Air in the system

[Russcooper]

Every time I have to recalibrate when I go to customers after traveling it’s driving me mad. The pipe from the tank to the pump is running along the floor the pump is sat an inch off the floor But the hose from the pump to the hose reel keeps getting air in it So I have to run the pump at 99 to get rid then recalibrate it
Any ideas why It’s drying me mad I have moved the hose reel and sat it on top of the tank Buts it’s been fine up to the last few days
Is the air coming in from tank to pump or pump to hose reel
Any help please

 

[ched999uk]

Look at tank to pump connections first as pump could suck air in due to a poor connection. If it's after the pump then a poor connection is likely to leak water out when under pressure.

 

[Iron Giant]

turn your controller off and close the inline tap off at the tank outlet if you have one, after doing the above

 

[spruce]

As @ched999uk says, air is being sucked in between the tank and the pump at one or more connections. Warm the hose up at the connections with a hair dryer and tighten the clamps up a bit.

The hose will be less supple in the cold, hence the need to warm it up.

Also check that the gasket or seal on the filter bowl is good. Maybe the bowl needs to be nipped up a bit with your fingers.

 

[Russcooper]

Thanks guys sorted. You was right

 

[Russcooper]

So I have now changed things Changed the connection from the tank to one that the hose pushes on and tightened with a jubilee clip I have put 2 non return valves each side of the pump to stop any water or air getting in the pump And still I get air everything is tight or as tight as possible without snapping or breaking fittings

 

[ched999uk]

Maybe you could post a picture showing the tank outlet and pipework to the pump, we may be able to sport something.

 

[Iron Giant]

Seems

So I have now changed things Changed the connection from the tank to one that the hose pushes on and tightened with a jubilee clip I have put 2 non return valves each side of the pump to stop any water or air getting in the pump And still I get air everything is tight or as tight as possible without snapping or breaking fittings

Seems like far too many connections to me, also if you have used new style jubilee clips they are rubbish you can tighten them to the max and they'll still be useless,

I had one on a hose connection and within days it was dripping after been under pressure I've now switched to O clips

 

[ks789]

I had this problem for ages, in the end all that worked for me was removing the pressure switch from the pump, (if I remember rightly, was quite a few years back) Since that, the only time I have a small issue is after draining the system prior to a sharp frost. But it goes fine after running it a short while so all good.

 

[spruce]

As @ched999uk says, air is being sucked in between the tank and the pump at one or more connections. Warm the hose up at the connections with a hair dryer and tighten the clamps up a bit.

The hose will be less supple in the cold, hence the need to warm it up.

Also check that the gasket or seal on the filter bowl is good. Maybe the bowl needs to be nipped up a bit with your fingers.

We have also found the Gardiner single ear Oetiker range of o clips work best as they clamp the complete hose.

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/oetiker-stepless-o-clip-hose-clamp-12-3-14-8mm-minibore.html

They need to be fitted with the tool Gardiner sells.

As I mentioned before, we just heat the hose in hot water before fitting it into the hose barb.
You might also check that the reducers you have at the tank outlet area selling properly. On the threads we usual wrap a couple of turns on PTFE tape.

Shurflo filters have cone shaped fittings. We have found that we can't tighten the Shurflo pump fittings enough by hand for them to seal, so we knip then up with a spanner ever so carefully. You mustn't use PTFE tape on these fittings.

 

[Iron Giant]

We have also found the Gardiner single ear Oetiker range of o clips work best as they clamp the complete hose.

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/oetiker-stepless-o-clip-hose-clamp-12-3-14-8mm-minibore.html

They need to be fitted with the tool Gardiner sells.

As I mentioned before, we just heat the hose in hot water before fitting it into the hose barb.
You might also check that the reducers you have at the tank outlet area selling properly. On the threads we usual wrap a couple of turns on PTFE tape.

Shurflo filters have cone shaped fittings. We have found that we can't tighten the Shurflo pump fittings enough by hand for them to seal, so we knip then up with a spanner ever so carefully. You mustn't use PTFE tape on these fittings.

I use the O-clips you linked I have a good pair of snips similar to these Magnusson Offset Right Tin Snips 10" (250mm) - Screwfix which I bought from Aldi years ago I had no use for them or any idea why I was buying them until I needed them one day ? I can easily cut through the part of the O-clip that gets crimped as the metal on these clips is softer than others sold

 

[spruce]

So I have now changed things Changed the connection from the tank to one that the hose pushes on and tightened with a jubilee clip I have put 2 non return valves each side of the pump to stop any water or air getting in the pump And still I get air everything is tight or as tight as possible without snapping or breaking fittings

I never had an issue with air in this setup back in 2009. I have a similar setup in my current van, where the pumps are situated a little lower as I have a battery to battery charger above the pumps.

When I fitted a 500 litre system in my son's Berlingo van, the Shurflo pump is situated above the top of his tank. He doesn't have a problem of air ingress into his pump either.

Air ingress can be an issue with a flat tank; the reason why we only fitted upright tanks in our vans.

On this instal, I was using double eared O clips.

 

[ched999uk]

I can't see the non return valves. l think that if you lowered the pumps you would have less problems.

From the current tank level you can see the pumps way above that level, so as soon as they stop the water will try and return to the tank level. In an ideal world I would have the pumps below the bottom of the tank so they always has positive water pressure - ok so that's not really practical. Next best place is as low as possible.
While having the pumps raised shouldn't cause an issue as the clamps should create a water tight seal maybe they are not creating an air tight seal when under a vacuum. While I realise you have other instals with higher pumps it's guess work to find the issue.

The white elbow barb to thread connections, I assume they have a taper inside to mate with the surflo taper on the filters and pump outlets? I don't think I have seen surflo ones in white?

It's up to you but that tank frame looks very flimsy although much better than strapping it down. If you are having employees driving round in that I would consider getting an engineers report on it to make sure it's up to the job to cover yourself.

 

[ks789]

I had this problem for ages, in the end all that worked for me was removing the pressure switch from the pump, (if I remember rightly, was quite a few years back) Since that, the only time I have a small issue is after draining the system prior to a sharp frost. But it goes fine after running it a short while so all good.

Ah sorry, found the old post on utube, it was back in 2019, Dont actually remove the pressure switch, just bypassed it. I think this is only any good if you use a controller? I expect most of us do now.

 

[spruce]

I can't see the non return valves. l think that if you lowered the pumps you would have less problems.

From the current tank level you can see the pumps way above that level, so as soon as they stop the water will try and return to the tank level. In an ideal world I would have the pumps below the bottom of the tank so they always has positive water pressure - ok so that's not really practical. Next best place is as low as possible.
While having the pumps raised shouldn't cause an issue as the clamps should create a water tight seal maybe they are not creating an air tight seal when under a vacuum. While I realise you have other instals with higher pumps it's guess work to find the issue.

The white elbow barb to thread connections, I assume they have a taper inside to mate with the surflo taper on the filters and pump outlets? I don't think I have seen surflo ones in white?

It's up to you but that tank frame looks very flimsy although much better than strapping it down. If you are having employees driving round in that I would consider getting an engineers report on it to make sure it's up to the job to cover yourself.

That was a photo of my van back in 2008 @ched999uk . The tank frame and spreaders are totally different now.

 

[Cleanco]

When I first started I never had a breather hole or air inlet in my tank lid and found that the water being removed from my tank wasn’t being being replaced by air causing a vacuum which led to air being sucked into the system at the weakest point which led to airlocks. This may not be your problem but always something to consider. You can get tank lids with none return valves fitted to let the air in or if the one you have hasn’t you can drill a small hole which will let air into the tank although with this method you may need stick a cloth over it to catch any spillage when the tank is full in transit.

 

[ched999uk]

That was a photo of my van back in 2008 @ched999uk . The tank frame and spreaders are totally different now.

Oops, I thought it was the OP. ?