Booster Pump / How to run 12V on 230V

Discussion in 'Water Fed Pole Cleaning' started by heyoh, Jan 11, 2014.

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  1. heyoh

    heyoh Active Member
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    Hey guys,

    Anyone has any idea how I could use my auto shut-off valve from mains? It's been connected onto a 12V battery, but I'd like to use it on a static system now. Do I just get a 12V adapter like this:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/3906...ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=95&ff19=0
    just cut the wire and then, well what do I do then?
    I would also like to use my shurflo pump as a booster pump but that's 12V too. (Can you run a shurflo pump for hours by the way?)
     
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  2. heyoh

    heyoh Active Member
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    Anyone?
     
  3. Tuffers

    Tuffers Hero
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    Spruce will be your man for this.
     
  4. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    #4 spruce, Jan 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
    I obviously don't know how much current your solenoid valve draws, but I see one on ebay draws 1.2amps. This power supply delivers 2 amps so if yours draws less than 2 amps, then it should work.

    There must be a info plate on the valve which will tell you this.

    What you need to do is cut the plug off and strip the wires back a bit. I'm not sure if 12v solenoid valves have a positive and negative feed or if than can be connected up either way. If you have a volt meter I would test which is the positive wire on the power supply and then connect it up as you would have done with using it with a battery. So your power supply replaces the battery.

    Do connect this up using an RCD adaptor.

    Your shurflo pump will draw up to 8 amps so your power supply isn't suitable. A Shurflo pump also isn't designed to run for hours. It has no internal cooling fan.
     
  5. heyoh

    heyoh Active Member
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    Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. So the solenoid valve is the easier bit.

    About the pump, I know it's not a dedicated booster pump, but I have nothing better at the moment, and I read in some older threads that some used it and it worked for them. I just don't have the cash for a proper one, the ones I saw on ebay go around 150 quid. I have this spare one, I thought I could use it, maybe in this cold weather it could run for 3-4 hours?
    Is this any good?
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBO-1-BOO...den_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item2a3392c9bc
     
  6. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    I'm afraid I've little experience with booster pumps TBH. We initially started with a RoMan type r/o which was a 3 membrane 225 GPD unit. We were processing water directly into the tank on the trailer we had. Our water pressure was around 50 psi in those days. Those membranes failed within a year and I replaced them with 3 x 150 GPD membranes. With that water pressure and processing water into a 1000 liter IBC tank we had enough water to keep 2 of us supplied with water when son joined the business with his own van. We started with 2 full van tanks at the beginning of the week and a full IBC tank by Monday evening.

    In those days our water was around 255 ppm and the r/o reduced that water to around 4 ppm before di.

    With that experience I would never bother with a booster pump. Yes, water processing is slower, but once you fill that IBC tank and you have it on a controlled filling cycle, you should always have enough water even with the r/o processing slower in winter.

    Unfortunately the 450GPD r/o couldn't keep up with 3 of us, so we replaced it with a 4040. Using an HF5 membrane we now have plenty of water even with a lower water pressure of 40psi. Yes, some process water twice as fast using a booster pump, but we are managing fine without one.

    You will find that having an IBC static system is so much better than the way you were doing it before. Try running your system without a booster to start with and see how you go. Maybe you don't need to bother with one.
     
  7. heyoh

    heyoh Active Member
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    The main reason why i was thinking about a booster pump was to reduce the waste output, basically using less water, as i'm on a meter. The other thing is my tds from tap is around 320, after ro its .45 with brand new membranes and prefilter. Something is definitely wrong with the housing it's and old merlin ~4 years old i think. But i don't have cash for a new ro, so im stuck with .45 which makes my resin last just a couple of weeks. I guess im just trying to make the best out of the situation with this booster bussiness.
    I am planning on buying an IBC, at the moment im using water butts, so i can only fill 300L a time which is a pain, but hey spring is around the corner, isn't it :) no it's not... just trying to stay positive
     
  8. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    A Merlin was designed as an under kitchen sink water purifier. As such it was classed as an on demand r/o. When you switched on the kitchen tap it started to operate and when you switched off the tap, it switched off.

    My friend has his Merlin connected to his IBC tank with a stop c ock. When the IBC tank is full the valve closes and his Merlin switches off. He doesn't need a solenoid valve. It operates on exactly the same principle as the toilet cistern does.

    I'm sorry, but Merlins are rubbish with regard to waste water and efficiency.

    I know of 2 cleaners (1 of them is my friend above) who have/had them. The first is on his second as frost killed his first one. His efficiency is around 90% which is the same as his first r/o.
    So his r/o at 90% efficiency brings his tap water down from 115 to 12. He relies on resin to reduce it to zero. He is on his second bag of resin whilst I haven't replaced my resin in my 11 litre Di vessel yet.

    He has a waste to pure ratio of 5 to 1. He isn't on a water meter.

    The other cleaner I know sold his Merlin as he bought a house with a water meter already fitted. He now has a 4040 with a similar waste to pure ratio as I'm using - 55% waste to 45% pure.
    Buying a booster pump won't reduce your water costs IMO as your r/o will be throwing 5000 litres down the drain to give you 1000 litres of pure - it may only just do it quicker.

    Sorry to say this, but you can't afford not to replace your r/o with something more efficient. Even if you set up a 4040 with a 3 to 1 ratio waste to pure, you are saving 2000 litres for every 1000 litres of pure. Now find out what each cm of water costs.

    I'm sure someone we be able to work out a cost of water per 1000 of pure for you on a meter with 5000 liters of waste. As I'm not on as meter, I can't help you with this.
     
  9. heyoh

    heyoh Active Member
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    Thanks for the advice Spruce, since the last posts I bought an IBC tank as you said, it is a lot easier actually, I just leave the filling running, i have enough water everyday.
    My problem is still the same, that is a huge water bill is coming, it is on its way i can feel it. I can fill about 200-300 in ~8hrs.
    I've been looking at booster pumps, could anyone confirm that i would be saving water by using one of them?
    In theory it would make my old ro unit more efficient, but until I know for sure it definitely would, i don't want to spend a 100 quid.

    Am I right that all reverse osmosis system require around 60-80psi for best performance? So if I upgraded to a 4040 system, my 30 psi still wouldn't make a big difference, would it?
     
  10. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    What I would be inclined to do is to test it. You will have to manually control and time it. I would first of all take measurements of the amount of water I was using and compare it with the amount of water I was purifying.

    Take 2 similar size empty wheelie bins, one to take your waste water and the other your pure water. Run the r/o and time how long it takes to fill the 1st wheelie bin with waste water. (You may decide to half fill it if it takes too long.). You should also be able to estimate what your pure to waste water ratio is as well. Mark (scratch) the relevant levelson the inside of the wheelie bin. Connect your Shurflo pump up with your controller and/or pressure switch and repeat the experiment. When the waste water reaches the mark switch every thing off.

    You should then see how much quicker the water was produced from the timed results and you will see if a higher pressure will give you more pure.

    I have never done this before, but my gut feeling is that the pure to waste ratio will be very much the same, the only difference being that the r/o processed the water quicker.

    I personally would be interested in how this experiment turned out.
     
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