Hot Water Playing up

[TimsScrims]

Hi all.

I dont know if anyone can help. My Xline hot water system hasn't worked for ages. I've now taken it upon myself to try and investigate and seek advice.
I've written a thread about my hot water system not working in 2021, which was due to a battery problem (lived in a flat where charging battery was difficult). ive since moved to a detached property where I could charge my hot water battery each night before working day, so this problem is not a battery/power issue.

One very cold morning on one of my first jobs in the winter of 2022/2023 I was happily using the hot water, then suddenly a BANG, and a big puff of smoke escaped from the exhaust of the hot water boiler, subsequently the hot water failed to work from that moment on, I have since given up and just used cold water ever since, and gone through 2023/2024 scraping by.

I bought this hot water system in May 2020, I understand it's advised to have it serviced every year or two which I had meaning to get sorted, but regrettably failed to do as living in the highlands finding a place to do it was a headache. Firstly, WHY would the hot water blow after 2.5 years? and Secondly is it fixable do you think? I know the obvious answer 'go take it to the manufacturer to inspect' but I just wondered if any of you hot water users may have more of an idea? I had always made sure the coolant levels were right, so wasnt a coolant issue.

It's very frustrating after spending thousands of pounds and living up in the highlands where would make use of it the most and I can't use it. It was excellent when it worked, but the headaches when its not working is very costly, stressful and wonder if its worth it? It has been sitting in my vivaro not working for about 18 months.

any help would be appreciated, or troubleshooting things I could do to see if its completely dead or not? FYI it is a 9.9kw Xline 2 man hot water system with frost stat protection.

 

[Pjj]

It’s not what you will want to here but it needs looking at by a Wabasto engineer who knows what they are doing , boat yards , and some commercial vehicle mechanics will be able to fix it , the bang and puff of smoke sounds like a back fire caused by the sooting up of the screen then it has ignited the diesel in the exhaust , it will probably need a new screen and pin and probably a new Chainbure this won’t be cheap guessing around £1000 I have had mine replaced a couple of times next time I will replace the whole unit as this is around £1400 and then everything is new .
After the back fire I expect the unit has gone into lockout look at the red light when you trie to fire it up is it flashing or on all the time ? If it’s flashing count the long and short flashes as this is the fault code , I doubt it will work in this case but try to fire up the boiler then pull out the fuse leave it for a couple of muinits then put it back in and try and fire it up this will sometimes clear the fault codes but don’t think it will in this case but it’s worth a try .

 

[ched999uk]

I believe they use Webasto heaters so have a search for people who service them - might be boat yards or commercial vehicle repairers. Webasto might have a list of approved service engineers near you.
I don't know much about them other than the usual bits that cause issues are the 'pin' and the 'screen'.

@Pjj beat me to it but at least you have had him reply as he has experience of them.

 

[TimsScrims]

It’s not what you will want to here but it needs looking at by a Wabasto engineer who knows what they are doing , boat yards , and some commercial vehicle mechanics will be able to fix it , the bang and puff of smoke sounds like a back fire caused by the sooting up of the screen then it has ignited the diesel in the exhaust , it will probably need a new screen and pin and probably a new Chainbure this won’t be cheap guessing around £1000 I have had mine replaced a couple of times next time I will replace the whole unit as this is around £1400 and then everything is new .
After the back fire I expect the unit has gone into lockout look at the red light when you trie to fire it up is it flashing or on all the time ? If it’s flashing count the long and short flashes as this is the fault code , I doubt it will work in this case but try to fire up the boiler then pull out the fuse leave it for a couple of muinits then put it back in and try and fire it up this will sometimes clear the fault codes but don’t think it will in this case but it’s worth a try .

Appreciate the advice. Now the weather is getting better i plan to sit on my drive and try do some of this troubleshooting. If its costing that much money to maintain though, i do question if its worth the investment unless windys work a minimum of 3/4 days a week.

 

[TimsScrims]

I believe they use Webasto heaters so have a search for people who service them - might be boat yards or commercial vehicle repairers. Webasto might have a list of approved service engineers near you.
I don't know much about them other than the usual bits that cause issues are the 'pin' and the 'screen'.

@Pjj beat me to it but at least you have had him reply as he has experience of them.

Thanks for your input. Will go in back of my van with a few tools scratch my head and make it look like i know what im doing lol

 

[Pjj]

Appreciate the advice. Now the weather is getting better i plan to sit on my drive and try do some of this troubleshooting. If its costing that much money to maintain though, i do question if its worth the investment unless windys work a minimum of 3/4 days a week.

Mine ran for 13500 hours before any maintenance was needed my oldest one is now 10 years old and has had two rebuilds , so I think that’s very cheap considering what the van has ernt over that time , I have a new complete boiler sat on the shelf and will fit that when it next needs repairing as the whole unit is now old and I feel it makes sense to replace, the lot it cost me £1400 for the complete unit

 

[TimsScrims]

Appreciate the advice. Now the weather is getting better i plan to sit on my drive and try do some of this troubleshooting. If its costing that much money to maintain though, i do question if its worth the investment unless windys work a minimum of 3/4 days a week.

Oh by the way, what do you mean by the red light? Theres no lights in my webasto unit, just two knobs on top for temperature and something else that i cant remember? Do you mean take the orange cover off?

To be honest, as i was in the field working when it ‘blew up’ on me, ive disconnected the whome thing and taken its battery out and everything cos i just got so sick of it lol

 

[Pjj]

Thanks for your input. Will go in back of my van with a few tools scratch my head and make it look like i know what im doing lol

They aren’t that difficult to take apart but obviously you can’t do the diagnostics without a lap top and the right software

 

[TimsScrims]

Mine ran for 13500 hours before any maintenance was needed my oldest one is now 10 years old and has had two rebuilds , so I think that’s very cheap considering what the van has ernt over that time , I have a new complete boiler sat on the shelf and will fit that when it next needs repairing as the whole unit is now old and I feel it makes sense to replace, the lot it cost me £1400 for the complete unit

If im perfectly honest. And i can say this cos ive used both hot and cold water for work. I dont think hot water usage is worth the thousands in investment, but this depends how many days you work and the type of work, i wouldnt of said it sped me up much faster versus cold water, its more of a luxury, just going on my experience, may save a little time to some people, but my £100 investment in 2x wide 35cm xtreme brushes has given me way more time/water back than what a £5k hot water system has. Ive worked in south east london with hot water and highlands with cold water, and i earn a lot more money per hour up here than i ever did in london, mainly cos of the type of work, and few other tweaks. And i had more compact work down in the south east with kinder weather conditions!

Also the aggro of having hot water was not worth it, i used more diesel which i didnt like, and its added weight to the vehicle, and another thing to worry about and go wrong / expense. Now im fortunate to have a garage, where the van equipt can be protected in the cold months when its parked in there cos i dont really use more than 400-450L in a full 7-8hr day now.
Rarely you hear someone say theyre upgrading by downsizing van, but having said ALL that, IF i can get my webasto unit working again for minimal work/cost i would use it again with a smile again lol but i wouldnt invest in another.

 

[Pjj]

Oh by the way, what do you mean by the red light? Theres no lights in my webasto unit, just two ***** on top for temperature and something else that i cant remember? Do you mean take the orange cover off?

To be honest, as i was in the field working when it ‘blew up’ on me, ive disconnected the whome thing and taken its battery out and everything cos i just got so sick of it lol

Usually there is a red light that acts as a fault code and tells you when the boiler is running , if you have it in a case it might be inside that ? Maybe yours doesn’t have it ?

 

[Pjj]

If im perfectly honest. And i can say this cos ive used both hot and cold water for work. I dont think hot water usage is worth the thousands in investment, but this depends how many days you work and the type of work, i wouldnt of said it sped me up much faster versus cold water, its more of a luxury, just going on my experience, may save a little time to some people, but my £100 investment in 2x wide 35cm xtreme brushes has given me way more time/water back than what a £5k hot water system has. Ive worked in south east london with hot water and highlands with cold water, and i earn a lot more money per hour up here than i ever did in london, mainly cos of the type of work, and few other tweaks. And i had more compact work down in the south east with kinder weather conditions!

Also the aggro of having hot water was not worth it, i used more diesel which i didnt like, and its added weight to the vehicle, and another thing to worry about and go wrong / expense. Now im fortunate to have a garage, where the van equipt can be protected in the cold months when its parked in there cos i dont really use more than 400-450L in a full 7-8hr day now.
Rarely you hear someone say theyre upgrading by downsizing van, but having said ALL that, IF i can get my webasto unit working again for minimal work/cost i would use it again with a smile again lol but i wouldnt invest in another.

Obviously it’s up to you wether you get it fixed or not , they aren’t cheap to run on diesel but I personally would never go back to cold now , got 3 vans with hot and it’s well worth the extra expense as far as ime concerned but each to their own

 

[TimsScrims]

Obviously it’s up to you wether you get it fixed or not , they aren’t cheap to run on diesel but I personally would never go back to cold now , got 3 vans with hot and it’s well worth the extra expense as far as ime concerned but each to their own

Yeah, gotcha. it's a nice luxury to have. I've called Webasto dealer, one in glasgow where they have engineers that work in highlands fix them all the time, so going to take a shot and hopefully the engineer can fix it without it costing a bomb, I dont think I can swallow spending another £3500+ on a hot water system again.

Yeah my webasto/xline hot water unit doesnt have any fault lights or whatever but then I havent taken the xline plate off...the nice fitters at xline installed the hot water unit in a real awquard place, sandwiched between the tank and the wall of the van so ive not really touched it. I really dont think the unit is broken and is fixable, really hope its not a big fix though will be weird using hot water again after so long!

 

[Part Timer]

Yeah, gotcha. it's a nice luxury to have

Would've thought where you live it would be a necessity on quite a few winter mornings. We have the Webasto 9kw and twice this winter been cleaning windows at -4. Doubt we could've done them without it as some of our pull outs were 100 metres

 

[tench0771]

i couldent work without hot water wether it gas or diesel heater to much fly bee poo on the glass unless i used a heavy radial rocker brush with them pads in middle it realy does depend on your round wether hots worth the expence

 

[TimsScrims]

Would've thought where you live it would be a necessity on quite a few winter mornings. We have the Webasto 9kw and twice this winter been cleaning windows at -4. Doubt we could've done them without it as some of our pull outs were 100 metres

Yeah i kinda dont know how ive managed through 1 and a half winters without it up here haha! Doing a re-vamp of my van setup very soon so finally going to get it sorted. Im also going to have a motorhome type power inlet to keep my two batterys topped up with power. What i remember though when the system did work, frost stat didnt work very well, do you think thats the issue? To have frost stat working like a charm in cold conditions the battery needs connecting to power overnight? I often see camper vans and motorhomes constantly tethered to power when parked up, even at home not going anywhere

 

[Part Timer]

I do a lot of miles so my smart charger keeps my batteries topped up, but never had a flat battery from it working overnight.
I also have it on recirculation when the frost stat comes on which pumps the water through the reels and back into the tank which prevents the reels freezing so don't need an oil filled radiator in the back

 

[spruce]

Yeah i kinda dont know how ive managed through 1 and a half winters without it up here haha! Doing a re-vamp of my van setup very soon so finally going to get it sorted. Im also going to have a motorhome type power inlet to keep my two batterys topped up with power. What i remember though when the system did work, frost stat didnt work very well, do you think thats the issue? To have frost stat working like a charm in cold conditions the battery needs connecting to power overnight? I often see camper vans and motorhomes constantly tethered to power when parked up, even at home not going anywhere

What you need is a leisure battery that can hold its charge. Most camper vans are connected to a smart charger, which is just left on all the time. It's designed to just keep the batteries fully charged by topping up the charge as and when needed.
We have a couple of caravan and motorhome parks near us which also store caravans. If the owners haven't recharged their batteries during winter, chances are the batteries are shot by spring.

Unfortunately, most leisure batteries windies have are in a poor state. As a whole, we don't fully recharge them asap after use. The batteries sulphate up and have much reduced capacity.
A split charge relay may be able to supply enough current to replace the current taken by the pump, but when an additional load is put onto it, fails to produce enough power to start a diesel heater. Windies who rely on a split charge relay to recharge their leisure battery will find that mostly their battery isn't fully recharged. I found that when using the diesel heater, I had to recharge my leisure battery every evening.

I have recently replaced my leisure battery with a lithium Lifepo4. My van's alternator using a Sterling B2B charger will keep this battery fully charged just using both Shurflo pumps. When I use the diesel heater, my battery needs supplementary charging from time to time. This battery accepts a higher charge rate than my leisure battery did using the same b2b charger.

If your diesel heater fails to restart 5 times consecutively, the unit 'bricks' and has to be sorted out with the Webasto software the repair dealers should have. Sometimes we are fortunate in being able to remove the fuse for 30 minutes and start the unit up again.

These Webasto units draw about 20 amps during the start-up cycle. That's the equivalent of 5 full beam headlamp bulbs. The battery has got to have the capacity and the charge to be able to supply that.

 

[steve garwood]

What you need is a leisure battery that can hold its charge. Most camper vans are connected to a smart charger, which is just left on all the time. It's designed to just keep the batteries fully charged by topping up the charge as and when needed.
We have a couple of caravan and motorhome parks near us which also store caravans. If the owners haven't recharged their batteries during winter, chances are the batteries are shot by spring.

Unfortunately, most leisure batteries windies have are in a poor state. As a whole, we don't fully recharge them asap after use. The batteries sulphate up and have much reduced capacity.
A split charge relay may be able to supply enough current to replace the current taken by the pump, but when an additional load is put onto it, fails to produce enough power to start a diesel heater. Windies who rely on a split charge relay to recharge their leisure battery will find that mostly their battery isn't fully recharged. I found that when using the diesel heater, I had to recharge my leisure battery every evening.

I have recently replaced my leisure battery with a lithium Lifepo4. My van's alternator using a Sterling B2B charger will keep this battery fully charged just using both Shurflo pumps. When I use the diesel heater, my battery needs supplementary charging from time to time. This battery accepts a higher charge rate than my leisure battery did using the same b2b charger.

If your diesel heater fails to restart 5 times consecutively, the unit 'bricks' and has to be sorted out with the Webasto software the repair dealers should have. Sometimes we are fortunate in being able to remove the fuse for 30 minutes and start the unit up again.

These Webasto units draw about 20 amps during the start-up cycle. That's the equivalent of 5 full beam headlamp bulbs. The battery has got to have the capacity and the charge to be able to supply that.

That replacement battery you have bought, would you recommend it if you didn’t have a split charge relay and charged your battery with a Numax smart charger every night?
Only asking as I might be needing a new battery soon

 

[dazmond]

Yeah, gotcha. it's a nice luxury to have. I've called Webasto dealer, one in glasgow where they have engineers that work in highlands fix them all the time, so going to take a shot and hopefully the engineer can fix it without it costing a bomb, I dont think I can swallow spending another £3500+ on a hot water system again.

Yeah my webasto/xline hot water unit doesnt have any fault lights or whatever but then I havent taken the xline plate off...the nice fitters at xline installed the hot water unit in a real awquard place, sandwiched between the tank and the wall of the van so ive not really touched it. I really dont think the unit is broken and is fixable, really hope its not a big fix though will be weird using hot water again after so long!

You should have a red light come on when the heater fires up.it has a flash code for low voltage,no start up etc...

I've had mine nearly 7 years now and use it every day.ive had one burner and pin change and a rearrangement of pipework at a boatyard in Northwich after around 3 years....

You need to learn how these things work and operate always charge batteries up every night without fail...

Hope you get it sorted.mines been a lot more reliable than yours.dont let it shut down in between jobs either(plug it back into return valves(

 

[RyeCleanLiam]

I've had mine 3 1/2 years and it's recently broken down. I've taken it to the webasto engineer I use and he put a new burner in which fixed it. It then broke down again so I took it back and he sorted out the fuel line which he thinks had a kink in it and reset it and all was good. Then it broke down again. I looked into downloading the software to reset it myself as I've watched the guy do it and it looks pretty easy. Unfortunately you can't download it unless you are a trained Webasto engineer. So I think you will struggle to fix it yourself. As others have mentioned it will have locked out.

 

[spruce]

That replacement battery you have bought, would you recommend it if you didn’t have a split charge relay and charged your battery with a Numax smart charger every night?
Only asking as I might be needing a new battery soon

I ordered the 105amp from Fogstar. I also purchased a 20amp charger from them at the same time.

I have a Sterling bb1260 b2b charger on the van. I bought it because George Sterling snr said that it would charge my leisure battery up to 5 times faster. It didn't.

The b2b charger has a charge profile setting for lithium batteries. Fogstar advise that while I can recharge a low state of charge 105amp battery at 100amps, they recommend a maximum of 50amps. Fast charging can cause an increase of heat. We don't want that.

This b2b unit has a mode to reduce the charging rate by half. I've done that. When the battery is around 70% state of charge the 30amp setting delivers 25amps. When the charge rate is above 80% the rate of charge drops to around 15 amps and then to around 10 amps at around 95% charged.

I purchased a battery from Fogstar on recommendation of a fellow window cleaner. It has an inbuilt bms with blue tooth and an app for us to monitor what the battery is doing. It also has a built in heating 'blanket'. When the battery's internal temperature is below 5 degrees c in the winter, the bms directs 10amps of charge current to the heating blanket. Once the temperature rises to above 5 degrees, the charge gets redirected to charging the battery.

The batteries are made/assembled in the UK. I prefer to deal with a local company if there are any comebacks.

Another suitable b2b charger is Victron. The one they make is 30 amp, which I have seen is big enough.

Then again, if you have a 230 volt lithium battery charger, you don't really need a b2b charger

Unfortunately, i still have to charge the van starter battery occasionally. We just don't do enough mileage to fully recharge it. One of the local plumbers has the same issue with the same van. I replaced the starter battery last year. It was the original supplied with the van in 2012.

My van has a 160amp alternator. I know because a replaced it about 4 years ago.