lockup will go nicely towards the mortgage. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Cleanco said:

even if you let the lads take the vans home I wouldn’t expect them to fill using their own water. 

 

My lads do take the vans home but as yet still come down here for fast filling as they live in terraced housing so running hoses across streets not too practical.  However as we grow I would happily set them up with on-board filtration so they can fill at home and just hand in their water bill as an expense. 

 

3 hours ago, Cleanco said:

I was just putting it out there in hope that someone that’s implementing a multivan op could tell me otherwise as I may look into expanding again if the profit margins were right for me. 

 

Happy to come down and go through your books, pick apart your business, see where we can cut dead wood and improve on efficiency and profitability then implement a program for growth to scale up your business and make you a mint moving forward. 

 

^^ Said slightly sarcastically (sorry) that last sentence as there are people that do this for a living (pick apart business operations and improve and scale them) and to hire one will cost you a small fortune so it seems you went the option of hoping someone on here would just lay it all out for you and deliver it double spaced on 240grm Premium Bond in a hard backed folder wrapped in a bow.  The answers are all out there, and I know this sound rude (not intended) but go look for them instead of just hoping someone will write out your business plan when you ask. 

 

IF YOUR EMPLOYEE IS NOT WILLING TO WORK AS HARD AS YOU THEN THEY AREN'T THE RIGHT EMPLOYEE. (Yes I meant to do that in capitals) 

 

Lastly on the topic,  No one can tell you how to run your business, only you can decide that that works for you and does not work for you, what systems and methods and pricing you want to implement ect.  I go battered when two years ago I said I was going GoCardless only without exception, was told it would never work, that I would lose business ect, but here we are two years down the line growing more rapidly than ever with customers loving on-line payment. ONLY YOU can decide the future of you and your business. 

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
2 hours ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

We work from home and will continue to do so. We are currently looking for another house with larger garage and wider drive to purchase and the savings from not having a lockup will go nicely towards the mortgage. 

 

 

 

My lads do take the vans home but as yet still come down here for fast filling as they live in terraced housing so running hoses across streets not too practical.  However as we grow I would happily set them up with on-board filtration so they can fill at home and just hand in their water bill as an expense. 

 

 

Happy to come down and go through your books, pick apart your business, see where we can cut dead wood and improve on efficiency and profitability then implement a program for growth to scale up your business and make you a mint moving forward. 

 

^^ Said slightly sarcastically (sorry) that last sentence as there are people that do this for a living (pick apart business operations and improve and scale them) and to hire one will cost you a small fortune so it seems you went the option of hoping someone on here would just lay it all out for you and deliver it double spaced on 240grm Premium Bond in a hard backed folder wrapped in a bow.  The answers are all out there, and I know this sound rude (not intended) but go look for them instead of just hoping someone will write out your business plan when you ask. 

 

IF YOUR EMPLOYEE IS NOT WILLING TO WORK AS HARD AS YOU THEN THEY AREN'T THE RIGHT EMPLOYEE. (Yes I meant to do that in capitals) 

 

Lastly on the topic,  No one can tell you how to run your business, only you can decide that that works for you and does not work for you, what systems and methods and pricing you want to implement ect.  I go battered when two years ago I said I was going GoCardless only without exception, was told it would never work, that I would lose business ect, but here we are two years down the line growing more rapidly than ever with customers loving on-line payment. ONLY YOU can decide the future of you and your business. 

Thanks for the offer and it’s much appreciated but I was only really looking for expected profit margins per van.Its really refreshing to talk to others that are already successful in this area of our trade and certainly an eye opener. At what point would you say a separate premises would become a necessary?

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
6 hours ago, Cleanco said:

My van finance and fuel alone come to over 400 a month. Then you’ve got tax, mot, servicing, general maintenance, insurance, employees liability insurance, public liability insurance, round management software fees, fees for payment processing, accountant fees, equipment maintenace and replacement. The list goes on and there’s probs things I don’t even know about once you get to a certain size. Maybe you could get a little more work out of an employee but I wouldn’t like to build a sizeable plan on the basis that every employee is going to be able to do as much as I can. Don’t forget that we have been doing this a very long time. I thought that bar the wages I had been quite leanient with my predictions and that’s all they are as I was just putting it out there in hope that someone that’s implementing a multivan op could tell me otherwise as I may look into expanding again if the profit margins were right for me. 

Also I’d like to add that I think you would most certainly need a separate premises to run the business from as I certainly wouldn’t want a fleet of vans queing down my street waiting to fill their tanks ready for the next day and even if you let the lads take the vans home I wouldn’t expect them to fill using their own water. 

 

 

Greens comments are spot on i dont seam to agree with him often unfortunately 😂😂😂 but what he has said is 100% right , I know of several operators near me that run multi van operations from home , I accept they have houses with off road parking but we run two vans like this and I know others do it with up to 10 vans , there is no need for a buisness premesis again greens way buy a bigger house with a bit of land if it’s available where you live is the way to go it’s a win win , I live on a housing estate and can get 5 vehicles on my drive with ease . I see you have been in business for 20 years that’s the same as me we run two vans and I could easily expand and have at least 4 more but Ime not intrested in further expansion , I am suprised that someone with that amount of experience seams to be so unsure of expenses , the figures you have come up with I don’t spend that on running costs with two vans and the oldest one is 4 years old , I think rhetorical questions you need to be looking at are pricing of jobs , if one guy can only do £300 per day either he’s sitting in the van all afternoon drinking tea or the job prices are very low , again Ime not criticising your way of doing things but I have lots of friends running businesses like this from sloe traders to 12 van set ups and pricing is key as is getting the staff that want to work , offer realistic bonuses as has already been suggested providing they are achievable if the staff cannot do it you have the wrong staff , get rid off and get ones that can and will achieve the goals set that’s what I have done, give them a 3 month trial train them up how to do the job , it’s not that difficult we are only cleaning windows: plastic etc , you will go through a few staff to find the right ones but we know have very good staff that I can trust to go out and do the job to a high standard without supervision, there are lots of buisness running like this .its difficult to go from you as the owner doing Everton letting go and getting staff to do the job , years ago when I started sending staff to do jobs I got some complaints not that they had done a poor job but the customer wanted to see me there doing there properties I explained I cannot do everything, if they won’t accept that then they have to become an ex customer , expanding a buisness isn’t easy I found it hard to let go and get others to do what I had been doing it’s a leap of faith but with the right employees it will pay dividends , good luck. If you do go for it 

Share this post


Link to post
Clisty1989

@Damo I'm surprised you've not added your insight? Don't you have loads of vans out?

Share this post


Link to post
Damo
16 minutes ago, Clisty1989 said:

@Damo I'm surprised you've not added your insight? Don't you have loads of vans out?

 

I don’t employ bud, i franchised my business back in 2015. I have 5, with 6 and 7 on route within a couple of months 🙂 

Share this post


Link to post
Clisty1989
2 hours ago, Damo said:

 

I don’t employ bud, i franchised my business back in 2015. I have 5, with 6 and 7 on route within a couple of months 🙂 

Knew you had several vans out, wasn't sure how you went about it though. What made you decide franchise over employment if you don't mind me asking?

Edited by Clisty1989

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
17 hours ago, Pjj said:

 

 

Greens comments are spot on i dont seam to agree with him often unfortunately 😂😂😂 but what he has said is 100% right , I know of several operators near me that run multi van operations from home , I accept they have houses with off road parking but we run two vans like this and I know others do it with up to 10 vans , there is no need for a buisness premesis again greens way buy a bigger house with a bit of land if it’s available where you live is the way to go it’s a win win , I live on a housing estate and can get 5 vehicles on my drive with ease . I see you have been in business for 20 years that’s the same as me we run two vans and I could easily expand and have at least 4 more but Ime not intrested in further expansion , I am suprised that someone with that amount of experience seams to be so unsure of expenses , the figures you have come up with I don’t spend that on running costs with two vans and the oldest one is 4 years old , I think rhetorical questions you need to be looking at are pricing of jobs , if one guy can only do £300 per day either he’s sitting in the van all afternoon drinking tea or the job prices are very low , again Ime not criticising your way of doing things but I have lots of friends running businesses like this from sloe traders to 12 van set ups and pricing is key as is getting the staff that want to work , offer realistic bonuses as has already been suggested providing they are achievable if the staff cannot do it you have the wrong staff , get rid off and get ones that can and will achieve the goals set that’s what I have done, give them a 3 month trial train them up how to do the job , it’s not that difficult we are only cleaning windows: plastic etc , you will go through a few staff to find the right ones but we know have very good staff that I can trust to go out and do the job to a high standard without supervision, there are lots of buisness running like this .its difficult to go from you as the owner doing Everton letting go and getting staff to do the job , years ago when I started sending staff to do jobs I got some complaints not that they had done a poor job but the customer wanted to see me there doing there properties I explained I cannot do everything, if they won’t accept that then they have to become an ex customer , expanding a buisness isn’t easy I found it hard to let go and get others to do what I had been doing it’s a leap of faith but with the right employees it will pay dividends , good luck. If you do go for it 

Some good points there and as I mentioned earlier it’s refreshing to hear different opinions. I have been at it a while now but not always working for myself so I wouldn’t class myself as an expert on the business side of things. I did use my own figures to come up with the estimates but I inflated them a little as I thought there would be extra expenses involved when getting bigger and I also prefer to over estimate things rather than under. I’m still a little sceptical as to wether a new emoloyee with 0 experience and only the training being given could reach targets of around 4/500 or even 600 per day. I’m only getting that now on my higher priced commercial work. Maybe your right and it’s my prices on my smaller houses that aren’t up to scratch but I’m still averaging a good 50 per hour which I thought was quite reasonable. There is a guy near me that has I think 4/5 vans out but he specialises in commercial and another slightly bigger commercial op that does other types of cleaning as well as windows so maybe that’s were the money is. Don’t really know of any large scale domestic window cleaners apart from the nationals so I’d not much to go off until I came on here. Cheers for the insight, much appreciated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Cleanco
8 hours ago, Damo said:

 

I don’t employ bud, i franchised my business back in 2015. I have 5, with 6 and 7 on route within a couple of months 🙂 

Would you say that franchising is the best way to go? I’ve never really looked into that. Not sure exactly how this works, do you charge them a monthly amount or do they just buy the franchise outright with one lump sum? I’m guessing whichever way there’s less expense involved as you won’t have to deal with the employee side of things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Damo
6 hours ago, Clisty1989 said:

Knew you had several vans out, wasn't sure how you went about it though. What made you decide franchise over employment if you don't mind me asking?

 

Tried employing twice and got screwed both times. One stole work and the other landed me with complaints galore. 

 

It’s been a rollercoaster of a journey but cracked it in the last year or so now. 

 

Its very complicated if you want to do it correctly. 

2 minutes ago, Cleanco said:

Would you say that franchising is the best way to go? I’ve never really looked into that. Not sure exactly how this works, do you charge them a monthly amount or do they just buy the franchise outright with one lump sum? I’m guessing whichever way there’s less expense involved as you won’t have to deal with the employee side of things. 

 

Most work on investment and then a % of turnover, that’s how mine works as well. 

 

I wouldn’t say it the way to go it just depends on what you want from life. If you’re after as much money as possible then it would be employing, if you want a simpler life then it would be franchising. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
8 hours ago, Cleanco said:

Some good points there and as I mentioned earlier it’s refreshing to hear different opinions. I have been at it a while now but not always working for myself so I wouldn’t class myself as an expert on the business side of things. I did use my own figures to come up with the estimates but I inflated them a little as I thought there would be extra expenses involved when getting bigger and I also prefer to over estimate things rather than under. I’m still a little sceptical as to wether a new emoloyee with 0 experience and only the training being given could reach targets of around 4/500 or even 600 per day. I’m only getting that now on my higher priced commercial work. Maybe your right and it’s my prices on my smaller houses that aren’t up to scratch but I’m still averaging a good 50 per hour which I thought was quite reasonable. There is a guy near me that has I think 4/5 vans out but he specialises in commercial and another slightly bigger commercial op that does other types of cleaning as well as windows so maybe that’s were the money is. Don’t really know of any large scale domestic window cleaners apart from the nationals so I’d not much to go off until I came on here. Cheers for the insight, much appreciated. 

 

 

If you are doing £50 per hour that’s good , there is no reason after a bit of time and training an employee should with in reason be able to do the same . I agree it’s always better to over estimate expenses than under . We are probably 70-80% domestic the rest is commercial, out of choise I would just do commercial but down hear there isn’t as much of it to be able to do that .  We lost a commercial contract years ago just beacause the company decided to go with national contractors 25k is a lot to loose , we did get the contract back 3 years later and have been doing it for the last 10 + years but it’s a big hit , I learned a valuable lesson don’t put all your eggs in one basket with work , I think the best is a mix of domestic and commercial, I now view domestic as bread and butter work and commercial as a nice extra but if I loose it it won’t put me out of buisness 

Share this post


Link to post
Davopz
On 12/11/2012 at 09:50, rcproperty said:

Hi all, I tried downloading the files but they open empty. Would you know why? Could someone repost them for me? Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
On 08/01/2019 at 21:48, Mabozzer said:

Down south you'll get it easier though, 2010 guys were hardly out for about 4 weeks. Last winter was also pretty bad and during the winter the working hours are reduced so you've only got a Saturday for OT

 

 

We have never gone more than a few days that we couldn’t work due to the weather wind is worse than rain we work in light rain but not monsoon conditions 😂😂😂

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.