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Hot Rain

That was my original plan at bottom of garden, half burying some ibc's and building around the top, can't sink totally it turns out my house is built on what used to be a car park and they left it under the garden 2 feet down.

Current plan after reading this months window cleaning magazine was 6 water butts down the side of my mates garage (which has a radiator in which is connected to his house). My guess is the water in the middle ones (using overflow from one to another) would get warm and stagnant at the bottom although moot point anyway as I got one up there at the moment and it isn't collecting enough so back to plan A.

 
That was my original plan at bottom of garden, half burying some ibc's and building around the top, can't sink totally it turns out my house is built on what used to be a car park and they left it under the garden 2 feet down.

Current plan after reading this months window cleaning magazine was 6 water butts down the side of my mates garage (which has a radiator in which is connected to his house). My guess is the water in the middle ones (using overflow from one to another) would get warm and stagnant at the bottom although moot point anyway as I got one up there at the moment and it isn't collecting enough so back to plan A.
at least you would have a solid base to stand them on! lol

 
Very solid mate.

I'll be quiet about this, there also happens to be a water tap half cemented into the wall which I was told when I moved in ten years ago is still connected to the mains supply but not mine lol. If I ever needed to top up in dry season I might be connecting to it cos I'm on a meter. I'm gonna have a look later now I've thought about it, hack the cement out.

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So keep it below 20C and Leg. does not multiply. If air is at 0C and the suggested temp for not cracking glass is 20 degrees above ambient then it looks like 20C is a suggested figure that reduces two problems ?

My IBC is insulated so doesnt get above 15C in the bulk part on a hot summers day.

In which case why do we need hot systems if it cracks glass and gives you Leg. ? -and why dont the suppliers give guidance on Leg. instead of leaving it to us to sort out ?

 
So keep it below 20C and Leg. does not multiply. If air is at 0C and the suggested temp for not cracking glass is 20 degrees above ambient then it looks like 20C is a suggested figure that reduces two problems ?

My IBC is insulated so doesnt get above 15C in the bulk part on a hot summers day.

In which case why do we need hot systems if it cracks glass and gives you Leg. ? -and why dont the suppliers give guidance on Leg. instead of leaving it to us to sort out ?
yer that sounds about right, i have just fitted a l5 in my van, you had one of those didnt you? how did you get on with it?

i know, most hot water systems only produce the hot water as and when its needed so doing it this way you have no worries about using warmer water than 20C as it wont be long enough for it to multiply.

they dont because its you duty to know and look in all the facts to make sure everything is covered, in theroy all suppliers should give details about.

 
I like my golf trolley adaptation, no lugging trols through gravel, I decant into the trolley tank, this gets me about quickly. I do a railway station with a long back facing platform where a van mount cannot go, from an RA I did a year ago I decided not to use gas in the area so the L5 got ditched and I went with the 20C storage of containers at home, worked well.

 
I like my golf trolley adaptation, no lugging trols through gravel, I decant into the trolley tank, this gets me about quickly. I do a railway station with a long back facing platform where a van mount cannot go, from an RA I did a year ago I decided not to use gas in the area so the L5 got ditched and I went with the 20C storage of containers at home, worked well.
if the l5 was fitted correctly and the gas was too, then a RA would be minimal and safer than warming and storing water. plus all the water would cool down quickly and be a waste of time doing all that extra work at home

 
From any RA point working with Leg. is not an option, - I got angry, its a prob that needs a fix and so this morning I started from home happier with a capfull of Disinfectant in the soup of warm water, doesnt affect the tds in small doses, smells ok and is reassuringly expensive (not)

It remains to be seen what my EHO will make of it.

 
WFP systems have been commercially available for many years, but I haven't heared of one reported case originating from window cleaning.

Hot water systems have been around for quite a number of years, and again nothing. I'm not being complacent by surely if we did hear of one case today, does these mean we have a crisis on our hands. No.

It would appear that the best way to heat water in on demand, rather than heating the water in the tank. Jeff will use all his calorifier heated water in a day, so his water will be replaced very regularily. This is no different to your hot water storage tank at home in the airing cupboard for those of us who haven't got combi boilers.

Personally, I think the ladder manufacturers felt they needed to react to a drop in sales as WFP started to become popular, so spread this LEG. story to scare us.

 
WFP systems have been commercially available for many years, but I haven't heared of one reported case originating from window cleaning.

Hot water systems have been around for quite a number of years, and again nothing. I'm not being complacent by surely if we did hear of one case today, does these mean we have a crisis on our hands. No.

It would appear that the best way to heat water in on demand, rather than heating the water in the tank. Jeff will use all his calorifier heated water in a day, so his water will be replaced very regularily. This is no different to your hot water storage tank at home in the airing cupboard for those of us who haven't got combi boilers.

Personally, I think the ladder manufacturers felt they needed to react to a drop in sales as WFP started to become popular, so spread this LEG. story to scare us.
there wouldnt be a crisis but there would be stronger things put in place to make sure that it is kept to a minimum and under control.

the best way is to heat it as you use it as this will bring the risks to a minamal.

there is alot of diffrence to the way jeff does it to a standard storage tank at home:-

1- a home one keep water hotter than the 66c therefore reducing the risks

2- a home one uses tap water that has a minimal ammount in, jeff is using rain water that has a high risk of containing it

3- jeffs cylinder is never emptied out fully, washed out and sterilised each day. left over water and residue is still left on side and in the pipes

4- jeffs water its heated up and kept at the optimal temp for it to breed and multiply therefore making it more high risk!

plus when you have a 2 year old laying in hospital for over a week with the exact symptoms of it then it makes you look at things closer.

when you know what you duties are when using pure water and filters etc then you can comment, but looking at your answer you dont know anything about it and not even looked into it.

 


Legionella Bacteria can be found in low levels in most water sources, the presence of a few bacteria is in

itself unlikely to cause a problem, it is when they begin to multiply that the risk increases. Legionella

requires nutrients to multiply; these can be provided by sediment, scale, sludge and biofilms. These

materials build up in the filters used to purify water, if not replaced at specified intervals filters may

become a fertile breeding ground for legionella bacteria. Water temperature is a particularly importantfactor in the survival and multiplication of legionella, when the temperature of water rises above 20

degrees the bacteria begin to multiply, the optimum temperature being 37 degrees.

Contracting the Disease

The disease is normally contracted after the inhalation of the bacterium in small droplets (aerosols) or in

droplet nuclei that are in the residue after the water has evaporated. Watered poles produce aerosols

and it should be noted that aerosols are not restricted to the point of production. Under suitable wind

conditions, viable bacteria can travel up to 500 metres.

Legionella will not normally multiply in cold water systems or even hot water systems when the water is

heated at point of use, or when the system is in regular use. However, legionella will multiply when the

right conditions exist, these are:

  • When sediment, scale, sludge and biofilms build up in filters.
  • When water temperatures rise above 20 degrees (optimum temperature 37 degrees).


Measures that should be taken to control the risk of legionella are:

  • Replacements of filters at recommended intervals.
  • Following the manufactures servicing recommendations.
  • Keeping the system stored in a cool place when not is regular use
  • If system cannot be stored in a cool place, drain tank and filters whenever the system is to be left idle for more than three days during warm summer months.


The release of legionella is also subject to the Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health (COSHH) Regulations 2002.

 
there wouldnt be a crisis but there would be stronger things put in place to make sure that it is kept to a minimum and under control.

the best way is to heat it as you use it as this will bring the risks to a minamal.

there is alot of diffrence to the way jeff does it to a standard storage tank at home:-

1- a home one keep water hotter than the 66c therefore reducing the risks

2- a home one uses tap water that has a minimal ammount in, jeff is using rain water that has a high risk of containing it

3- jeffs cylinder is never emptied out fully, washed out and sterilised each day. left over water and residue is still left on side and in the pipes

4- jeffs water its heated up and kept at the optimal temp for it to breed and multiply therefore making it more high risk!

plus when you have a 2 year old laying in hospital for over a week with the exact symptoms of it then it makes you look at things closer.

when you know what you duties are when using pure water and filters etc then you can comment, but looking at your answer you dont know anything about it and not even looked into it.
To the contrary, I have looked into it; hence my comment on rather to heat water on demand. These LEG scares seem to crop up every so often.

And I didn't comment to demean your stance on this, especially with the first hand experience you have. I apologise as this appears to have been received in a different spirit to which it was given.

Everything we do does contain an element of risk, but I would say the risk is higher for us to cause some other accident than LEG disease from our systems. When I said that if one incidence of LEG wouldn't be a crisis, I meant that with regard to all of us WFPer's collectively. On the individual case, of course that's a crisis because there is a real possibility of someone dying from the infection.

Personally I wouldn't use the system the way Jeff has - as I mentioned earlier, I wanted to use a calorifier the other way round, so the main water tank was a heat source rather than water to be heated. This way my diesel heater would be part of the water circuit with antifreeze added and the small volume heat exchanger would be classed as a length of delivery tube.

While our hot water tank in the airing cupboard does get heated up above the temperature that stops Leg. developing the problem is more likely to occur in the header tank in the loft. There is a possibility that this water is then used to fill the hot water tank, not heated, and then used in the bathroom or kitchen. But as we have very few cases of this reported, the theory of Leg. bacteria developing doesn't seem to be be as numerous in practise.

I never heard the final outcome of the last outbreak in Scotland, although several different sites were identified. I remember the last report I read mentioned that there is the possibility they may never find the culprit. But the suspected sites all seemed to be commercial/industrial/large installations, nothing at our level.

And yes, I didn't consider that Jeff uses rain water which hasn't been treated with chlorine; although I did know that Jeff does supplement his water with rainwater harvesting.

 
I given RCP's (Hope your daughter is improving) warnings a lot of thought been using below 20 degree and it was either UV light or this product I have ordered, having been using Hydrogen Peroxide for some time.-- For now. http://www.aquacure....?showinfo=pp008
might be over protective but i think better safe than sorry.

shes coming out tonight, but got to have opperation in oxford soon,

 
I'll look into that lads cheers.
google rain harvesting and that comes up with some ways to do it and how to treat the water etc, ok you wont need to do all of it as it is all about that water suppling the house

 
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