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opinions please

simon

Well-known member
Messages
1,561
Location
cumbria
my lad's decided he will try n make a proper go of window cleaning so,

how much does it cost to take him as a full employee??

can i make him go self employed & give him some work which he will give me a % of ??

/emoticons/sad.png or is it all doomed to stress & fall outs lol

 
Depending on what you pay him somewhere between 80-109£ per day.

That's allowing for pay/tax/holiday pay etc.

He would be better being self employed obviously.

 
This is an interesting dilemma.

From 8-5 each day can you treat him as an employee as opposed to a son? If so take him under your wing and give him the benefit of your experience and guidance.

Alternatively if he is ready to give you a run for your money, set him up on his own with a van and gear and then share out the work load, instead of taking a percentage look at it as securing your boys future, also as tow separate companies you can pass work here and there and possible legitimately stay below the VAT threshold with you both being on good earnings.

 
round our way people pay between 40 & 90 per day for workers. They often pay cash and see it as the workers responsibility to sort tax and ni and effectively they are self employed. pay peanuts get monkeys.

 
They will have a shock when HMRC catch up and tell them otherwise.
Simply paying someone cash in hand does not make them self employed.
im not saying that's how it should be done. I had my lad sign a waiver to say he is to take care of his own ni and tax. I recommended getting an accountant. The work is subcontracted to him officially. There is no proof of ownership on the work.

 
Where I live there are at least 25 window cleaning businesses in the town alone and they cover pretty much all of Cheshire. I think there's at least 100 lads getting paid cash in hand

 
@dt clean there are probably more than 25 just in my postcode of NG4 alone. Just because there are many doing it it does not make it legal, I personally think we should all do things in a 100% legit manor then perhaps people will stop perceiving window cleaners as 'cash in hand top up the beer money' types and start taking us as serious businesses.
 
oh dear i aready give him cash, he's a good worker, faster than me horrible little get lol,

but say i took him on at £12 an hr how much would that cost me inc stamp,holiday ,insurance etc

& do i have to give him a definate amount of hrs

 
@simon you only need to give him the hours he is contracted to.

£12 ph as employee? Can i have the job? /emoticons/smile.png)

I pay mine £10 and consider that fair.

Now you have to set asside £2.40 for tax possibly another 50p for stamp od hes cost you nearly £15.

This is why you put them on the book because then their taxes and stamps are deducted from their salaries not you having to add more on top.

 
cheers green, i think now if i take him on properly & we build up my round together, then i can gradually let him have the work i dont want as his own round.

or could i give him a % of my round & we both work it as self employed

 
My worker Danny gives me £200 a week and he keeps what he earns to himself. He works by himself, as do I, he works from 8 til 4 and has no problem wacking out £200 - £240 a day. He soughts out his own tax, n.i etc.

This way he earns good money, I get a little earner and if he wants time off or wants to finish early etc, it doesn't bother me.

In 5 years time his morgage finishes and I have promised him he can pay me monthly and buy the round that he does off me. This gives him an incentive, and keeps us both happy. Hope this helps Simon, and good luck

 
£12 an hour? Jesus, let me sell my van and you can give me a job pleasey.

At £12 an hour over the year that would work out to be costing you about 30k roughly. Allowing for everything including holiday.

£10 is too much as well.

I appreciate he is your son, my father started me off on min wage when i was 18 and i had to earn a decent wage.

At £12 an hour, in reality hes gonna be costing you £16-£20 per hour. BEFORE you have taken on any expense, equipment, fuel,vans,insurance etc.

What ever he can get by law as his min. Round it up to the nearest £ then start off on 3 month probation.

If you are putting him in a second van eventually. He needs to be doing £280 a day minimum to make the effort worth while

 
:thumbsdown: blimey @Damo no way i can afford that , on average we do £250 -300 a day thats about 6 hrs & i give him 25% cash so i thought £10 an hr would be ok for employed

@steve garwood that sounds like what im after, how did you work out what amount he gives you

 
Do you mean the two of you achieve 250-300?

I'm not saying you HAVE to do £280 but after all the maths I did and confirmed. £200 a day it just ain't worth the hassle. That's from employing point of view. Just in wage costs it's going be close to a £100-£110 a day plus expenses.

Being your son. Hassle would be less.

 
yeah thats 2 of us ,if i'm on my own im more than happy with £150 a day, i can do more but not every day, im getting better work but slowly which was fine just for me

my ex has an uncle who might sort my lad out with a van & gear & im just looking at ways of getting him up n running

 
Simon

You could make him a partner. Give him a 25% share of the business and continue to work together. You still have overall control until he is at a stage where you believe he could hold the reins equally.

Then you take a weekly/monthly drawings (wages) and he does the same at what ever rate you have agreed. This is just off the top of my head, but I can't see any flaws.

 
You would be surprised what it cost to employ someone at a good wage

I used to do it the dodgy way when i subbed off the same guy daily for 8 years

Tecnically after 12 weeks working for the same company you are an employee and also the company are liable for holidays and sick etc

Hmrc love to catch out people like that as a few people i know have found out over the years to their surprise..not worth the risk in my opinion

Don't give them any rope to hang you with

 
SimonYou could make him a partner. Give him a 25% share of the business and continue to work together. You still have overall control until he is at a stage where you believe he could hold the reins equally.

Then you take a weekly/monthly drawings (wages) and he does the same at what ever rate you have agreed. This is just off the top of my head, but I can't see any flaws.
so would he go self employed then

 
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