Welcome to the UK Window Cleaning Forums

Starting or own a window cleaning business? We're a network of window cleaners sharing advice, tips & experience. Rounds for sale & more. Join us today!

Political class move to block Brexit. Democracy? No, they do what they like

PJ Bullard

Active member
Messages
379
Location
Watford
Don't know if you guys have been following the news this week but something that has infuriated me has been the news that there are those in the policital/financial elite that are trying to block Brexit. Thought I'd post on here as had some interesting debates in the build up to the referendum.

17.4 million voters voted to leave the freedom destroying tyranny that is the EU, but our voice means nothing to these people. We live in a democracy? A fair society? A fair system? How, when our voice means NOTHING and they do what they want. Note, that if the vote went the other way, it would be a case of - 'Shows over, the people have spoken, we're staying in'.

Even is you voted to stay in, you need to realise that even when the people are 'given a choice', it doesn't mean anything and democracy is a fiction.

The amazing thing about the time we are living in is that the realisation of how things are manipulated and we are lied to abouut EVERYTHING is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass, so obvious in fact that you cannot ignore them anymore. Its slowly starting to dawn on people that we are controlled in multiple ways, not least politically but in far more subtle ways.

Many Donald Trump supporters are backing him because of this same realisation although I say they are mistaken if they think he will do anything different in the white house.

I guess the reason Im posting this is becasue 1- I want to blow off some steam and 2- becasue I want to hear from you guys, what do you think of this grotesque injustice and insult to US THE PEOPLE?

Watch this for more info:

[media]

[/media]
 
Would help if video had sound?

As for the vote? Yep I voted. Yep I voted out for a blodless revolution. Was I ignored? Seems so. Will I ever vote again? Nope, no point.

Now I sit back and wait for the old fashioned style of revolutuon.

 
Funny one, i wanted to stay in but the vote was for out and so should be respected otherwise whats the point. Even though is seems doing a u turn would be for the best you just cant do it surely.

 
I voted to remain, I do not for one second think the result will be reversed, but if it did I would be left incredibly angry and disgusted.

Riot!!!

 
The referendum was only advisory and consequently there needs to be an act of parliament before article before article 50 is triggered.

It would be unlawful to proceed without this.

It's nothing to do with the political elite (although some people with their own agendas would like you to think that) but a matter of law.

Also, should we not know what the terms of us leaving the EU are to be? Rather than let the tories push through anything they want?

 
@Solarpanelcleanington the referendum was not advertised as advisory. I, like every citezen in this country, got a pamplet through my letter box just before the referendum and it said to quote todays Daily Mail:


Sent to every household before the referendum, the pamphlet stated clearly: ‘This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.’ Despite this, the High Court ruled the referendum was merely ‘advisory’ and could not be activated without Parliamentary approval.





Now do you see the blatent hypocrisy?

See: Fury over High Court judges who defied Brexit voters and could trigger constitutional crisis | Daily Mail Online

 
I agree solar however if the decision to leave is now blocked that makes a mockery of our system.

This may be advisory but this will prove that "my vote don't count"

Over 12% of votes in the 2015 general election went to ukip yet they have 1 seat on this decision.

Snp received 4% of the votes and have 56 seats on this decision that is not fair.

What will be hilarious is if the pm wins her appeal and the the Re-moaners then take the appeal to the European court of justice (our highest court whilst we are in the EU) and then Europe decide what we can do lmao!!!

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 
@Solarpanelcleanington the referendum was not advertised as advisory. I, like every citezen in this country, got a pamplet through my letter box just before the referendum and it said to quote todays Daily Mail:

Sent to every household before the referendum, the pamphlet stated clearly: ‘This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.’ Despite this, the High Court ruled the referendum was merely ‘advisory’ and could not be activated without Parliamentary approval.





Now do you see the blatent hypocrisy?

See: Fury over High Court judges who defied Brexit voters and could trigger constitutional crisis | Daily Mail Online
Woh!! Just having a giggle, wind your neck in :rolleyes:

 
I don't believe anything the mail prints.

If you don't like living in a parliamentary democracy, then perhaps find a constructive way to challenge it?

We will leave the EU, I for one would like to know the terms upon which our exit planned. Be idiotic not too.

 
I may be wrong @Solarpanelcleanington but you're not British anyway are you?

Also all Scottish MPs should be outright banned from any say whatsoever as long as their leader is still crying on about another vote to leave the UK.

Why not let the English vote on weather Scotland should remain? Oh no that's right as usuall you have to rig these things best you can.

 
@Solarpanelcleanington thats your right not to believe a thing the Daily Mail prints but we all got the pamplet through our doors, correct? And it outright lied to us all in its wording, correct? Why would you defend something that is an insult to your intelligence?

As for what you say about parlimentary democracy, it doesn't exist. Its a hoax, a giant side show.

Our EU 'exit' will be watered down so heavily that it will be as though we are still in it. At the end of the day, there is an agenda to create 5 giant superstates under a world government. EU, African Union, Asia Pacific Union and the Americas. The 'will of the people' was never going to be considered. Simple as

 
@Solarpanelcleanington thats your right not to believe a thing the Daily Mail prints but we all got the pamplet through our doors, correct? And it outright lied to us all in its wording, correct? Why would you defend something that is an insult to your intelligence?As for what you say about parlimentary democracy, it doesn't exist. Its a hoax, a giant side show.
No probs. Love these conspiracy theories. Might have to investigate these books. Although them being as thick as the yellow pages puts me off a bit, its finding the time and effort, knackered during the week after working so reading would send me to sleep, and weekends are football, motorbikes, drinking etc. This is why I only normally read books on holiday.

I went into the library yesterday and asked if they had any books on suicide.

She said p*ss off, you'll never bring it back /emoticons/biggrin.png

 
I may be wrong @Solarpanelcleanington but you're not British anyway are you?
Why is my nationality relevant?

I shan't answer the question as I believe opinions from all people should be treated equally in a discussion. If I have family and pay tax in Britain, to suggest my views are inferior is prejudice and narrow minded. Arguably typical of those that don't comprehend the legal side of the parliamentary system.

 
Why is my nationality relevant?
I shan't answer the question as I believe opinions from all people should be treated equally in a discussion. If I have family and pay tax in Britain, to suggest my views are inferior is prejudice and narrow minded. Arguably typical of those that don't comprehend the legal side of the parliamentary system.
Was it an extra serving of over touchy flakes for breakfast today?

I have said nothing of your right to an opinion. I have simply made an inquisitive query as for me understanding what non Brits think of it all is interseting.

The fact that you are a foreigner is not your fault, someone has to be. /emoticons/tongue.png

I myself am not British and wife is also from S.E. Asia (even though now a British Citizen)

Put the touchy stick away and engage in friendly debate mate. :thumbsup:

 
For those that don't believe that the powers that be have their own agenda and do what they like read this

The fact that we are part of europe in the first place can be disputed as they didn't join with the consent of the electorate (us who vote) anyway

So to think it is all above board now would be insane

www.vernoncoleman.com

That link just takes you to home page somehow

Long read but if you are interested

Was Britain Taken Into The EU Illegally?

Vernon Coleman

Many constitutional experts believe that Britain isn't actually a member of the European Union since our apparent entry was in violation of British law and was, therefore invalid.

In enacting the European Communities Bill through an ordinary vote in the House of Commons, Ted Heath's Government breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation of the people (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measure involving constitutional change. The general election or referendum must take place before any related parliamentary debate. (Britain has no straightforward written constitution. But, the signing of the Common Market entrance documents was, without a doubt, a breach of the spirit of our constitution.)

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people'.

However, when it came to it Heath didn't have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.

Some MPs have subsequently claimed that `Parliament can do whatever it likes'. But that isn't true, of course. Parliament consists of a number of individual MPs who have been elected by their constituents to represent them. Political parties are not recognised in our system of government and Parliament does not have the right to change the whole nature of Britain's constitution. We have (or are supposed to have) an elective democracy not an elective dictatorship. Parliament may, in law and in day to day issues, be the sovereign power in the state, but the electors are (in the words of Dicey's `Introduction for the Study of the Law of the Constitution' published in 1885) `the body in which sovereign power is vested'. Dicey goes on to point out that `in a political sense the electors are the most important part of, we may even say are actually, the sovereign power, since their will is under the present constitution sure to obtain ultimate obedience.' Bagehot, author of The English Constitution, 1867, describes the nation, through Parliament, as `the present sovereign'.

In 1972, when Heath decided to take Britain into the Common Market, he used Parliament's legal sovereignty to deny and permanently limit the political sovereignty of the electorate. Heath and Parliament changed the basic rules and they did not have the right (legal or moral) to do that. The 1972 European Communities Bill wasn't just another Act of Parliament. Heath's Bill used Parliament's legal sovereignty, and status as representative of the electorate, to deny the fundamental rights of the electorate.

Precedents show that the British constitution (which may not be written and formalised in the same way as the American constitution is presented) but which is, nevertheless, enshrined and codified in the Magna Carta (1215), the Petition of Right (1628), the Bill of Rights (1689) and the Act of Settlement (1701) requires Parliament to consult the electorate directly where constitutional change which would affect their political sovereignty is in prospect. (The 1689 Bill of Rights contains the following oath: `I do declare that no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority within this Realm.' Since this Bill has not been repealed it is clear that every treaty Britain has signed with the EU has been illegal.)

So, for example, Parliament was dissolved in 1831/2 to obtain the electorate's authority for the Reform Bill and again in 1910 following the Lord's rejection of the Liberal Finance Bill.

In 1975, when the Government changed, Harold Wilson sought to put right the clear constitutional error by organising a retrospective referendum (something quite unprecedented in British history) designed to obtain the permission of the British people for Britain to join something it had already `joined'.

Wilson's referendum was inspired solely by the realisation that the consent of the electorate ought first to have been obtained before we joined the EEC. The lack of legitimacy of the European Communities Act brought about the decision by the incoming Prime Minister and Labour leadership that a referendum should be held in preference to yet another general election.

But, almost inevitably, the question asked in the referendum was also illegal since voters were asked: `Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?'

The problem was that since Heath had ignored the constitution duties and requirements of Parliament and had signed the entrance documents illegally the words `stay in' were deceptive. We couldn't stay in the EEC because, constitutionally, we had never entered. We couldn't enter the Common Market because Parliament did not have the right to sign away our sovereignty.

The referendum Wilson organised to remedy Heath's constitutional breach misled the electorate on a simple constitutional issue and was, therefore, itself illegal. (Wilson's referendum was passed after a good deal of very one-sided propaganda was used to influence public opinion. If the nation had voted against our `continued' membership of the EEC the political embarrassment for all politicians would have been unbearable.)

Attempts through the courts to annul our membership of the European Union on the basis that Parliament acted improperly have failed because Parliament, through its legal sovereignty, is the source of the law in Britain and the courts are, therefore, unable to challenge any Parliamentary Act.

Only Parliament can reclaim the legislative powers that Heath and subsequent Prime Ministers have handed to the European Union.

And so, only when Parliament is filled with honest politicians (not inevitably an oxymoron) who are not controlled by the private party system will the mistake be rectified and our membership annulled.

Britain's entry into the Common Market (later to be transformed into the EU) was also illegal for another reason. The Prime Minister who signed the entry documents, Edward Heath, later confirmed that he had lied to the British people about the implications of the Treaty.

Heath told the electorate that signing the Treaty of Rome would lead to no essential loss of National Sovereignty but later admitted that this was a lie. Astonishingly, Heath said he lied because he knew that the British would not approve of him signing the Treaty if they knew the truth. Heath told voters that the EEC was merely a free trade association. But he was lying through his teeth. He knew that the original members of the EEC had a long-standing commitment to political union and the step by step creation of a European superstate.

Edward Heath received a substantial financial bribe for taking Britain into the EU when he was Prime Minister. (Heath was no stranger to bribery. One of his aides bribed a senior Labour Party official £25,000 for details of Harold Wilson's election tactics.) The reward of £35,000, paid personally to Heath and at the time a substantial sum of money, was handed over to him (in the guise of The Charlemagne Prize) for signing the Treaty of Rome.

Because of Heath's dishonesty we never actually joined the Common Market. And so all the subsequent treaties that were signed were illegal.

Britain's Treason Act (1351) is (at the time of writing) still in place. It states `that treason is committed when a man be adherent to the King's enemies in his realm, giving them aid and comfort in the realm'.

And under the Treason Felony Act (1848) it is treason if `any person whatsoever shall, within the United Kingdom or without, devise or intend to deprive our most gracious Lady the Queen (Elizabeth) from the style, honour or Royal Name of the Imperial crown of the United Kingdom.'

Our membership of the European Union will mean the end of the United Kingdom. So, since our membership of the European Union will doubtless `deprive our most gracious Lady the Queen from the style, honour or Royal Name of the Imperial crown of the United Kingdom' Britain's entry into the Common Market, under Edward Heath's signature, was null and void.

Heath committed an act of treason. He betrayed the Queen and he deliberately misled the British people.

Does any of this really matter to politicians?

Is there any hope that Parliament will repeal the 1972 European Communities Act and restore sovereignty to the people? Not in the immediate future.

But the errors made by Heath and Wilson mean that when we want to leave the EU it will be very easy.

Because, officially, we never joined.

An independent British Parliament would simply have to pass one short Act of Parliament and give notice to the EU and we would be out of this accursed club.

Copyright Vernon Coleman 2011

Taken from Vernon Coleman's book OFPIS (for details of how to purchase a copy see the bookshop on this site.)

Home

 
Don't know if you guys have been following the news this week but something that has infuriated me has been the news that there are those in the policital/financial elite that are trying to block Brexit. Thought I'd post on here as had some interesting debates in the build up to the referendum.
17.4 million voters voted to leave the freedom destroying tyranny that is the EU, but our voice means nothing to these people. We live in a democracy? A fair society? A fair system? How, when our voice means NOTHING and they do what they want. Note, that if the vote went the other way, it would be a case of - 'Shows over, the people have spoken, we're staying in'.

Even is you voted to stay in, you need to realise that even when the people are 'given a choice', it doesn't mean anything and democracy is a fiction.

The amazing thing about the time we are living in is that the realisation of how things are manipulated and we are lied to abouut EVERYTHING is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass, so obvious in fact that you cannot ignore them anymore. Its slowly starting to dawn on people that we are controlled in multiple ways, not least politically but in far more subtle ways.

Many Donald Trump supporters are backing him because of this same realisation although I say they are mistaken if they think he will do anything different in the white house.

I guess the reason Im posting this is becasue 1- I want to blow off some steam and 2- becasue I want to hear from you guys, what do you think of this grotesque injustice and insult to US THE PEOPLE?

Watch this for more info:

[media]

I feel u ,saying same for decades,a soon the y gonna do it openly nuffin we can do,just come out from them till they fall,waiting game got to stay unaffected he that hears will hear,gunna get worse etc etc etc,keep cool

 
Back
Top