Confused!....what kit is needed to produce pure for my backpack.

[spruce]

Hi Mrtaytay.

Always a difficult one to advise on. @Smurf has already alluded to what I would advise as well.

But this is going to more difficult for you as 'you just want wfp for those odd hard to reach windows'. This thinking is commendable. However, those who have found themselves in your position very quickly discovered that it was quicker and easier to just quickly do the window next to it whilst the pole is extended. The next step is that its quicker and better and safer to just do the tops wfp and trad the bottoms. Then it progresses to doing the whole lot wfp.

The time between just doing those hard to reach windows and then just doing the tops will be days apart. If you are short like me and need to stand on a box to reach the top of the downstairs windows, then the decision to wfp the downstairs windows will come very soon. (For me it was a same day decision. /emoticons/smile.png) )

From experience, buy the biggest and buy once. Invest now and convert to wfp totally. Yes, its going to cost, but the payback comes quickly after you have converted your customers over. Buying small and having to upgrade is more costly in the long run. I can tell you that from experience. Its also very frustrating, especially when you run out of water half way through the day.

If your water is around 80ppm then you could start by going di only. Yes, there is a cost to resin filtration, but you will be able to produce on demand.

I agree with @Smurf that the r/o you linked to is a total waste of time IMHO. As CnC says, the produced water quantities are lab based results; perfect water temperature and pressure. A day is 24 hours and the gallons are US gallons which is equivalent the 4 litres in the UK. Expect between 1/3 and 1/2 their quoted figures in the real world, especially in winter when the water is cold.

If you are going to go for that type of r/o then the smallest would be a 300gpd but I would spend a little more for a 450gpd and process water into an IBC tank and draw off as required.

Much cheaper here.

http://www.daqua.co.uk/ro_systems.htm

With that r/o I would also use a 6 or 7 litre di vessel rather than the small third housing some use on those r/o's.

And buy a good carbon fibre pole as well such a Gardiner SLX25. It will do 99% of your work.

 

[cheapncheerful]

Most important of all mr taytay...as mr mannering would say...

DONT PANIC....

its scary to move to a totally new world...

but let me telll you my pole went together easy my backpack followed but my ro...

stayed in the box for a week as it frightened the bjesus out of me...

after reading the instructions three times I thought ...well youve bought it now theres no going back and off I went.

they werent the best instructions but I did get it right first time...so if numpty here can do it ....anyone can..

ps ...there is a simpler easier system that nobody mentions much..

you just plug it in via hoselock to a custys tap and get pure out of the other end...and you just carry that around with you as its only light..around £250 and that will probs be my next purchase for houses where no one is around with an outside tap..

BUT most of all dont panic...we are all here to help and once you get that pure flowing I m sure the force will get you.../emoticons/biggrin.png

this is mine but you can knock £50 off if you dont want the booster pump

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141543953948?ru=http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?ssPageName=GSTL&_nkw=141543953948&_rdc=1

I dont want you to get scared and this one is easy to set up...

the big boys that do just wfp would need the bigger

pure maker but Im only a tiddler and this unit is not a problem and....

you can always buy an upgrade kit off him...

I have one job done last week three big units all done wfp and thats the way to do em and managed nicely on my 125 litres...ie backpack and four 25l containers..

it also keeps me fit jumping out or my chair to stop a flood every one hour thirty minutes as the barrel is full.

and dont forget about tedious creep...ask smurfy as he taught me...no thats not my name..although...

that other system I was talking about appears to be the one that was posted on here recently..

http://www.windowcleancentre.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?ProductID=374&SectionID=55

but does look great for the price with a pole as well..

and like I say if a custy has a tap.....

 

[Smurf]

I'm not trying to put you off but most start off with a backpack or trolley but like @spruce has already mentioned it don't take long to figure out that it's frustrating and bloody annoying to keep humping water about when a van mount is so much easier to use when your water usage increases. I've found a backpack/trolley has its uses but not for everyday work. Still after saying that a pf trolley first got me into water fed pole and cut down the amount of ladder work I needed to do so was not all bad on the safety side of things.

 

[mrtaytay]

Hi Mrtaytay.
Always a difficult one to advise on. @Smurfithas already alluded to what I would advise as well.

But this is going to more difficult for you as 'you just want wfp for those odd hard to reach windows'. This thinking is commendable. However, those who have found themselves in your position very quickly discovered that it was quicker and easier to just quickly do the window next to it whilst the pole is extended. The next step is that its quicker and better and safer to just do the tops wfp and trad the bottoms. Then it progresses to doing the whole lot wfp.

The time between just doing those hard to reach windows and then just doing the tops will be days apart. If you are short like me and need to stand on a box to reach the top of the downstairs windows, then the decision to wfp the downstairs windows will come very soon. (For me it was a same day decision. /emoticons/smile.png) )

From experience, buy the biggest and buy once. Invest now and convert to wfp totally. Yes, its going to cost, but the payback comes quickly after you have converted your customers over. Buying small and having to upgrade is more costly in the long run. I can tell you that from experience. Its also very frustrating, especially when you run out of water half way through the day.

If your water is around 80ppm then you could start by going di only. Yes, there is a cost to resin filtration, but you will be able to produce on demand.

I agree with @Smurf that the r/o you linked to is a total waste of time IMHO. As CnC says, the produced water quantities are lab based results; perfect water temperature and pressure. A day is 24 hours and the gallons are US gallons which is equivalent the 4 litres in the UK. Expect between 1/3 and 1/2 their quoted figures in the real world, especially in winter when the water is cold.

If you are going to go for that type of r/o then the smallest would be a 300gpd but I would spend a little more for a 450gpd and process water into an IBC tank and draw off as required.

Much cheaper here.

http://www.daqua.co.uk/ro_systems.htm

With that r/o I would also use a 6 or 7 litre di vessel rather than the small third housing some use on those r/o's.

And buy a good carbon fibre pole as well such a Gardiner SLX25. It will do 99% of your work.

Thanks for your detailed reply Spruce.

I already have a pole. I have had it for a year now......I needed a pole for cleaning a swimming pool roof. I also use It for cleaning conny roofs. I made the mistake of buying an xtel pole rather than an XLS, but i will have to ride with that one.

I can fully understand that once you start using the pole on one solitary window, it soon becomes tempting to move onto the next and then the next. Cant imagine the time it must save. I may well end up doing all of the upstairs windows in time, but cant envisage doing ground floor windows for the moment....I think a lot of my customers would object strongly....so I will tread very carefully.

I suppose I really ought to get a TDS meter, so that I can test my ppm. I am presuming My PPM is between 70 and 80 as all readings on the PPM map that are geographically close to me appear to fall in that range.If this is the case then it sounds like I could get away with just using a DI vessel, which, presumably you just plug into your tap and feed into your backpack/25litre container.

I really must get this ball rolling

 

[mrtaytay]

I'm not trying to put you off but most start off with a backpack or trolley but like @spruce has already mentioned it don't take long to figure out that it's frustrating and bloody annoying to keep humping water about when a van mount is so much easier to use when your water usage increases. I've found a backpack/trolley has its uses but not for everyday work. Still after saying that a pf trolley first got me into water fed pole and cut down the amount of ladder work I needed to do so was not all bad on the safety side of things.

Cheers Smurf.....well the backpack is already purchased, so I will have to stick with it. I can understand though, that all that lugging around and the limitations it has, will end up being a source of frustration. At the same time though, it will be a delight to get my pole up to some of those windows that I dread. It may well just be a starting point. Time will tell on that.

 

[mrtaytay]

Most important of all mr taytay...as mr mannering would say...
DONT PANIC....

its scary to move to a totally new world...

but let me telll you my pole went together easy my backpack followed but my ro...

stayed in the box for a week as it frightened the bjesus out of me...

after reading the instructions three times I thought ...well youve bought it now theres no going back and off I went.

they werent the best instructions but I did get it right first time...so if numpty here can do it ....anyone can..

ps ...there is a simpler easier system that nobody mentions much..

you just plug it in via hoselock to a custys tap and get pure out of the other end...and you just carry that around with you as its only light..around £250 and that will probs be my next purchase for houses where no one is around with an outside tap..

BUT most of all dont panic...we are all here to help and once you get that pure flowing I m sure the force will get you.../emoticons/biggrin.png

this is mine but you can knock £50 off if you dont want the booster pump

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141543953948?ru=http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?ssPageName=GSTL&_nkw=141543953948&_rdc=1

I dont want you to get scared and this one is easy to set up...

the big boys that do just wfp would need the bigger

pure maker but Im only a tiddler and this unit is not a problem and....

you can always buy an upgrade kit off him...

I have one job done last week three big units all done wfp and thats the way to do em and managed nicely on my 125 litres...ie backpack and four 25l containers..

it also keeps me fit jumping out or my chair to stop a flood every one hour thirty minutes as the barrel is full.

and dont forget about tedious creep...ask smurfy as he taught me...no thats not my name..although...

that other system I was talking about appears to be the one that was posted on here recently..

http://www.windowcleancentre.co.uk/productdetails.aspx?ProductID=374&SectionID=55

but does look great for the price with a pole as well..

and like I say if a custy has a tap.....

Cheers Cnc.....That ro unit looks good. Presumably, with the DI element to it, you get your ppm down to zero (why do I keep wanting to type ppi!). I am quite happy to start off small and see how things develop.....invest and upgrade as time goes on. Mr slowyly and surely!!

I think getting your water right and getting the right piece of kit for it is the most worrying aspect.

That unit on the windowclean centre looks prper good....just plug and play!

Now then...has the rain stopped!

 

[Smurf]

Once you have tested your tap water tds then if the reading is resonable below say 100ppm then in your case would be easier to go down the twin di route for now.

You can get 2 x 11 litre reconditioned DI vessels with a new risers from a chap on fleebay cheap. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11ltr-EMPTY-DI-VESSEL-Window-Cleaning-new-head-riser-tube-down-pipe-fittings-/151664528152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item234fe90b18

Then buy a 25 litre bag of mb 115 resin for about 75 from daqua.

http://www.daqua.co.uk/resins.htm

1 x HM Digital TDS-3 Handheld Meter With Carrying Case £12.60

2 x 11 ltr di vessel £80

2 x 25 ltr bag of mb 115 £119

Total spend to get you producing pure either at home or used on demand on-site if they have an outside tap for say that swimming pool roof job is only £211.60 plus a garden hose that you probably already have

You could also mount them on a decent trolley and put on an inline tds metre that will tell you the ppm of each tank at a glance if you wanted. http://www.daqua.co.uk/inlinetdsmeters.htm

Just to point out it's best to regulate the flow of the ouside tap going through the di resin so it has time to work more efficently. This can be achevied by either adding a tap hozelock type connector to both tank or just the second tank. When using it on-demad on a jobs you can just simply adjust the flow rate to your pole brush that suites the job best.

 

[mrtaytay]

Once you have tested your tap water tds then if the reading is resonable below say 100ppm then in your case would be easier to go down the twin di route for now.
You can get 2 x 11 litre reconditioned DI vessels with a new risers from a chap on fleebay cheap. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11ltr-EMPTY-DI-VESSEL-Window-Cleaning-new-head-riser-tube-down-pipe-fittings-/151664528152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item234fe90b18

Then buy a 25 litre bag of mb 115 resin for about 75 from daqua.

http://www.daqua.co.uk/resins.htm

1 x HM Digital TDS-3 Handheld Meter With Carrying Case £12.60

2 x 11 ltr di vessel £80

2 x 25 ltr bag of mb 115 £119

Total spend to get you producing pure either at home or used on demand on-site if they have an outside tap for say that swimming pool roof job is only £211.60 plus a garden hose that you probably already have

You could also mount them on a decent trolley and put on an inline tds metre that will tell you the ppm of each tank at a glance if you wanted. http://www.daqua.co.uk/inlinetdsmeters.htm

Just to point out it's best to regulate the flow of the ouside tap going through the di resin so it has time to work more efficently. This can be achevied by either adding a tap hozelock type connector to both tank or just the second tank. When using it on-demad on a jobs you can just simply adjust the flow rate to your pole brush that suites the job best.

Many thanks Smurf....its all starting to make a lot more sense. I do like the idea of producing pure on demand...most custies have an outside tap.

Right...off out into the dodgy weather!

 

[Smurf]

Unfortunately I live in a very hard water area so I can't use an on demand twin di trolley when needed. That would make my job so much easier than having to carry loads of pure water about on the type of jobs I do. Topping up my tanks with pure would also be a doddle too.

 

[heyoh]

Or jusg get a 200l water butt and collect rainwater, if you really just want to use it for a couple of windows a month that would give you enough nearly pure water, you only need a sediment filter and di resin and a sub pump

Water butt £30

Two 10" housing £40

Di insert £10

Sub pump £30

Sediment filter £5

+resin depending how much you need..

My rainwater never goes above 020, last fill was 009, resin lasts ages

 

[Smurf]

I use to harvest rainwater into 1000 ltr ibc's but seemed to be always having to still use an ro/di when my water usage increased so knocked that idea on the head.

 

[nick666]

Excellent recommendation -info from that chap is superb.I am more of a gutter chap myself but certainly food for thought.it would certainly improve speed and more importantly safety. as the old dentist joke goes"you want £90 to take my tooth out and it takes 1 minute?""No problem -if you want -I can take an hour"

I am now going to suggest something that may be contraversial.I have a v. small wc bus now about £170 a month so you can say i am talking bollox if you want.

Window cleaning is a business that I know I could expand by canvassing fairly easily.My problem is finding reliable people to do the work, who are comfortable climbing ladders and are competent etc.

This video has shown me that anyone,even me, can clean windows safely for about a £150 set up cost and a bit of effort.

Everyone on this site seems to me, to have a positive attitude about improving their lot as opposed to sitting on their arse as done by majority who want to pick up a few £ between giros or whatever they are called nowadays.-I also pay a chap £3 to clean my own windows -2 up 2 down cos it would cost me more to get my chap to do them /time/petrol wise.I do not care whether he cleans them trad, wifi, or with his arse as long as the leader of the opposition doesnt moan.DRUM ROLL......................... why doesnt every one spend £150 for the kit,trad or not and then market their service on "how would you feel if you came home home to find a dead window cleaner in your Rhodedendrums?"Can still do traditional for safer stuff but charge more for new business-over 10 people die each year from height related work which is the reality-does any one want a client who wont pay £2 extra a month for their safety?.

Does any one know whether there are any potential problems with that set up on conservatory roofs .?

 

[albootyerbaws]

70-80 ppm di only no need for r.o.

 

[Poles Apart]

Haven't read all the replies but 2 things to mention don't buy into the theory that van mount is better I don't agree? Second point why is a guy with a ppm of 70 to 80 using Ro?

 

[spruce]

Haven't read all the replies but 2 things to mention don't buy into the theory that van mount is better I don't agree? Second point why is a guy with a ppm of 70 to 80 using Ro?

If he isn't on a water meter then it still makes economic sense. If he is using 5000 liters of pure a month, then his resins costs at 80ppm will work out to about £58.00 per month. A 450 gpd r/o will pay for itself in around 3 months.

At that tap tds his membranes will last for a long time (mine lasted 6 years) so the only expense would be prefilters.

Yes, he will need a storage tank, and yes, he will need to buy a transfer pump and hose, but an r/o setup would be paid for in 6 or 7 months. I see that as a good investment TBH.

 

[Smurf]

From personal experience a van mount I find suites me much better but each to their own I suppose. I still have an old pf trolley in the van hooked up to van tanks but never find the need to actually use it as a trolley now.

Haven't read all the replies but 2 things to mention don't buy into the theory that van mount is better I don't agree? Second point why is a guy with a ppm of 70 to 80 using Ro?

 

[Smurf]

Going back to op post a backpack is stilll a good option for hybrid trad cleaners instead of risking life and limb trying to reach awkward windows