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Can I sell with a disclaimer?

Jonny 67

Active member
Messages
352
Location
North west
I'm going to be selling my van soon. It has a diy system, which isn't caged in. Ideally it needs a 650 litre safety cage. Would you guys dismantle the system before you sold, or could I get a disclaimer signed by any potential buyer? I'm pretty sure one of you guys will have come across this. Alternatively I could have it fitted with a safety cage and then sell, but that's time and money! It's a Peugeot expert 142000 miles on clock, never missed a service or interim service, so there should be plenty of miles left in it. Mostly motorway miles! TIA

 

ched999uk

Well-known member
Messages
2,966
Location
Lancashire
First off I am no lawyer! I think you have 2 options.

1. remove the system and sell the empty van and system separate. You may not get as much but you will probably sell van quicker.

2. Advertise it on ebay as ready to go window cleaning business (you might need to buy some kit) List it as a strapped in tank, with a caveat on that for safety it should be in a bolted in frame and sold as seen. Print out the ebay ad as that is the basis for the buyer purchasing the van! I would say that covers you as you have stated that for safety the tank should be bolted in. If the buyer choses not to that's their look out.

Silly question but why are you more worried about a new owner than you were about your own life?

 

Jonny 67

Active member
Messages
352
Location
North west
I'm not worried about the new owner, I just don't want to be held accountable! As for my own safety? That's part of the reason for change. You guys pointed out the safety issues to me in a previous post. The new van will have a safety cage fitted and is all booked in! ?

 

Skxawng

Premium Member
Messages
1,164
Location
Rotherham, South Yorkshire
You don't need it bolting down if it's empty.. You could just say, it comes with the equipment in the back but if they want to fill the tank with water and use it, then they need to have it professionally secured. 

 

Master Jedi Alejandro

Premium Member
Messages
1,399
Location
Scotland
I sold my van and the guy wanted the tank as it was upright & his was a flat tank. I unbolted it and took the tank out, then swapped tanks with him and put the tank back in, but didn’t strap it in. So basically I sold him the van and swapped tanks as a separate transaction. Was up to him how he secured it after that. 

 

Apw1210

Well-known member
Messages
3,802
Location
Devon
I'm going to be selling my van soon. It has a diy system, which isn't caged in. Ideally it needs a 650 litre safety cage. Would you guys dismantle the system before you sold, or could I get a disclaimer signed by any potential buyer? I'm pretty sure one of you guys will have come across this. Alternatively I could have it fitted with a safety cage and then sell, but that's time and money! It's a Peugeot expert 142000 miles on clock, never missed a service or interim service, so there should be plenty of miles left in it. Mostly motorway miles! TIA
Me personally, Strip everything out and just sell the van or sell it with all the parts removed but in the back of the van and the tank as is.

Don't sell it with any water in it or give them any fixings you have used or ratchet straps.

we live in a society of blame and finger pointing

 

Mx19

Well-known member
Messages
530
Location
Farnham
I think you’re over thinking it.
You can get insurance to cover a tank that’s strapped in so if they have the right insurance there’s no issue, from a legal point of view, with however they choose to install it. 

if you sell a car to someone without insurance and they crash it you’re not liable

 

spruce

The Sprucefather
Messages
7,933
Location
Teesside
I think you’re over thinking it.
You can get insurance to cover a tank that’s strapped in so if they have the right insurance there’s no issue, from a legal point of view, with however they choose to install it. 

if you sell a car to someone without insurance and they crash it you’re not liable
... but if you sell it as a window cleaning van you are now selling a vehicle for a specific purpose to fulfil a specific task. We all know that a van's loading hooks are limited in their holding capacity so if an injury occurs due to the tank breaking free, you have sold a van not fit for the purpose you have put it to.

Unfortunately I wouldn't like this to be sorted out in a court of law. So I would sell the van on its own and the window cleaning equipment as a separate identity. It could be sold to the same individual and put into the back of the van as a transported load. It's then up to the buyer to fit the system and take responsibility for ensuring it's done correctly.

In a case like this I would also draw up a disclaimer that the buyer needs to ensure that the system is fitted safely and that I, the seller, can't be held responsible if it isn't.

What makes sense to us may not make sense to us after it's been through a law court. There was a case recently when McDonalds got sued when a customer burnt herself with the hot coffee she ordered and won her case?

https://www.rd.com/article/hot-coffee-lawsuit/

Look at how the public reacted to the verdict.

BTW this is just my opinion. It doesn't mean that the points you make aren't valid.

 
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Mx19

Well-known member
Messages
530
Location
Farnham
... but if you sell it as a window cleaning van you are now selling a vehicle for a specific purpose to fulfil a specific task. We all know that a van's loading hooks are limited in their holding capacity so if an injury occurs due to the tank breaking free, you have sold a van not fit for the purpose you have put it to.

Unfortunately I wouldn't like this to be sorted out in a court of law. So I would sell the van on its own and the window cleaning equipment as a separate identity. It could be sold to the same individual and put into the back of the van as a transported load. It's then up to the buyer to fit the system and take responsibility for ensuring it's done correctly.

In a case like this I would also draw up a disclaimer that the buyer needs to ensure that the system is fitted safely and that I, the seller, can't be held responsible if it isn't.

What makes sense to us may not make sense to us after it's been through a law court. There was a case recently when McDonalds got sued when a customer burnt herself with the hot coffee she ordered and won her case?

https://www.rd.com/article/hot-coffee-lawsuit/

Look at how the public reacted to the verdict.

BTW this is just my opinion. It doesn't mean that the points you make aren't valid.
I do see what you’re saying, And agree it’s not the safest, but my point was the fact that insurance companies deem it safe enough that they will insure it, so as long as the buyer has the right insurance there would be zero chance of comeback on the seller.
 

I know I’m also not a lawyer but after working for 2 years in my younger days for a law firm that dealt specifically with personal injury claims this would be my take on it. 
 

To the OP of course cover yourself with a disclaimer though it’s always sensible. I’ve recently sold some paragliding equipment and my disclaimer was to have it all checked by a qualified person to deem it airworthy before flying.

 

dazmond

Well-known member
Messages
2,013
Location
salford, manchester
personally i think your worrying over nothing....once you sell the van its got nothing to do with you anymore and its up to the new owner to make sure its safe to drive with or without a tank.....sold as seen....?

 

Jonny 67

Active member
Messages
352
Location
North west
I'm going to sell it empty. I can reuse everything except the tank. I'm pretty sure I'd get £125 ish for a 650 upright wyedale tank. There is one other thing to worry about, I keep finding baby slugs in the van. I fear there may be hundreds of them under my tank ??

 

Master Jedi Alejandro

Premium Member
Messages
1,399
Location
Scotland
... but if you sell it as a window cleaning van you are now selling a vehicle for a specific purpose to fulfil a specific task. We all know that a van's loading hooks are limited in their holding capacity so if an injury occurs due to the tank breaking free, you have sold a van not fit for the purpose you have put it to.

Unfortunately I wouldn't like this to be sorted out in a court of law. So I would sell the van on its own and the window cleaning equipment as a separate identity. It could be sold to the same individual and put into the back of the van as a transported load. It's then up to the buyer to fit the system and take responsibility for ensuring it's done correctly.

In a case like this I would also draw up a disclaimer that the buyer needs to ensure that the system is fitted safely and that I, the seller, can't be held responsible if it isn't.

What makes sense to us may not make sense to us after it's been through a law court. There was a case recently when McDonalds got sued when a customer burnt herself with the hot coffee she ordered and won her case?

https://www.rd.com/article/hot-coffee-lawsuit/

Look at how the public reacted to the verdict.

BTW this is just my opinion. It doesn't mean that the points you make aren't valid.
That McDs cause was awful. The woman was made out to be a total opportunist trying to make a quick buck, but she only originally wanted McDs to cover her hospital bill & skin graft. It came out that McDs brewed their coffee hotter than most as it meant it would keep longer before having to be thrown out and therefore be more profitable. But it also caused it to be dangerous if spilt, while it normal coffee isn’t (if I’m not mistake). ?

 

spruce

The Sprucefather
Messages
7,933
Location
Teesside
That McDs cause was awful. The woman was made out to be a total opportunist trying to make a quick buck, but she only originally wanted McDs to cover her hospital bill & skin graft. It came out that McDs brewed their coffee hotter than most as it meant it would keep longer before having to be thrown out and therefore be more profitable. But it also caused it to be dangerous if spilt, while it normal coffee isn’t (if I’m not mistake). ?
I appreciate that this is America. The point I was thinking was that McDonalds had their reasons for selling super heated coffee that made total sense in their business model. An accident happened and what seemed a good business decision was deemed to be flawed in court. I doubt McDonalds entered into court thinking they could lose this lawsuit.

  IMHO you have to go to great lengths to cover your backside. I came across an example of a guy selling an Eberspatcher Airtronic diesel air heater on Ebay. It was in fully working order, but he sold it as "spares or repair". If he had sold it as a working unit and it had failed to start for the buyer for what ever reason, the seller would be responsible to get it back into working order or issue a refund with the difficult task of getting the unit back. Selling it as spares or repairs was the sellers way of covering himself and shifting responsibility.

 
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