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Thefettler

Hello,

Just wondering if someone could give me some advice, I used to have my own Window Round in the late nineties and left it for full time employment in late 2002. I have recently been made redundant and rather than sitting around waiting for p/t work or nothing to come along I have canvassed my local area for having the windows cleaned (based on my knowledge of no regular cleaner operating in the immediate area). I have been rather excited about getting back into it as I have had nearly 150 dwellings take me on...

Now... Earlier this evening I have read that is against the law for me to use ladders??????

I need advice asap as to whether I will be ok to do so, my round consists only of standard 2 storey semi detached and detached properties - no high rise or retail spaces...

Don't want to waffle on as I guess this is old news to all of you but if you could give me some advice asap I would be most grateful.

Thank you in advance.

 
Without going into to much detail there are a lot of people on here that do trad cleaning & we all use ladders. Ladders are not banned but you have to use the right ones. Trade ladders & not DIY ones. I'm sure some will come on with more detail but I will be out tomorrow doing my days work with my ladders as I have done for the last 4 years.

 
No against the law. Lots of wfp guys will try to tell you this. If you read the legislation. You are allowed up to first floor. However if there is a more acceptable and safer way to do the jobs your are to use it. However if the only other option than ladders is to hire a £250 a day cherry picker for a £10 job you can use the ladder.

 
No against the law. Lots of wfp guys will try to tell you this. If you read the legislation. You are allowed up to first floor.
on the impact 43 course i did few years back Andy(tutor) said and he had some form on legislation to back it up but it said you can use ladders upto 8 or 10 meters high if no other alternative (cnt remember which one) anyways bottom line is ladders are definitely not banned
 
Thanks Posh - think i'll be following in your footsteps next Monday when I start out.... Ladders all the way for me and I won't be going any higher than the first floor so it would seem (apart from the post directly above) that'll all will be ok??

 
Get them ladders out on Monday and get cleaning mate banned is a word we dont use on here :Image13: usually stay safe

 
Everyone here will tell you that ladders are not banned - this is true.

I'd be fairly confident in saying that EVERYONE here using ladders is (technically) breaking the law though, and most of them know it!

The reason? Ladder use is not banned, but the use of ladders is restricted. The law (and it is LAW, not a guideline) states that ladders can only be used where there is no other practicable method. If you work at height when there is another practicable method of carrying out your task without work at height - you are breaking the law. 20 years of WFP and thousands of window cleaners who've sucessfully switched over have proved it to be a practicable alternative, even if ladders are still needed on rare occasions for access to awkward windows. The word "practicable" used in the regulatory documents does take into account factors like your time in the business, ability to afford the equipment etc - - but DIY setups are so cheap that I doubt anyone in the business could claim financial reasons as an excuse if they're more than a couple of years on the glass.

Its not a law that is well policed - fines only usually come after an accident, its very rare that a health & safety guy will stop a window cleaner in the street!

In the event of an accident though, if you're seen to be breaking the law in the way you work,.. will your insurance pay out?

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg401.pdf

 
'This leaflet contains notes which are good practice but not compulsery is quotation on final page. Does that refer to said document or am I reading it wrong?

 
The leaflet is an interpretation of the law, not the legal wording itself, so they have to put that,

 
Ladders may not have been banned but the law is very clear on the fact that you should not use them unless necessary, in the case of window cleaning they are not necessary at all any more, also as a side point the HSE say you shouldn't go up a ladder if you're greater than 15 stone too.

 
When can ladders be used? Ladder can be used if after assessing the risks the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of LOW RISK AND SHORT DURATION

 
Is it really short duration if you're up & down ladders all day? It might be at different houses, but if they're still used for your work all day long then it can't be classed as short duration,..

 
There's a load of requirements for your ladders now and I'll wager 99% of window cleaners don't meet them. I know mine do as they are HSE approved.

 
There's a load of requirements for your ladders now and I'll wager 99% of window cleaners don't meet them. I know mine do as they are HSE approved.
I thought there was no need to use ladders for window cleaning? How do you know what other window cleaners ladders are like unless you check each one?
 
Is it really short duration if you're up & down ladders all day? It might be at different houses, but if they're still used for your work all day long then it can't be classed as short duration,..
This my friend is your interpretation and not law
 
This my friend is your interpretation and not law
My interpretation - yes. Its also basic common sense,... the reason behind the "short duration" phrase is a simple assesment of risk. Risk increases the longer you're up a ladder - but the risk is accumalative, the risk factor does not reset back to zero every time your feet touch the floor!
I've seen too many window cleaners seriously injured to leave this one go lightly - - if you want to take risks yourself, then on your head be it,... but publicly encouraging others who are just starting out in this business to do the same is inexcusable IMO.

Ladder use should be minimised WHEREVER POSSIBLE, full stop. That is the law.

 
You are ignoring what is in the law are you a judge? You use a ladder correctly it is low risk and short duration as allowed,.When you climb off your ladder and feet are on the ground risk factor is over.You can not fall off a ladder unless you are on it so you are wrong

Safe use of ladders is just what it says SAFE . If you use a ladder correctly and safely you will not fall of it.If you are using unsafe practices on ladder you are not safe and risk factor is high.

What is inexcusable is cherry picking parts of law and ignoring parts that you disagree with

The original question was are ladders banned you have not shown this in any of your comments instead you are arguing safety of ladder use and your own prejudice against ladders being used to clean windows.

IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW

 
I thought there was no need to use ladders for window cleaning? How do you know what other window cleaners ladders are like unless you check each one?
I don't use mine for window cleaning, I use mine for what they are designed - access only, they are not a work platform. I'll bet that very few of the people you do see up a ladder have locking mechanism on the rungs for when they are extended to lock them in position (mine do), nor do they fix them to the wall when they are working - Schedule 6 of the Working at height legislation states the ladder should be prevented from moving before you step on them.
 
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