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Hse Information Sheet Misc613 Safety In Window Cleaning Using Portable Ladders .

Says on there class 3 ladders not reccomended. That means its our choice. Diddnt know that but know I'm under 15 stone lol. Interesting reading that Gav. Not as strict as I thought.

 
Looks like everything I have said about hse has rubbed off on some of you! Lol
To be honest mate I have always been health and safety orientated in every job I have done .

When I started work my first qualification was nvq lvl2 health and safety in the work place so it's always been part of me always

Been drummed into me .

 
To be honest mate I have always been health and safety orientated in every job I have done .

When I started work my first qualification was nvq lvl2 health and safety in the work place so it's always been part of me always

Been drummed into me .
Yer know the feeling, just shows you what you have to do these days!

 
Looks like everything I have said about hse has rubbed off on some of you! Lol
iv got to be honest rc, that document disagrees with alot of stuff you have said in the past,lol but still, good information to have at hand

 
like it says about working on flat roofs without a fall arrest harness or actual barriers, it simply states a marked off area or sufficient space from the edge is enough of a safeguard,

'Roofs should only be used for access when there is no other reasonably practicable way of safely reaching and cleaning the windows above the roof.'

'For domestic work above flat roofs

Before stepping onto the roof:



Make sure that the ladder is secure and cannot slide sideways (some ladder-top stability devices are an effective means of doing this). Extend the ladder at least 1 m above the stepping-off point.



Check the roof is wide enough to do your work safely without going too near the edge (making sure there is a width of 2 m is a useful rule of thumb which provides a margin of safety in the event of a slip or trip).



Make sure you know where the edge of the roof is.



Don’t step back to view your work.'

and regarding commercial work

'Safety is often simply achieved on the flat roof area of non-domestic buildings by the use of clearly barriered or marked safe areas or physical distance from the edge of the roof to the window.'

'If installed, any safety wire system or other suitable means of fall arrest must be used'

for example,lol

 
well no, obviously you can step off of a ladder at the edge of a roof and walk into the 2m range,lol. and that document is safeguards and advice more than legislation isnt it?

 
well no, obviously you can step off of a ladder at the edge of a roof and walk into the 2m range,lol. and that document is safeguards and advice more than legislation isnt it?
The most dangerous time is when you are stepping from the ladder onto the roof, that's where the h&s officer would look at how you are doing it and using the correct ladders and access point to the top of the ladder to prevent falls. That is telling people how to work in accordance with the legislation set by the hse.

 
I have had some dealing with HSE recently and they pretty much tell you its a no no, as there is no edge protection. There is very little common sense applied, they tell you it law, and that is that.

The lad I dealt with was very polite, and I had no problems that way, they just sent me out a copy of that pack, and advised me that it is not allowed, but I think there needs to be more info on what we have to do, to make it safe. Something less vague and reasonable steps, considering the short duration of the work we do.

As we want to be working in accordance with these guidelines to avoid any fine etc, we have instructed all our staff to use trad extension poles where they can with windows above roofs, and I am seriously considering, putting a van mount WFP into the two vans next year for awkward or high windows. God knows how that will work for us, as I live in a top floor flat, and standpipes are too expenses of the water board.

On another note I looked quite deeply into this, and it might be interesting to know that after this month, any investigation work they do to catch you breaking these rules, is going to be billed to you. Even if they spend 3k on a survaliance team to catch to stepping on a porch roof, to clean a little old dears window. Your going to get the bill.

 
Nice information laddergarder.

Can you not get one of. The lads houses that work for you to fill the vans up?? Or have a static system at parents or friends place?

 
I have had some dealing with HSE recently and they pretty much tell you its a no no, as there is no edge protection. There is very little common sense applied,

The lad I dealt with was very polite, and I had no problems that way, they just sent me out a copy of that pack, and advised me that it is not allowed, but I think there needs to be more info on what we have to do, to make it safe. Something less vague and reasonable steps, considering the short duration of the work we do.

As we want to be working in accordance with these guidelines to avoid any fine etc, we have instructed all our staff to use trad extension poles where they can with windows above roofs, and I am seriously considering, putting a van mount WFP into the two vans next year for awkward or high windows. God knows how that will work for us, as I live in a top floor flat, and standpipes are too expenses of the water board.

On another note I looked quite deeply into this, and it might be interesting to know that after this month, any investigation work they do to catch you breaking these rules, is going to be billed to you. Even if they spend 3k on a survaliance team to catch to stepping on a porch roof, to clean a little old dears window. Your going to get the bill.
well i dont know who you have had dealings with but maybe you should check your sources, its not law to have fall protection or barriers, as this h&s document clearly states, a risk assesment and working a suitable distance from the edge is sufficient.

you need to understand that there is a massive difference between law and guidelines. as a guideline to help you work safely advising of these measures will help you stay safe, but its NOT required by law

look at your first sentance...

'pretty much tell you its a no no' followed by 'they say its the law and thats that'

complete contradiction in terms

 
GM its always been my interpretation that they are guidelines as well. But after dealing with them, they make it clear that you are breaking the law. 2 meters is 6 ft, not all flats roofs on residential are that deep, so that rule wont get you out of it on every property.

In my opinion its barmey, I feel allot safer on a little flat roof 10ft off the ground, that at the top of a 27 ft pair of triple ladders. But according to HSE the 27ft ladder that can be blown over, knocked over or slip out is fine, but standing on a flat roof without fall protection is dicing with death.

Here is an extract from the email I was sent direct for HSE.

In your email you state that this flat roof is a suitable work platform.

I have to advise you that this does not comply with 'The Work at Height

Regulations 2005 (as amended)' and must not be used as a work platform.

If you intend to carry out work at this location again you must review

your risk assessments and procedures to ensure you comply with the above

regulations.

I am sending you a brief guide to the above regulations and an HSE

Information Sheet on 'Safety in Window Cleaning Using Portable Ladders'.

You should use this information to review all of your risk assessments

and procedures to ensure compliance with the law.
 
Rc I previously looked at WFP and this was the main hurdle that put me off it, and all I could come up with was buying a stand pipe off ebay. But technically I would be breaking the law there too by not doing things proper through the water board.

If go semi WFP, I will only use them on awkward jobs, so I wont need to fill them up much... I hope. But for the time being trad poles will do.

 
Rc I previously looked at WFP and this was the main hurdle that put me off it, and all I could come up with was buying a stand pipe off ebay. But technically I would be breaking the law there too by not doing things proper through the water board.

If go semi WFP, I will only use them on awkward jobs, so I wont need to fill them up much... I hope. But for the time being trad poles will do.
How high is the flats you live in?

 
Prob about 40 ft. but I dont fancy running a hose out the window, as I have two cats and would worry they went cam-a-cazy. My wife opened the blinds one morning and 'hide' one of my cats, caught sight of a seagull flying past the window, and ran full force at the window and wacked off it. Knocked itself disy for a bit, so not the smartest cat i've had. But I love him just the same, so wouldn't want to take any chances in case 'curiosity kills the cat'.

 
hi ya, i have read this thread the best i can, and what i can make of it the HSE in with the FMW set out guide lines for residential window cleaners,i have a few propertys were i have to step on to sloping roofs, i explaind to the custys that i would only go on the roofs in dry conditions, in the winter months i will youse a trad extension pole, i have all ready pre warned them that the finish from the pole may not be as good as face on to the windows they are all ok with this, but as far as the HSE looking for offenders on residential cleaning they do not have the resources to be looking up every street and alley way, if there is a fall and they are involved so be it, let me no if i have read in to this wrong

 
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