Failing pump, or controller?

[Daftoldgit]

Over the last few months I've been gradually having to turn up the flow controller to maintain the same flow, up by another 2 every month or so.
I don't know if it's the pump or the controller, or how to tell without replacing one or the other? I'm guessing it's the pump as it's getting on a bit now, just wondering if there's a way to check the pump before spending out on a new one.

 

[Pjj]

Have you checked your battery it could be it’s not holding charge ?

 

[Daftoldgit]

I did wonder about the battery, but I ruled it out it cos the flow doesn't drop during the day at all, it is a bit old though...

 

[Dabber]

Have you checked the filter prior to the pump to make sure there’s no debris in it .

 

[Daftoldgit]

It doesn't have a filter on mine.

 

[Pjj]

It doesn't have a filter on mine.

Could that be part of the problem ? debris in the pump ?

 

[spruce]

It doesn't have a filter on mine.

Could be why. In the pump head is a small non-return valve. This non-return valve stops backwash back to the tank. If the seat on the non-return valve is full of muck, then it could affect the operation of the pump. I occasionally clean my pump prefilter out and amazed at how much muck the screen catches.

I've also noticed the water in my IBC tank is much cooler these days. The water I transferred to my van's tank was 10 degrees C last week. Cold water doesn't flow as well as warm water does.

 

[Iron Giant]

I've also noticed the water in my IBC tank is much cooler these days. The water I transferred to my van's tank was 10 degrees C last week. Cold water doesn't flow as well as warm water does.

It must be colder over your way, I had a skinny dip in an oak barrel we have in our garden and it was 12c this morning

 

[Daftoldgit]

Cheers- I will have a look inside the pump and clean it up and see what happens, I've never took one apart, are they easy to dismantle? well everythings easy to dismantle.. easy to reassemble?

 

[spruce]

Cheers- I will have a look inside the pump and clean it up and see what happens, I've never took one apart, are they easy to dismantle? well everythings easy to dismantle.. easy to reassemble?

Yes, but you need to progress slowly and not let any parts (coil spring) escape into at atmosphere, never to be found again.

Here's a copy of my Shurflo pump specs. If you look at the part's schematic, you will be able to see the exact way the parts reassemble by following the order they are drawn in the illustration.

 

[Daftoldgit]

Oh wow, thank you Spruce, and that's my pump too, perfect!

 

[Pjj]

I have only taken the aquatec pumps apart but it’s not to difficult if there is any debris in the diaphragms that will probably explain your issues .

 

[Ian Sheppard]

I would agree with the above advice on checking the pump for debris. Also picking up on the battery comment. Over time Batteries do not hold charge as well and thi can mean they appear fully charged at the start of the day but volts fall quickly and the charge does not last as long as previously. A sign of a worn battery is how fast volts drop as it comers under load from the pump. A good condition battery will start around 12.5 to 13V. As the pump starts the volts will drop a little to maybe 12.3 to 12.8v. The battery will hold this voltage for a couple hours or so and then slowly drop. If Battery volts drop quickly in the first 15 to 30 minutes use it is time to change the battery.

An older battery will not deliver volts at a constantly level and this might mean the flow rate fluctuates

 

[spruce]

I would agree with the above advice on checking the pump for debris. Also picking up on the battery comment. Over time Batteries do not hold charge as well and thi can mean they appear fully charged at the start of the day but volts fall quickly and the charge does not last as long as previously. A sign of a worn battery is how fast volts drop as it comers under load from the pump. A good condition battery will start around 12.5 to 13V. As the pump starts the volts will drop a little to maybe 12.3 to 12.8v. The battery will hold this voltage for a couple hours or so and then slowly drop. If Battery volts drop quickly in the first 15 to 30 minutes use it is time to change the battery.

An older battery will not deliver volts at a constantly level and this might mean the flow rate fluctuates

9 out of 10 times, the battery or a poor connection are the culprits. In so many cases though, the battery is what many window cleaners fail to maintain correctly.

 

[Iron Giant]

9 out of 10 times, the battery or a poor connection are the culprits. In so many cases though, the battery is what many window cleaners fail to maintain correctly.

An issue also so is plenty get sold a system with a SCR and are either told or assume that the SCR will maintain the charge and longevity then either weeks or months down the line they are dumbfounded that their battery isn't lasting all week or is dead after a few hours work after finally succumbing to buying a battery charger and giving it a bench charge,

I go on Facebook a bit and it's amazing how many haven't got a clue about the very basic stuff, you get questions like why is my controller not working and what is de a guy on there yesterday trying to help a mate set up a new system he didn't have a clue about calibration.

 

[JohnDoeWindows]

An issue also so is plenty get sold a system with a SCR and are either told or assume that the SCR will maintain the charge and longevity then either weeks or months down the line they are dumbfounded that their battery isn't lasting all week or is dead after a few hours work after finally succumbing to buying a battery charger and giving it a bench charge,

I go on Facebook a bit and it's amazing how many haven't got a clue about the very basic stuff, you get questions like why is my controller not working and what is de a guy on there yesterday trying to help a mate set up a new system he didn't have a clue about calibration.

I do quite a lot of mileage as I live out in the sticks and travel into nearby towns for work, I'm definitely guilty of what you mentioned above - my battery and SCR is brand new so I'm unlikely to encounter any issues yet, if you're doing high mileage is it still worth bench charging? The guys at PureFreedom actually told me I wouldn't need to but I think that's because they wanted me to pay extra for the SCR in the first place

 

[Part Timer]

I do quite a lot of mileage as I live out in the sticks and travel into nearby towns for work, I'm definitely guilty of what you mentioned above - my battery and SCR is brand new so I'm unlikely to encounter any issues yet, if you're doing high mileage is it still worth bench charging? The guys at PureFreedom actually told me I wouldn't need to but I think that's because they wanted me to pay extra for the SCR in the first place

We have 1 week of "local" work where we might do 60 miles in a week and only started having battery problems when the battery was around 5 years old. Never bench charged a battery but we do have a week a month where we do 600ish miles so the batteries are fully charged from that.

 

[JohnDoeWindows]

We have 1 week of "local" work where we might do 60 miles in a week and only started having battery problems when the battery was around 5 years old. Never bench charged a battery but we do have a week a month where we do 600ish miles so the batteries are fully charged from that.

I'd say I probably do circa 40 miles a day so I'm probably doing similar mileage to you to be honest.

 

[spruce]

An issue also so is plenty get sold a system with a SCR and are either told or assume that the SCR will maintain the charge and longevity then either weeks or months down the line they are dumbfounded that their battery isn't lasting all week or is dead after a few hours work after finally succumbing to buying a battery charger and giving it a bench charge,

I go on Facebook a bit and it's amazing how many haven't got a clue about the very basic stuff, you get questions like why is my controller not working and what is de a guy on there yesterday trying to help a mate set up a new system he didn't have a clue about calibration.

Another reason why more and more battery manufacturers refuse warranty claims on window cleaner's batteries. As an industry, we are classed as battery abusers.

It takes a long time to fully recharge a leisure battery. In my opinion, the only way to do this is by regularly bench charging it. Even sophisticated battery 2 battery chargers won't fully recharge most of our leisure batteries, as we don't do the mileage.

Even with a battery 2 battery charger, I now 'bench charge' my leisure battery every evening when I get home.

 

[ched999uk]

I do quite a lot of mileage as I live out in the sticks and travel into nearby towns for work, I'm definitely guilty of what you mentioned above - my battery and SCR is brand new so I'm unlikely to encounter any issues yet, if you're doing high mileage is it still worth bench charging? The guys at PureFreedom actually told me I wouldn't need to but I think that's because they wanted me to pay extra for the SCR in the first place

One thing you could do to try and prevent issues is use a voltmeter and measure the battery voltage about 4 hrs after you get home. 4 hrs after the battery has last been charged the battery voltage has stabilised so you will get an accurate charge reading.

12.73v is 100% charged (although that depends a little on battery type - lead acid, AGM etc) although it also depends on what sites you read but 12.73v to about 13v is good. If it is sitting more like 12.05v then that's only about 50% charged and you must bench charge as taking it below 50% charge will reduce the life of the battery.

I am not sure how accurate spring controllers voltage display is but using a voltmeter is good practice as it also helps if you need to find a fault. They are less than £10 from Amazon like this Multimeter £10 with 10Amps

PureFreedom don't really care how long your battery lasts as it's not them paying for a replacement! Look after all your kit and it will serve you well but neglect things and they will let you down. That's not to say that even the best maintained systems can't get faults!!

 

[Part Timer]

I'd say I probably do circa 40 miles a day so I'm probably doing similar mileage to you to be honest.

We didn't have electric reels in those days so we would probably struggled if we had.