When to change filters and resin?

[paul1]

personally prefer to always use 000 no exceptions just my own personal preference and I am offering totally pure water window cleaning so like to know its zero but each to their own I suppose

 

[paul1]

A mate of mine was chatting to a guy doing some blocks of flats the other week using 25ppm ish water, who said yep its orate no issues. Thats a bit high for me but shows what you can get away with, I have not risked going above 6 ish, but think I will try to 10 this time round and see how it goes.
you will always get 0ppm when changing resin, but if that don't last long then you may have a issue with the R/O, also change pre filters every 3 months or so at 300pm tap

hows the poket pole going trev still ok ? still thinking of getting one but cant make mind uo to go for it

 

[Trev81]

personally prefer to always use 000 no exceptions just my own personal preference and I am offering totally pure water window cleaning so like to know its zero but each to their own I suppose

000ppm may not be pure anymore if you step it up to a Ionic zero 0 parts per billion :rofl:

Yeh it's nice on 0 mate, mine is most times, but really no difference at all to 5. Dount you will get customers popping out with a TDS reader.

 

[Trev81]

hows the poket pole going trev still ok ? still thinking of getting one but cant make mind uo to go for it

It's always good mate, use it daily.:thumbsup:

 

[CHWS]

How often do yous shake up your resin bottle ?

 

[Trev81]

How often do yous shake up your resin bottle ?

I've only tried that once and never made a difference, currently on 7ppm so might give it another try tonight before I change it

 

[spruce]

ive changed the resin, and down to 0ppm for now! Just can't remember which way I need to turn the red tap to flush the membrane and which way is normal as I've lost my pure freedom Manuel and there seems to be no difference with each way I turn it, still new to this water purification stuff.

PureFreedom use a gate valve. To open the gate valve to flush you turn the red handle anticlockwise. You can't help but notice a difference as most of the water will be going down the drain.

To stop flushing you slowly close the tap, but don't shut it completely. You need to close it enough to find the sweet spot where the r/o is producing the lowest ppm output (before di.) It will probably be somewhere between 3 to 1 and 1 to 1 waste to pure (ie 3 liters of waste to 1 liter of pure.)

Then mark the handle for next time. I have an inline tds meter on my system covering the r/o output tds and the output tds after the di. It makes tweaking the waste valve for optimum output much more simple.

If you completely close that waste valve then you could damage your membranes. I have a feeling that PF drill a 1mm hole in the gate valve as a fail safe against closing it completely, but I could be wrong on that. (When I fitted a gate valve to my 4040 I drilled a hole in the 'gate' so I'm guaranteed not to damage the membrane.) You can hear when the gate valve is just about starting to close as the sound (note) of the water passing through the valve starts to change. It sounds similar to a toilet cistern as it reaches the end of it's fill.

The di vessel I have is a 6 liter one and the resin lasts about a year. I have to give the vessel a shake after about 10 months and it will return to zero. I can then get another 2 months. I've shaken it again but it made no difference, so I replaced the resin. The tds after r/o is 2ppm for me atm.

You need to be changing prefilters regularly as well. I think PF suggest every 3 months for both sediment and carbon.

I use a 20" sediment and a 20" fiberdyne carbon block prefilter from Gardiners. According to manufacturers spec the fiberdyne c/b has a service life of 78,000 liters (waste + pure.) (The accuracy of the service life of c/b filters suggested by the manufacturers is open to debate, but I haven't had any issues with membrane life following these recommendations.) I have a water meter on my system so I can monitor when the service life is up.

 

[CHWS]

I've only tried that once and never made a difference, currently on 7ppm so might give it another try tonight before I change it

Mine was on 3 and it hasn't even been in a month and I don't use it everyday

 

[steve garwood]

The other thing to do to make the resin last much longer is to take off the inlet pipe to the resin vessel, then run the system for a couple of minutes letting the water pour into a container.

At this stage the t.d.s will be high, but after a couple of mins it should have dropped down to a sensible level (between 20 and 5).

That's the time to re connect the inlet pipe so the resin isn't getting so much work :thumbsup:

 

[spruce]

Mine was on 3 and it hasn't even been in a month and I don't use it everyday

The other side of the coin is how big the di vessel is. The bigger it is the more resin it holds and the longer it will last.

The di vessel that we first used was the one that came with the 450gpd r/o. It was the last 10" housing that contained a di resin canister.

That was a waste of time.

You need to work out what the tds output is from your r/o. The higher that tds reading is the shorter the resin will last. For example, my output tds from my r/o is 2. The resin in the di vessel lasts a year. If my rejection rate was 6 then my resin would only last 4 months. So what appears to be a small increase in output tds can have a dramatic effect on the longevity of the resin.

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[Trev81]

The other side of the coin is how big the di vessel is. The bigger it is the more resin it holds and the longer it will last.
The di vessel that we first used was the one that came with the 450gpd r/o. It was the last 10" housing that contained a di resin canister.

That was a waste of time.

You need to work out what the tds output is from your r/o. The higher that tds reading is the shorter the resin will last. For example, my output tds from my r/o is 2. The resin in the di vessel lasts a year. If my rejection rate was 6 then my resin would only last 4 months. So what appears to be a small increase in output tds can have a dramatic effect on the longevity of the resin.

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Whats your tap TDS to be getting 2 from your RO? I'd prob not bother with DI if I could get 2 straight out my RO as you won't spot at all with that reading.

I have a tap TDS around 245 and get about 25 out my RO once it has been on a few minutes. Thats with a pressure of 50psi

 

[CHWS]

My tap is about 40 odd

 

[spruce]

Whats your tap TDS to be getting 2 from your RO? I'd prob not bother with DI if I could get 2 straight out my RO as you won't spot at all with that reading.
I have a tap TDS around 245 and get about 25 out my RO once it has been on a few minutes. Thats with a pressure of 50psi

Between 96 and 125.

Before they relined the water pipes a good few years ago now our tap tds was 255. The rejection rate was 6ppm with a tap water pressure of 40 psi. That was with a 450GPD r/o and no booster pump.

 

[Trev81]

Between 96 and 125.
Before they relined the water pipes a good few years ago now our tap tds was 255. The rejection rate was 6ppm with a tap water pressure of 40 psi. That was with a 450GPD r/o and no booster pump.

Any idea why I am not getting those kind of figures? I have a Xline low pressure 40/40 membrane thats coming on to 1 year old. Just done a check after a min or so of running I am getting 26ppm out of it, tap TDS going in is 245ppm

 

[Trev81]

My tap is about 40 odd

Lucky you /emoticons/smile.png

But I bet with such a low TDS from the tap plenty of homeowners just power wash there own windows or hose them off with results not been terrible lol!

 

[CHWS]

Haha never thought of that

 

[spruce]

Any idea why I am not getting those kind of figures? I have a Xline low pressure 40/40 membrane thats coming on to 1 year old. Just done a check after a min or so of running I am getting 26ppm out of it, tap TDS going in is 245ppm

Sorry @Trev81. That's an efficiency of 89.4%. That indicates an issue with membranes IMHO. I personally wouldn't let the rejection rate drop below 94%. I have an HF5 membrane and our current water pressure is 50 psi. The membrane is 3 1/2 years old and still performing as it did when new.

 

[Trev81]

Sorry @Trev81. That's an efficiency of 89.4%. That indicates an issue with membranes IMHO. I personally wouldn't let the rejection rate drop below 94%. I have an HF5 membrane and our current water pressure is 50 psi. The membrane is 3 1/2 years old and still performing as it did when new.

I will have to look in to this, also have a friend thats got a similar reading out of his RO (around 25-30) same tap TDS as mine and same water pressure. I change the pre filters every 3 months and are using about 1800-2000 litres per week. I doubt there would be any come back from Xline, where did you get your 40/40 RO from as I may look to change it.

 

[spruce]

Mine came from GAPS water. I have dug out the invoice but they just invoiced me for an HF5 - 4040 Ultra Low Pressure Membrane. If my memory serves me I recall looking for the same membranes as I had in my 450GPD r/o which were Axeons 150 GPD units.

I paid £189.00 + VAT + delivery in Sept 2012. Delivery also included a 4040 champ housing. The closest I can see is the Axeon HF5 Ultra Low Pressure Membrane at £207.00 + VAT and delivery. I wish I had made a note of the membrane make I bought before I fitted it.

I see that Xline do the Spectrum membrane which GAPS water also do. GAPS don't sell sub quality products. I don't know if you got a Spectrum membrane and I also don't know whether you got a bad one or not or if there is another problem.

I would remove the membrane from the housing and check the o Rings and outer seal (I think they call it a brine seal) as there could be a leak which is messing with your pure output.

Lubricating the o rings with a thin smear of silicone grease is recommended before reassembly.

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[Greener]

The other side of the coin is how big the di vessel is. The bigger it is the more resin it holds and the longer it will last.
The di vessel that we first used was the one that came with the 450gpd r/o. It was the last 10" housing that contained a di resin canister.

That was a waste of time.

You need to work out what the tds output is from your r/o. The higher that tds reading is the shorter the resin will last. For example, my output tds from my r/o is 2. The resin in the di vessel lasts a year. If my rejection rate was 6 then my resin would only last 4 months. So what appears to be a small increase in output tds can have a dramatic effect on the longevity of the resin.

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Hi @spruce /emoticons/smile.png when you had your 450gpd did you do anything to upgrade the 10" di canister?

 

[spruce]

Hi @spruce /emoticons/smile.png when you had your 450gpd did you do anything to upgrade the 10" di canister?

Yes, I added 2 more so ended up with 3. /emoticons/wink.png

Deionization Units : Deionization (DI) Polishing Unit 1400ml

That worked as our tap water tds is so low. I used to replace the resin every 3 months when I replaced the prefilters.

My 450gpd r/o was screwed onto the garage wall so I fitted the extra 2 resin housings underneath it. In winter I used to put a towel over the system and put a 100 watt light bulb in my mechanics lead light underneath it to keep it from freezing up. It worked like that for 7 winters without issue. I reasoned that having a di vessel would necessitate me finding another way to keep the system from freezing up.

In hindsight, I should have bought a 6 liter di vessel rather than waste money on 2 more housings with resin canisters. The good thing about have a low rejection rate of 2 is that we can clean windows with that and get away with it. So ensuring the resin was changed at exactly the right time wasn't the highest priority. I did used to check the output and would always change resin the moment the water in the van's tank went to 1ppm. It was easier to test the water in the vans tank than the ibc tank.

The only time when I started to get into trouble was when the membranes were at the end of their life. The rejection rate was increasing and I ended up replacing resin each time I filled the IBC tank.

Rather than replacing the membranes I bought all the components to put a bespoke 4040 together in a purpose made, thermostatically controlled heated cabinet. That took a little more time than I first thought.