Advice on hot water system for one man

[Tendering window cleaners]

I'm thinking about getting a diesel heater, and I wonder if a 5kw output is any good.Do any of you lads have recommendations on a paticular system or any tips on what to consider.

Thanks

 

[Kleenwell]

I’m in the process of setting up a 5kw Webasto system.    My setup as proven to be up to a single man system running at 1-1.4l a min.   Any more and it won’t maintain the temp you set (if above 40 degrees).      If you peer heat the tank to say 15 or 20 degrees, it will keep up better.

i will be pre heating my static tank for this reason.  And to keep it ice free.    200w 12v immersion heater in the side of the static tank, comes on with our storage heaters. 

 

[Tendering window cleaners]

I'm switching over to a pole, hence the query.Is 1-1.4 ltr per minute about average discharge from the brush.

 

[spruce]

I'm thinking about getting a diesel heater, and I wonder if a 5kw output is any good.Do any of you lads have recommendations on a paticular system or any tips on what to consider.

Thanks

I'm sure you've seen the recent post started by @Kleenwell regarding his future project and my input into the test bench I set up.

My conclusion was that it will warm your hoses and make them more flexible and easier to work with in the winter, but if you are looking for scolding hot water then my setup wouldn't deliver that.This was one reason why I never continued with the project. I also prefer a higher flow rate than 1.5lpm of water. I prefer a little over 2lpm so the end result is that the temperature at the brush head was lower due to the higher water flow. When we started wfp 13 years ago we had 1/2" garden hose. In winter it was a nightmare to manage. Then the first minibore hose became available and that was also like trying to uncoil wire when it was cold. My first consideration was that all I wanted was warm water through the hose to make it more flexible and easier to manage.


 


The other was that there are 2 of us and the 5kw Webasto hasn't a hope in keeping up with the needs to 2 cleaners. The heat formula tells us that to heat my water in the van tank from 9 degrees C to 35 degrees C at the brush head in winter would need 2.65kw. (I didn't check to see what heat was coming from the system before the hose reel, but it would have been a bit higher than 35 degrees C.) But as I said earier in that other thread, I didn't account for how much heat is lost through the exhaust. I felt that that furnace wouldn't provide sufficient heat for 2 operators under those conditions, so I lost interest in the project.

We also replaced the minibore hose with hose that didn't become as stiff during winter as the first batch we bought did, so the urgency to

There was a time when cleaners were using cheap gas boilers to heat their water. I 'helped' one of the local lads set his up. It was the 8lpm tankless lpg system. That gas boiler was a 16kw unit, so 3 times the heat output.

 

[Tendering window cleaners]

It's a bit of a conundrum trying to decide which way to go.The cost of these diesel heating systems are such that you would like to get it right on the first attempt.

 

[Diamond geezer]

Iam thinking of a gas set up are you saying their hotter, for sure, than the 5k diesel,and is the one your talking about,more powerful than usual,could you recomend a good one please

 

[Kleenwell]

I'm switching over to a pole, hence the query.Is 1-1.4 ltr per minute about average discharge from the brush.

I run max 2lpm on a rinse.    1lpm when scrubbing frames etc.    I did manage to get 56degrees out the end of 100m of hose fully laid out.   This was at 1lpm. But I don’t want that hot.  You risk braking cold glass like that.   So I have set mine to 35 degrees and I can sustain that for 10 mins constant at 2lpm before the header tank falls below 40 degrees.    Then the hose drops to about 25

I personally fear messing with gas.   

I would want it installed by a pro and then I would want gas hoses and bottles protected with a steel cage 

 

[Pjj]

Grippatank stuff is good I have a two man hot system 9kw it’s very good but not cheap , give Oliver a ring explain what you are trying to do and he will advise you the best way to go 

 

[Tendering window cleaners]

Grippatank stuff is good I have a two man hot system 9kw it’s very good but not cheap , give Oliver a ring explain what you are trying to do and he will advise you the best way to go 

Thanks for that, I will have a look.

I run max 2lpm on a rinse.    1lpm when scrubbing frames etc.    I did manage to get 56degrees out the end of 100m of hose fully laid out.   This was at 1lpm. But I don’t want that hot.  You risk braking cold glass like that.   So I have set mine to 35 degrees and I can sustain that for 10 mins constant at 2lpm before the header tank falls below 40 degrees.    Then the hose drops to about 25

I personally fear messing with gas.   

I would want it installed by a pro and then I would want gas hoses and bottles protected with a steel cage 

Are you able to provide a list of the bits used to produce your heater, I've found a picture of the finished project back in a post and it looks very tidy,

 

[Diamond geezer]

how do u control your flow please

 

[Kleenwell]

Flow is controlled via the pump controller

temp is controlled via a thermostatic mixer valve

i don’t have a list as such

for example, the heat exchanger was a random one I found on eBay that have the correct size threads 

its not totally finished yet.  But I have bench tested it

 

[steve garwood]

I had a quotation from grippa recently for a diesel heater fitted for a single operator (I have a worker, but in a few years I want to be three days a week and alone).

Grippa came back with £3600!!!!

Be sticking with my gas heater 

 

[spruce]

I run max 2lpm on a rinse.    1lpm when scrubbing frames etc.    I did manage to get 56degrees out the end of 100m of hose fully laid out.   This was at 1lpm. But I don’t want that hot.  You risk braking cold glass like that.   So I have set mine to 35 degrees and I can sustain that for 10 mins constant at 2lpm before the header tank falls below 40 degrees.    Then the hose drops to about 25

I personally fear messing with gas.   

I would want it installed by a pro and then I would want gas hoses and bottles protected with a steel cage 

This is an important consideration. The fellow windie I helped set his system up experienced a leaking gas regulator. It developed a leak inside the unit rather than at the actual gas bottle connection or the pipe from the regulator. It filled the back of his van with gas. He replaced the regulator no problem, but he lost trust in the system and removed it shortly afterward.

There is another windie still using his same system 6 years later with no issues.

When I tentatively asked my insurance company how they felt about heating water with gas many years ago they weren't very happy. This was the reason why I didn't carry on with this project.

I think you need to be very careful when using gas. I would go down the route of an underslung vapour tank (I can do it as I have the same van used for motorhomes) that can be filled at a local forecourt selling lpg. These tanks can also be fitted inside the van but if the regulator should leak, the gas is vented to the outside. (These tanks have a life span of 10 years and have to be replaced when they reach that.) If you are using a gas bottle inside, then the correct procedure in a motorhome is for the gas bottle to be kept in a sealed locker with a vent hole in the floor. To keep cover yourself all gas installations should be inspected once a year by a qualified gas engineer and a certificate issued. (For some strange reason roofers don't have any insurance issues carrying a loose gas bottle in their vans. I guess they only use them out in the open with felting roofs.)

One lad on the other forum experienced a gas fire at his heater, but thats the only one I've heard of.  In winter these gas heaters need to be bled down every night. If they freeze up then thats then end of them.

Iam thinking of a gas set up are you saying their hotter, for sure, than the 5k diesel,and is the one your talking about,more powerful than usual,could you recomend a good one please

I'm not recommending any one but IMHO you need one that can be properly vented through you van's roof like they do catering vans. Roof vent kits are available.

A popular ebay choice is this one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-Gas-8L-Tankless-Instant-2gpm-Hot-Water-Heater-Stainless-Boiler-2GPM-CE/311422270180?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D2fe9e39c5dc34825bc3a304b9ee8fbb2%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D311422270180&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

They also have a summer and winter setting; The summer setting is fine for winter and as only half the burner is used, reduces gas consumption. I've never seen them this cheap. Usually around £120-00.

Other have used this type.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6L-LPG-Propane-Gas-Tankless-Hot-Water-Heater-Boiler-Protable-Home-Oudoor-Camper/301947006946?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190705%26meid%3D637ff4303ffc4169a1ae8cfab877f9b5%26pid%3D100506%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D301947006946&_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226

They mount them on their back doors or close to the back or side sliding door. When in operation they leave the doors open for ventilation. @Green Pro Clean Ltd has done this but this isn't something I would do tbh. He has a video on YouTube fitting this.

 

[steve garwood]

This is an important consideration. The fellow windie I helped set his system up experienced a leaking gas regulator. It developed a leak inside the unit rather than at the actual gas bottle connection or the pipe from the regulator. It filled the back of his van with gas. He replaced the regulator no problem, but he lost trust in the system and removed it shortly afterward.

There is another windie still using his same system 6 years later with no issues.

When I tentatively asked my insurance company how they felt about heating water with gas many years ago they weren't very happy. This was the reason why I didn't carry on with this project.

I think you need to be very careful when using gas. I would go down the route of an underslung vapour tank (I can do it as I have the same van used for motorhomes) that can be filled at a local forecourt selling lpg. These tanks can also be fitted inside the van but if the regulator should leak, the gas is vented to the outside. (These tanks have a life span of 10 years and have to be replaced when they reach that.) If you are using a gas bottle inside, then the correct procedure in a motorhome is for the gas bottle to be kept in a sealed locker with a vent hole in the floor. To keep cover yourself all gas installations should be inspected once a year by a qualified gas engineer and a certificate issued. (For some strange reason roofers don't have any insurance issues carrying a loose gas bottle in their vans. I guess they only use them out in the open with felting roofs.)

One lad on the other forum experienced a gas fire at his heater, but thats the only one I've heard of.  In winter these gas heaters need to be bled down every night. If they freeze up then thats then end of them.

I'm not recommending any one but IMHO you need one that can be properly vented through you van's roof like they do catering vans. Roof vent kits are available.

A popular ebay choice is this one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LPG-Gas-8L-Tankless-Instant-2gpm-Hot-Water-Heater-Stainless-Boiler-2GPM-CE/311422270180?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190540%26meid%3D2fe9e39c5dc34825bc3a304b9ee8fbb2%26pid%3D100505%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D311422270180&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

They also have a summer and winter setting; The summer setting is fine for winter and as only half the burner is used, reduces gas consumption. I've never seen them this cheap. Usually around £120-00.

Other have used this type.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6L-LPG-Propane-Gas-Tankless-Hot-Water-Heater-Boiler-Protable-Home-Oudoor-Camper/301947006946?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005190705%26meid%3D637ff4303ffc4169a1ae8cfab877f9b5%26pid%3D100506%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D301947006946&_trksid=p2045573.c100506.m3226

They mount them on their back doors or close to the back or side sliding door. When in operation they leave the doors open for ventilation. @Green Pro Clean Ltd has done this but this isn't something I would do tbh. He has a video on YouTube fitting this.

Mines from Peter fogwell. It’s a fogwash gas heater and is coming up to 8 years old ?

 

[spruce]

Mines from Peter fogwell. It’s a fogwash gas heater and is coming up to 8 years old ?

Those were better for heating wfp water as they were 6lpm rather than the 8lpm I linked to.

Never did find out what the real reason was as to why Peter stopped selling them.

 

[Diamond geezer]

thanks very much,for all this info