Brodex Portapower

[Daniel Mc]

Hi all,

Been trad for 17 years, decided to take the plunge and go wfp. I purchased a used Brodex Portapower to produce my pure water as I'm not on a water meter and it gives me the flexibility to take to site for big jobs where I can plug it in and work all day. Problem is I can't get the thing to produce pure water! It came with a brand new Axeon HF5-4040 membrane, which I installed. I had 000 on my tds for all of 100 litres and then the numbers started shooting up! The water coming out of my membrane is 270ppm down from 370ppm from the tap, but nowhere near what it should be. Brodex unfortunately I have found to be the worst company for customer service that I have ever come across. Axeon say that they have never had a membrane failure. There is a 150psi rated pump Shurflo SUK-0402 attached to boost my low home water pressure but not sure how to tell if it's actually working. Anyone any ideas? Does someone have a portapower that could have a look at mine? Thanks in advance-happy window cleaning, be safe.

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[Smurf]

Hi & welcome @Daniel Mc

Did you backflush the new ro with the di tank disconected?

A new membrane needs flushing properly to get rid of residue manufacturing chems on it.

All what has happened I'm thinking is where you have run the ro without backflushing it for at least an hour so the tds drops down low and not disconnected the di tank it's probably killed off the resin hence why the tds output is increasing.

 

[Smurf]

I take it when you said it was a new membrane was actualy still in its plastic wrapper and boxed?

Also why did you need to change the ro membrane?

 

[Smurf]

Here is the spec sheet for that 240 volt booster pump http://www.keller-pumpen.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Download/Membranpumpen_Datenblatt_SUK-0402_SHURflo_KELLER-Pumpen.pdf

You will know if it's running when plugged in as will not be silent and when you put you hand on the pump will feel it running too

 

[Smurf]

Are you also awhere of TDS creep ?

Here is a vid though it's not a 4040 system tds creep is the same no matter what ro you use

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[spruce]

What's the pure to waste water ratio?

I also don't know what the maximum pressure you can use for those membranes is either. Most booster pumps push it up to between 80 and 100psi.

Edited:

Thanks for specs @Smurf . It will take 400 psi so that's ok.

 

[spruce]

Here is the spec sheet for that 240 volt booster pump http://www.keller-pumpen.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Download/Membranpumpen_Datenblatt_SUK-0402_SHURflo_KELLER-Pumpen.pdf
You will know if it's running when plugged in as will not be silent and when you put you hand on the pump will feel it running too

I saw that. The first thing I noticed was that it doesn't appear to have a good output volume of water in liters. The graph shows 5. At a lower water pressure of 50 psi with an HF5 membrane, my r/o produces 2 litres of pure to 2 litres of waste. My r/o has the potential of producing water much faster than that with a higher input water pressure.

This whole trolley idea doesn't make sense to me. Its supposed to be portable, but where are you going to find 230v power, a water source and a drain together?

 

[Smurf]

Here is a page about that membrane with a tab that shows the spec

http://www.axeonwater.com/AXEON-HF5-Series-Ultra-Low-Energy.html

 

[spruce]

I take it when you said it was a new membrane was actualy still in its plastic wrapper and boxed?
Also why did you need to change the ro membrane?

He bought it used.

 

[Smurf]

Yes I know spruce but said it came with a brand new membrane which he installed. /emoticons/wink.png

Hi all,
Been trad for 17 years, decided to take the plunge and go wfp. I purchased a used Brodex Portapower to produce my pure water as I'm not on a water meter and it gives me the flexibility to take to site for big jobs where I can plug it in and work all day. Problem is I can't get the thing to produce pure water! It came with a brand new Axeon HF5-4040 membrane, which I installed. I had 000 on my tds for all of 100 litres and then the numbers started shooting up! The water coming out of my membrane is 270ppm down from 370ppm from the tap, but nowhere near what it should be. Brodex unfortunately I have found to be the worst company for customer service that I have ever come across. Axeon say that they have never had a membrane failure. There is a 150psi rated pump Shurflo SUK-0402 attached to boost my low home water pressure but not sure how to tell if it's actually working. Anyone any ideas? Does someone have a portapower that could have a look at mine? Thanks in advance-happy window cleaning, be safe.

 

[spruce]

The reason for asking what the ratio of pure to waste is that it sounds as though he has closed the waste gate altogether.

 

[spruce]

Yes I know spruce but said it came with a brand new membrane which he installed. /emoticons/wink.png

Ok. I see what your saying now.

 

[Smurf]

It's just a question of figuring out what the issues are

what is the tap flow rate/psi

was the membrane fitted correctly

was the membrane backflushed properly

was the di disconected when backflushing

does the booster pump work

is the waste to pure ratio set to optimum afterwards

 

[Daniel Mc]

Hi, thanks for the responses-long days work! I installed a brand new membrane because the seller provided it with the trolley as he said that it was due to be replaced. I started with the waste open at 2litre per min as that is the figure suggested by Brodex, then adjusted it to between 2 and 3 as that seemed to balance it out as Axeon reckon max 33% difference between pure/waste. I don't mind if it's a bit slower as not on water meter. You are right re the back flush, I mistakenly did not disconnect the DI so knackered the resin. Since then I have been testing the water before the DI, at the exit from the RO as it should read 20 or less but it's 270 so something is not right with the membrane or pump. The pump does indeed make a noise when you turn it on but I assumed that the pump should make a difference to the pressure of the water coming out the end of the hose. I connected my wf pole stood the pole up vertically and ran it with the pump off and then on, the water travelled no further from the end of the pole. The reason for the trolley was a few school jobs lined up and a solar panel farm where I can indeed plug in the system, just gives options that a fixed system couldn't until I get a van system one day! On the plus side(ish) I have made myself a nuisance with Brodex and they have finally agreed to have a look at my machine on Friday, though it involves a 5hr round trip on my part! Any other suggestions much appreciated.

 

[spruce]

No further ideas.

The only other thing to question is the replacement membrane. Was it in sealed packaging. This is important because the membrane becomes useless once it has dried out.

I've included some instructions for fitting the membrane that applies to champ housings which are basically the same that Brodex use.

rokit.pdf

 

[doug atkinson]

It sounds as if your membrane is not seated properly therefore you will have waste mixing with pure or you may have inserted it the wrong way round.

As Spruce says it should have been in a sealed packet, if not then the chap may have given you a used membrane.

Where are you based as there are other suppliers that may be nearer to you that would help.

 

[Daniel Mc]

Hi guys. Yes it was in box and sealed in film. Membrane is a nice snug fit and is installed the right way round with the brine seal at the input end. Will post an update after my trip tomorrow. Do think it could be the pump, motor working fine but the diaphragm is replaceable, maybe there is a prob there. Anyway, will let you know. Enjoy a prosperous days work tomorrow.

 

[doug atkinson]

On the Brodex systems they use a pre drilled "o" ring for back pressure. These tend to rust and break so you will find it's a 10 pence job!!!

 

[Daniel Mc]

Update from Brodex visit today (the M6 is a pain!!!) and very helpful phone call from Vileder systems. Brodex do not provide a carbon prefilter as they say that the membrane can cope with the low levels of chlorine. Problem is its low in Liverpool but not in Oxfordshire! Anyway I need a new membrane, they gave the system a good going over and with some mods that a Brodex engineer showed me hopefully once the new membrane is sorted we will be ready to go. Thanks for your help all!

 

[spruce]

Update from Brodex visit today (the M6 is a pain!!!) and very helpful phone call from Vileder systems. Brodex do not provide a carbon prefilter as they say that the membrane can cope with the low levels of chlorine. Problem is its low in Liverpool but not in Oxfordshire! Anyway I need a new membrane, they gave the system a good going over and with some mods that a Brodex engineer showed me hopefully once the new membrane is sorted we will be ready to go. Thanks for your help all!

Wow! Every other membrane supplier has an opposite opinion to this Before I start using it I would definitely add a Fiberdyne carbon block prefilter. If your water is laden with sediment like ours is then you may have to include a sediment filter as well.

http://www.axeonwater.com/pdf/AXEON_MKTF-135_HF5-Mbr_PB_LR.pdf

It says that this membrane has zero tolerance for chlorine. I don't know if this is the membrane that Brodex supply or not, but I'm sure that most forum members will agree that chlorine isn't good for membranes.

Brodex sell their systems through out the country so must surely take this into consideration when kitting out equipment. I thought they fitted both sediment and carbon block prefilters to their van systems, don't they?

 

[doug atkinson]

Spruce , Brodex only fit a sediment filter to their systems, no carbon filter. Also have seen a lot of systems where the "o" ring in the di head where the riser tube sits is taken out. I have my thoughts on this but not for public forums.

I think this membrane is still okay as takes time for membrane to foul with chlorine, not so quick.