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WFP not drying properly on some windows

Nudel

Well-known member
Messages
1,064
Location
Faroe Islands
Just had a talk with a customer that was not satisfied with my previous clean. She didn't say anything back then and just paid (even though I specifically told her to tell me if it didn't dry properly). But it turned out there were still drops of water on the window which did disappear. I of course offered them a discount now.

I did it with 0 PPM RO only water with my DIY brush. It was a first clean so they were very dirty.

So, anyone else had issue with this?

I'm getting a bit worried as the some types of windows I encounter does leave different beading of the droplets. This could be why some customers doesn't call back, which of course is bad for reputation and business.

 
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you mean the drops of water on the window did disappear or didn't disappear?

With first cleans you need to spend extra time scrubbing and rinsing, I usually spend twice as long on a first clean compared to a maintenance clean and I see this as an investment. If she is unhappy with the first clean just offer the next clean free of charge.

 
After 10 years we still do a really good scrub of frames and windows, leave them to dry off and then redo the glass only. You can be certain that things will be much better from the second and third clean.

We found it best never to accept payment until you (the window cleaner) are 100% certain those windows are cleaned to an acceptable standard. On a new customer that means several checks to ensure that standard.

I haven't cleaned the rear windows of our house for about 6 months. I did them the other day, rinsed well and they dried with numerous white spots in runs from the top frame. I was using a back pack and my son has it on a low flow setting.

If a customer tells you afterward that they aren't happy with the clean (you've checked each window) then they were only wanting a once only clean. If the windows were dirty before, then there was a special occassion they needed clean windows for.

The occassions gone, now back to dirty windows.

This is why you charge a first clean premium as its going to cost time to get first cleans up to standard.

 
you have to be carefull sometimes the customer isnt just being awkward, ive had it recently where 1 customer complained, i checked the windows and they were perfect. But thinking about it they have been awkward the last few times and they admitted they wanted to cancel. So always check yourself

Other than that it can be only two things

1. PPM isnt 0

2. Rinsing - there need to be nothing but pure water on the glass and frames when you leave, no drips from the top frame, vents or the wall, no dodgy seals holding muck etc.

On a first clean i personally clean the top frames and rinse properly, i then crub the rest of the frame and glass and sill, rinse it all off then stick a microfibre towel on the brush head and dry off the top frame. Then re-rinse the glass. thats first clean only from then on i avoid top frames and vents where possible - that is unless they are obviously dirty. lower windows i tend to knock off cob webs with a dry brush or cloth first then clean as normal.

 
I always clean the top frame

It is joined obviously to the sides and bottom of the frame so looks out of place if you don't touch it

Above the frame however depends on if it needs it or not

First clean i clean everything as 1..frames,above frames, glass and sills then once i have done the rest on that side of the house go back and rinse over them again

Always a perfect job then

 
Thank you for your replies everyone!

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you mean the drops of water on the window did disappear or didn't disappear?
With first cleans you need to spend extra time scrubbing and rinsing, I usually spend twice as long on a first clean compared to a maintenance clean and I see this as an investment. If she is unhappy with the first clean just offer the next clean free of charge.
The drops of water did not disappear. I did spend a lot of time scrubbing the frames, but didn't come back for a second clean and rinse. Thank you for your insight!

After 10 years we still do a really good scrub of frames and windows, leave them to dry off and then redo the glass only. You can be certain that things will be much better from the second and third clean.
We found it best never to accept payment until you (the window cleaner) are 100% certain those windows are cleaned to an acceptable standard. On a new customer that means several checks to ensure that standard.

I haven't cleaned the rear windows of our house for about 6 months. I did them the other day, rinsed well and they dried with numerous white spots in runs from the top frame. I was using a back pack and my son has it on a low flow setting.

If a customer tells you afterward that they aren't happy with the clean (you've checked each window) then they were only wanting a once only clean. If the windows were dirty before, then there was a special occassion they needed clean windows for.

The occassions gone, now back to dirty windows.

This is why you charge a first clean premium as its going to cost time to get first cleans up to standard.
Well said. I did do the outside first and then the inside, and I should have noticed they didn't dry properly after the 30 minutes it took to clean indoors, and then redone the outside. So the result not being on par is all on me on this one.

And yes, she did pay a first time premium price (hourly wage), which I always charge.

My customers all pay per bank transfer, and I was hoping they would tell me if something was not properly done instead of just paying.. But oh well.

2. Rinsing - there need to be nothing but pure water on the glass and frames when you leave, no drips from the top frame, vents or the wall, no dodgy seals holding muck etc.

On a first clean i personally clean the top frames and rinse properly, i then crub the rest of the frame and glass and sill, rinse it all off then stick a microfibre towel on the brush head and dry off the top frame. Then re-rinse the glass. thats first clean only from then on i avoid top frames and vents where possible - that is unless they are obviously dirty. lower windows i tend to knock off cob webs with a dry brush or cloth first then clean as normal.
Good workflow! There were probably some dirt in the water droplets even though I did take my time to scrub the entire frame.

I always clean the top frameIt is joined obviously to the sides and bottom of the frame so looks out of place if you don't touch it

Above the frame however depends on if it needs it or not

First clean i clean everything as 1..frames,above frames, glass and sills then once i have done the rest on that side of the house go back and rinse over them again

Always a perfect job then
Seems like my issue is the second rinse. Thank you all very much for the suggestions, I'll clean them again monday and see how it goes.

Since she understandable wasn't happy with my sub par clean she called a different cleaner/company. The thing is I do some rounds for that company on commission, so it turned out a little awkward when it turns out she'll get the same cleaner anyway. /emoticons/tongue.png

 
So, did the customer yesterday and spent about twice the time on cleaning and rinsing, going back several times to rinse again. Water read 000-001PPM.

They still looked like this.

View attachment 8632

After 30 minutes they had dried a little more, perhaps 50% of the drops were left. There was also spotting from when I did the clean three-four weeks ago. This was mostly on the lower 5 cm on the bottom glass, some of the top windows dried fine.

Just to give you an idea of how the windows behaved, this is a door on the same house. The water doesn't sheet when rinsing, but leaves drops all over. Could it be silicone from the mounting of the glass?

View attachment 8633

I ended up running a 10cm squeegee across the bottom parts and buffing off with a cloth.

 
I've learnt that a smooth and consistant water cascade over the glass at the finish will eliminate the spots. Go over the glass from top to bottom with just the jets, no brush. If there are areas where the dirt hasn't completely come off the glass, you'll notice as the water won't trickle down as smoothly as where it is truely clean. If you spot this, then go over that area again before repeating the process

 
Wooden window frames are going to take some time to come right. Most are OK after a few cleans but we have one which we blade the windows off at the end.

Not ideal, but we could spend hours messing on. We are on the coast which doesn't help.

I would also blade the door windows down and detail it. See what happens after the next clean. My question is why rain water isn't causing it to streak or leave spots.

We had one south facing window on a new clean years ago which just ran milky white from the UPVC window frames. We cleaned it three times on the initial clean with the same results. Eventually dried the window frame, bladed the window and resolved to try again next clean schedule. If it did the same thing then we would stop doing the customer.

On the second clean the windows dried perfectly. Why? Still haven't worked it out to this day.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are you sure its not your tds? thats what it looks like to me.

Try this, when you clean that house again, make sure you wipe off all the top frames with a microfibre or the door so that no drips can drip onto the glass. Then just clean and rinse the glass, if it still spots it has to be the tds..(could be a seal but not likely on wood)

 
I've learnt that a smooth and consistant water cascade over the glass at the finish will eliminate the spots. Go over the glass from top to bottom with just the jets, no brush. If there are areas where the dirt hasn't completely come off the glass, you'll notice as the water won't trickle down as smoothly as where it is truely clean. If you spot this, then go over that area again before repeating the process
Yes, this is the technique I use. Problem is, these and some other windows just refuses to let the water sheet properly. And even if I get a sheet going for a little while it dries up into drops anyway.

Wooden window frames are going to take some time to come right. Most are OK after a few cleans but we have one which we blade the windows off at the end.Not ideal, but we could spend hours messing on. We are on the coast which doesn't help.

I would also blade the door windows down and detail it. See what happens after the next clean. My question is why rain water isn't causing it to streak or leave spots.

We had one south facing window on a new clean years ago which just ran milky white from the UPVC window frames. We cleaned it three times on the initial clean with the same results. Eventually dried the window frame, bladed the window and resolved to try again next clean schedule. If it did the same thing then we would stop doing the customer.

On the second clean the windows dried perfectly. Why? Still haven't worked it out to this day.
Yes, it's quite weird.

Here are a few windows from a different customer yesterday. The first image is through one side of the building, and the windows are spotless. The second are a different side, and they leave drops all over. The picture is after about 45 minutes of drying.

View attachment 8638

View attachment 8639

Are you sure its not your tds? thats what it looks like to me.
Try this, when you clean that house again, make sure you wipe off all the top frames with a microfibre or the door so that no drips can drip onto the glass. Then just clean and rinse the glass, if it still spots it has to be the tds..(could be a seal but not likely on wood)
I measured the water from the same 25litre I cleaned with. TDS read 000-001. I cleaned a lot of other windows that day that ended up spotless.

Am I missing something here but looking at the pictures on my phone just looks as if the spots just have not dried yet don't look like spotting but could just be how pics look on phone?
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Problem is these spots doesn't dry properly. And they leave visible white spots once they do dry up.

I was thinking that, maybe its something to do with the humidity and temperature?
Could be. My guess is the surface of the glass is damaged. Some windows that are close to a raw concrete surface have a milky white raw surface due to splashback from rain hitting the concrete. And some windows with metal frames have visible damaged streaks where the rain have transferred metal fragments to the glass.

I believe the bottom part of these windows could be damaged from splashback of rain water hitting the bottom metal sill, leaving an uneven surface that prevents the pure water from sheeting off properly.

Some other windows that have this issue could be silicone residue left on the glass after production or installation.

 
Spots on hydrophobic glass do take a long time to dry off completely.

I cleaned my house yesterday and its all hydrophobic and it didnt dry for over an hour.

Now sometimes if the wind is bad and blowing a lot of dust around this can cause spots as before the water evaporates completely the dust gets blown up and stuck to the water droplets.

But other than that im lost with this one

 
spotting most of the time is from the top rubber that holds the glass in but some times in realy hot sun they can dry to quick in these cases u just need to go very slow for get speed just take time when brushing i go up down till the glass is all wet then up down again then side to side all the way down then a finel rince this is on hot days this gives a spot 3 clean 90 percent of the time some times u need to do thois twice , i can tell if a window will dry ok just buy looking at it after ive cleaned it this is sadly something u cant teach very well it just takes experence

 
Am I missing something are we talking about the droplets taking a long time to dry or the fact when they are dry they leave dirty spots? Some glass will sheet some won't what matter is how they are when they have finally dried.

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Sorry for the slow replies guys!

Spots on hydrophobic glass do take a long time to dry off completely.
I cleaned my house yesterday and its all hydrophobic and it didnt dry for over an hour.

Now sometimes if the wind is bad and blowing a lot of dust around this can cause spots as before the water evaporates completely the dust gets blown up and stuck to the water droplets.

But other than that im lost with this one
I don't believe the main windows (with small, green frames) were hydrophobic. But windows does tend to dry a bit slow here due to the high humidity.

The second job I posted might very well be hydrophobic one one side of the building only?

The windows you have trouble with are they south facing?
More west, south-west I believe.

spotting most of the time is from the top rubber that holds the glass in but some times in realy hot sun they can dry to quick in these cases u just need to go very slow for get speed just take time when brushing i go up down till the glass is all wet then up down again then side to side all the way down then a finel rince this is on hot days this gives a spot 3 clean 90 percent of the time some times u need to do thois twice , i can tell if a window will dry ok just buy looking at it after ive cleaned it this is sadly something u cant teach very well it just takes experence
Yes, there can absolutely be a problem with hot glass and quick drying, I have a customer I always go over twice if it happens to be sunny, just because of this issue.

I thought I pretty much could see when a window needed a second clean to get perfect, but I understand I must need some more experience with this.

Am I missing something are we talking about the droplets taking a long time to dry or the fact when they are dry they leave dirty spots? Some glass will sheet some won't what matter is how they are when they have finally dried.
Both, I guess. From what I understood, the droplets didn't dry even after several hours. But this is a customer speaking, so the statement should be taken with a grain of salt of course.

Weird thing is I have a mate who used to clean the same customer as I linked last, and he says he got zero droplets on it. He does use hot water and a higher flow than me though.

I will try increasing my flow rate to get a better sheeting, and when I see troublesome windows I will return to the customer a few hours later and check the results. My brush might be in need of a pure water bath as well...

 
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