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That Old Chestnut Pricing

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sam walton

Hi lads,

been asked to tender for a ground floor furniture shop, 12 windows in all, each window is 9 feet by 9 feet, price they want is for inside and out, I want to get this right, I would sooner undercharge and rob myself, than overcharge and lose it entirely.

What is the correct pricing formula.

Geordie sam.

Haway the lads.

 
^

Simple systems which can undermine your business.

What are your costs for the job?

Fuel is a variable.

What are the fixed costs you pay each month, insurances and taxes etc.

Don't price fixed totally on money per hour, as this will only work for a while and will not genuinely profit you in the long term.

I priced a job up the other day which sounds similar to yours.

It was 3-4minutes drive away first of all, so I added a small charge either way to pay for the fuel and time.

I then looked at the fact I pay for insurance, taxes for the job and based on it's size and a personal system of pricing I've developed for my business which I shall keep to myself, I added a £5.00 charge added for business expenses for just the one job.

So already without me doing work, the potential customer will be covering my business bills.

I then when arriving look round the job for a basic idea of what amount of work there will be in time and size. and using a system of price per unit I use the units to put together a add a rough price.

I look to see what state the windows were in and asked the owner when they were last done and how often he would want them doing.

If they're bad and were done recently I take it into consideration as some jobs get muckier quicker (for example, chip shops have grease from customers hands and grease in the air to make the windows worse, and as such take more time, effort and cleaning chemicals).

This equals a percentage on to the units figure.

I also look to see wether steps or ladders would be needed, and both increase the RISK of:

injury to myself and others,

wear and tear of cleaning equipment,

damage to property,

time.

So these are only a small amount of the factors I take into my quotes.

For small jobs like chip shops, salons and post offices I have a different system and spend only 2minutes making a quote as they're straight forward and use little factors.

But jobs like this I spend around 5-10minutes using rough variables and fixed prices to get a quote. I have a pricing sheet with figures on I can take for the job.

I will get a figure in the end I will meditate on and if certain outside factors may affect this I may change it to fit the job.

I look at how the price (including adding personal and business targets for monies needing to be earned) will profit myself and keep the business going.

I then discuss the quote with the customer and why the price has been achieved, which may or may not help them come to terms with such a high or low price or at least let them know I take care and consideration to benefit the customer and myself and reach a mutual goal.

It sounds complicated but by doing this I never rob myself or the customer, and for all you doubters I have had ONLY ONE customer cancel my services based on price in the last 2 years.

Every business is different.

Wanting to earn so much an hour won't work, as one day you may want to earn 20 an hour while you're able to walk to all your work from home and have little overheads yet when any small changes happen your wage is immediately affected. Yet looking at all aspects of your business and how it affects your pricing will help long term.

I get the feeling my comment will get scoffed at as over complicating things, yet, not having the businesses finances in mind when taking on work isn't logical, helpful or at all smart business practise.

Buying Richard's book; Winning at Window Cleaning has helped me on this regard.

Some of the idea's I've mentioned come from his book, and as such I have left some out.

Take more thought into your work and don't rob yourself, no big business robs itself, and if they can't afford to, then small businesses will survive if they do.

You only need to spend 20-30 minutes taking into consideration costs, and then using this information make an informed decision.

Robbing yourself will make you resent a job, believe me.

 
That sounds complicated, but it's one in the morning and I'm knackered. Will edit it in the daylight. lol

 
Masons has kindly taken the time explaining to you, that you need to look at your own business to get the price. This way you will win more work, price in your favour and still be competitive.

After you have done this, it’s just a case to price any new work above you current prices. It should be an ongoing process, because you are always increasing your prices with each new customer.

It’s very easy to implement and takes no extra time than usual to price, once you have those handful of key figures. Without those figures, you’re guessing.

Richard

 
^

Simple systems which can undermine your business.

What are your costs for the job?

Fuel is a variable.

What are the fixed costs you pay each month, insurances and taxes etc.

Don't price fixed totally on money per hour, as this will only work for a while and will not genuinely profit you in the long term.

I priced a job up the other day which sounds similar to yours.

It was 3-4minutes drive away first of all, so I added a small charge either way to pay for the fuel and time.

I then looked at the fact I pay for insurance, taxes for the job and based on it's size and a personal system of pricing I've developed for my business which I shall keep to myself, I added a £5.00 charge added for business expenses for just the one job.

So already without me doing work, the potential customer will be covering my business bills.

I then when arriving look round the job for a basic idea of what amount of work there will be in time and size. and using a system of price per unit I use the units to put together a add a rough price.

I look to see what state the windows were in and asked the owner when they were last done and how often he would want them doing.

If they're bad and were done recently I take it into consideration as some jobs get muckier quicker (for example, chip shops have grease from customers hands and grease in the air to make the windows worse, and as such take more time, effort and cleaning chemicals).

This equals a percentage on to the units figure.

I also look to see wether steps or ladders would be needed, and both increase the RISK of:

injury to myself and others,

wear and tear of cleaning equipment,

damage to property,

time.

So these are only a small amount of the factors I take into my quotes.

For small jobs like chip shops, salons and post offices I have a different system and spend only 2minutes making a quote as they're straight forward and use little factors.

But jobs like this I spend around 5-10minutes using rough variables and fixed prices to get a quote. I have a pricing sheet with figures on I can take for the job.

I will get a figure in the end I will meditate on and if certain outside factors may affect this I may change it to fit the job.

I look at how the price (including adding personal and business targets for monies needing to be earned) will profit myself and keep the business going.

I then discuss the quote with the customer and why the price has been achieved, which may or may not help them come to terms with such a high or low price or at least let them know I take care and consideration to benefit the customer and myself and reach a mutual goal.

It sounds complicated but by doing this I never rob myself or the customer, and for all you doubters I have had ONLY ONE customer cancel my services based on price in the last 2 years.

Every business is different.

Wanting to earn so much an hour won't work, as one day you may want to earn 20 an hour while you're able to walk to all your work from home and have little overheads yet when any small changes happen your wage is immediately affected. Yet looking at all aspects of your business and how it affects your pricing will help long term.

I get the feeling my comment will get scoffed at as over complicating things, yet, not having the businesses finances in mind when taking on work isn't logical, helpful or at all smart business practise.

Buying Richard's book; Winning at Window Cleaning has helped me on this regard.

Some of the idea's I've mentioned come from his book, and as such I have left some out.

Take more thought into your work and don't rob yourself, no big business robs itself, and if they can't afford to, then small businesses will survive if they do.

You only need to spend 20-30 minutes taking into consideration costs, and then using this information make an informed decision.

Robbing yourself will make you resent a job, believe me.
Click to expand...
It sounds allright to me

 
I agree that it sounds ok but Im with MK on this one.

Just work out how much you want to earn per hour!!!!

This includes fuel, insurance etc SURELY!

Then work out how long the job will take.

Thats your price.

I really do think that people try to over complicate window cleaning!

Its a good skilled and honest pfofession/trade but lets be honest itys not complicated!

 
I agree it is simple and not complicated, but you still need to know some things, and if he is operating a business and then ask a very basic question like - how much do I charge? What does that tell you?

What if he wants £35 or even £65 per hour, does the job fit in with what he has planned in the first place? If not, then how does he actually achieve his target hourly rate? Give the customer a price and stand firm! Wouldn’t that be a waste of his time if he kept on doing this with quotes? You do need a plan, just a basic plan will do, there the best sort anyway.

Richard

 
some things annoy me, like you adding money if you have to use a ladder/step ladder, or if you have to drive for 3/4 minutes to a job, etc, your a window cleaner, that is your basic job so you shouldnt charge extra for it, all jobs should be based on time, on how long it will take you to do the work, as long as the figure per hour your working from covers everything,(fuel, insurance, etc) + profit. that way everyone has to pay the same price per hour so your not ripping anyone off, unlike pricing everyone up individually for what you think you can get.out of them.

i dont care if you read it in a book, or if you wrote the book, that doesnt make you right or give you the right to say anyone not doing it your way is doing it wrong. how can having a standard hourly rate that covers your business costs and includes profit be wrong?

 
^

Simple systems which can undermine your business.

What are your costs for the job?

Fuel is a variable.

What are the fixed costs you pay each month, insurances and taxes etc.

Don't price fixed totally on money per hour, as this will only work for a while and will not genuinely profit you in the long term.

I priced a job up the other day which sounds similar to yours.

It was 3-4minutes drive away first of all, so I added a small charge either way to pay for the fuel and time.

I then looked at the fact I pay for insurance, taxes for the job and based on it's size and a personal system of pricing I've developed for my business which I shall keep to myself, I added a £5.00 charge added for business expenses for just the one job.

So already without me doing work, the potential customer will be covering my business bills.

I then when arriving look round the job for a basic idea of what amount of work there will be in time and size. and using a system of price per unit I use the units to put together a add a rough price.

I look to see what state the windows were in and asked the owner when they were last done and how often he would want them doing.

If they're bad and were done recently I take it into consideration as some jobs get muckier quicker (for example, chip shops have grease from customers hands and grease in the air to make the windows worse, and as such take more time, effort and cleaning chemicals).

This equals a percentage on to the units figure.

I also look to see wether steps or ladders would be needed, and both increase the RISK of:

injury to myself and others,

wear and tear of cleaning equipment,

damage to property,

time.

So these are only a small amount of the factors I take into my quotes.

For small jobs like chip shops, salons and post offices I have a different system and spend only 2minutes making a quote as they're straight forward and use little factors.

But jobs like this I spend around 5-10minutes using rough variables and fixed prices to get a quote. I have a pricing sheet with figures on I can take for the job.

I will get a figure in the end I will meditate on and if certain outside factors may affect this I may change it to fit the job.

I look at how the price (including adding personal and business targets for monies needing to be earned) will profit myself and keep the business going.

I then discuss the quote with the customer and why the price has been achieved, which may or may not help them come to terms with such a high or low price or at least let them know I take care and consideration to benefit the customer and myself and reach a mutual goal.

It sounds complicated but by doing this I never rob myself or the customer, and for all you doubters I have had ONLY ONE customer cancel my services based on price in the last 2 years.

Every business is different.

Wanting to earn so much an hour won't work, as one day you may want to earn 20 an hour while you're able to walk to all your work from home and have little overheads yet when any small changes happen your wage is immediately affected. Yet looking at all aspects of your business and how it affects your pricing will help long term.

I get the feeling my comment will get scoffed at as over complicating things, yet, not having the businesses finances in mind when taking on work isn't logical, helpful or at all smart business practise.

Buying Richard's book; Winning at Window Cleaning has helped me on this regard.

Some of the idea's I've mentioned come from his book, and as such I have left some out.

Take more thought into your work and don't rob yourself, no big business robs itself, and if they can't afford to, then small businesses will survive if they do.

You only need to spend 20-30 minutes taking into consideration costs, and then using this information make an informed decision.

Robbing yourself will make you resent a job, believe me.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Masons, after reading "your formula" I think you are wasted cleaning windows, I honestly think you should go into Space rocket design, cos youv'e certainly turned it into a science. But seriously thank you for going into so much detail.I will try and make sense of it.

Thanks.

 
Masons that's great & if it works for you that's great. But to me just to price a few windows up I think it was a hell of a lot. I think I'll stick to the way I do it as it hasn't let me down let yet & to be honest if I sat there & did all that I'd be there half hour working it out. Lol

 
GM.

I never said things were wrong I don't think. I just stated that such formulas can undermine you.

An you saying ladders are a PART OF WINDOW CLEANING?

NO!

I use my ladders once a week max.

In the title window cleaner, where does it say ladder?

And this is my formula, everyone else can use their own.

Your formula of working out an hourly rate including "business costs and profit" isn't a bad formula, as you obviously know what your business needs and wants are... Don't think I can't read.

Working out an what you want in an hour is different and offers no insight on how people get an hourly rate they want.

It's not really a formula, more of a pick a number that sounds good.

You say "that way everyone has to pay the same price per hour so your not ripping anyone off, unlike pricing everyone up individually for what you think you can get.out of them."

I question this as:

I spend 7 hours on one job, getting paid £20 per hour, which is the "how much you want to earn per hour" rate.

The job consists of cleaning a 3 story building and gets cleaned once every 6 months.

This job takes great risk and cannot be properly estimated time-wise depending on the fact 6months worth of muck is different depending on season and many other factors.

That should be priced up the same as a 6 window coffee shop that gets cleaned weekly, can all be cleaned without ladders or poles, is set back from roads and has shutters while its shut?

Each to their own I guess on that one.

Each to their own.

 
I agree GM I think you have hit the nail on the head!

Richard............Really????

£65 per hour etc etc.

If someone wants to earn that then good luck to them but you have to be realistic!

My point was and is that you have to keep it simple.

I have also run a number of other profitable business in the past and the same applies to them, SIMPLE is best.

 
And posh, the majority of my work is commercial and £15-25 houses.

As I say, a different formula for each type of job.

It's finding the right formula for each kind of round in my eyes.

 
I agree GM I think you have hit the nail on the head!

Richard............Really????

£65 per hour etc etc.

If someone wants to earn that then good luck to them but you have to be realistic!

My point was and is that you have to keep it simple.

I have also run a number of other profitable business in the past and the same applies to them, SIMPLE is best.
Click to expand...
HAHAHAHA do you not know of big window cleaning companies?

A firend of mine and previous employer runs a window cleaning company with 6 employee's and 3 vans, how is he to pay 6 guys wages and insurance and maintenance etc on 3 vans ASWELL as cover for certain things like sickness, loss of work while earning less than £40 an hour.

Running a van and paying someone a full time wage with national insurance and holiday pay can be £30,000 easily.

Tell me how you're going to pay that on £20-30 an hour work?

Honestly, tell me that answer.

 
Oh, and with business premises you're talking an easy extra £10,000 a year.

£20 an hour will not cover it.

 
And posh, the majority of my work is commercial and £15-25 houses.

As I say, a different formula for each type of job.

It's finding the right formula for each kind of round in my eyes.
Click to expand...
I didn't disagree with you. As I said if it works for you that's great & hope you get what you want. What I'm saying is as for me I will stick to my way as it ain't failed me yet. I did think it was complicated but then I'm not the brightest spark on the planet & if I'm honest it has put me right off buying Richards book. I like to keep it simple which is why I use pen & paper instead of a programme on computer & don't use an accountant BUT full marks if it works for you.

 
^ Oh yeah I know you weren;t disagreeing pal.

Richards book isn't this complicated, and talks you through the process far better than I can.

I make it more complicated myself. But my range of jobs is high and it's what works for me.

If people can take even something from what other people say to help them then this forum works.

 

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