Choosing a new battery

[Beccy]

Any tips? There's so many, where do I start?

I recharge it in the shed overnight, rather than keeping it topped up while out and about and I don't have a lot of space for a big battery. Maximum size I can fit is 22.5 x 19 cm. Any height is fine.

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[Beccy]

Anyone? /emoticons/smile.png

 

[SolarPanelCleaning]

Lead acid 12v leisure battery?

When we were off grid I had six of the cheapest I could find. Think they were numax, worked pretty good for the money. How many hours will it run a day? You'd get away with smaller lighter 40ah if you're not drawing a lot off it.

If you want quality, then Trojan batteries are known to be good, you'll pay for them though.

 

[spruce]

Beccy

Your max battery size is very small and I can't find a suitable leisure battery that size. I looked at Numax and Trojan. I also looked to see what Banner had. The problem is the length.

I think you have a car battery at the moment which is probably why you are having an issue with it. I couldn't read the model on the photo you supplied a while back.

I see Enduroline do a 50 amph battery which will fit into your space.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/50Ah-Leisure-Batteries-G440.html

 

[Beccy]

Yes, it is a car battery. That's what the ex used before we split and I took over the business. When I replaced the battery I didn't know any better so just bought the same again. I've learnt a lot through being on here! I'll post the spec of it tomorrow for you /emoticons/smile.png

I work fairly short days to fit around childcare whenever possible... Usually a full day for me is no more than 6.5 hours.

What about the small leisure type batteries that I used in my homemade trolley? Like the one in Jimmyboots' tutorial. I know they wouldn't last a whole day, but could I do something clever using two of them?

Edit to add link:

http:// http://www.batterymasters.co.uk/Product-Froogle_1377.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAjwmZWvBRCCqrDK_8atgBUSJACnib3lipULtypbuq3F_BSf-bE1xQff1TqCJvNTQYrQgo-XqBoCf8Tw_wcB

 

[adamangler]

Hi beccy

i use the exact battery you posted in the link, i have a 9ah one and a 12ah one i initially bought for a trolley system but have been using them as a van mount for about 6 months. They just about last me a day say 12 houses. not run out yet touch wood but getting a bigger one soon.

as for clever, i simply use them seperately swapping them over when one runs out. you could use them both at the same time wired together but that would make one big battery is effect which is not what u wanted

 

[SolarPanelCleaning]

Wire two batteries in parallel to keep the voltage at 12?

That's pos to pos and neg to neg.

 

[spruce]

Wire two batteries in parallel to keep the voltage at 12?That's pos to pos and neg to neg.

Space is the problem on Beccy's trailer and I don't think two of those in wired in parallel will still have enough capacity.

Yes, it is a car battery. That's what the ex used before we split and I took over the business. When I replaced the battery I didn't know any better so just bought the same again. I've learnt a lot through being on here! I'll post the spec of it tomorrow for you /emoticons/smile.png
I work fairly short days to fit around childcare whenever possible... Usually a full day for me is no more than 6.5 hours.

What about the small leisure type batteries that I used in my homemade trolley? Like the one in Jimmyboots' tutorial. I know they wouldn't last a whole day, but could I do something clever using two of them?

Edit to add link:

http://www.batterymasters.co.uk/Product-Froogle_1377.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAjwmZWvBRCCqrDK_8atgBUSJACnib3lipULtypbuq3F_BSf-bE1xQff1TqCJvNTQYrQgo-XqBoCf8Tw_wcB

We have a backpack on the van and it last's my son a full working day.

The reason why they work is that they use small pumps which consume a lot less current. But they wouldn't successfully (IMO although I'm sure lots will contradict this) pump water through a long hose on a reel like you have. A backpack is usually just a short hose coupled to the pole hose. This would be similar to a trolley.

Those pumps probably consume about half the current your pump on the trailer does.

The link you posted is for a 9 amph battery. Your pump will draw about 4 to 4.5 amps an hour so that battery would be completely flat after 2 pump working hours. On residential we estimate that our pumps run for around 50% of the time, probably a little less. On commercial we work on about 85 - 90% working per hour.

These are based on the flow rate we use (for me 2 liters a minute), how much water we have to put back into the tank at night to refill and how long we worked for that day.

 

[SolarPanelCleaning]

Guess you could ring up battery megastore and ask what's available with those dimensions? Don't forget to check God damage if couriered. I'd have a couple arrive split.

 

[Beccy]

Thanks guys. This is the spec of my current battery:

I'm still failing to understand something though (from this thread and my pump controller thread)...

I get that the capacity of my battery could be shot and if that was the case then after a certain (smaller than usual) amount of work it would stop working, but surely at that point the multimeter would be agreeing with the pump controller that the battery is flat? The multimeter and magic eye thingy on the battery both say that the battery is fully charged at the same time that the system stops working.

 

[adamangler]

Beccy without knowing why your multimeter still reads 12v when it fails, the simple explanation is a car battery is designed to provide starting power amperage for a car and not designed to give off a steady flow for a longer period. the construction of it is such that it will degrade quickly if you run it flat then charge it.

So basically a car battery will be knackered quick the way you are using it and you need a leisure battery

still not sure why you only have space for a small battery? is it for a trolley?

 

[Beccy]

I totally understand that a car battery is not ideal, and the reasons why. My point about the multimeter is that because the multimeter says the battery is giving out 12.75 volts, at the same time as my pump controller says it's giving out 10 volts or sometimes even less, I'm not totally convinced that the problem is the battery. It seems much more likely to me that the controller is somehow not receiving all the power that the battery is putting out, than the multimeter reading current that doesn't exist! So I've ordered some of the battery clamps that spruce recommended and I'm going to rewire the whole lot on my next free day to try and eliminate any dodgy connections.

The reason I'm short of space is that I work from a bike trailer.

 

[adamangler]

Sounds to me like you just need to investigate what the problem is then via process of elimination.

bypass the controller and see what happens for a start

 

[Diwrnach]

Electrical problems especially intermittent are a nightmare to try and diagnose over the net, hard enough in person, shame you are so far away otherwise I would come and have a look (electrician) ,all the advice above is sound, go over all the connections and check if any are rusty/furred up, give them a rub with sand paper, same with battery connection etc.

 

[Diwrnach]

Does the controller update voltage live? it may remember the voltage? if that is the case it may sag while you are using it which makes it cut out and shows a low voltage and then when you stop using it and put a meter across the battery it shows 12v?

Just an idea.

 

[spruce]

Sounds to me like you just need to investigate what the problem is then via process of elimination.
bypass the controller and see what happens for a start

Beccy,

I think @adamangler has made a good suggestion. Try the system without the controller by by-passing it. A cheap on/off switch will give you better control. Sorry you will use a lot of water, but if you try it at the end of the day and clean your own windows, then you will probably get a better idea if its the controller or battery.

My initially response was to get shot of those clamps as I felt this was a prime source of resistance and voltage drop which would affect your controller.

Thanks for the photo. Our local Halfords has a small workshop nearby where they charge an exorbitant price to charge a headlight bulb, fit a new car radio, etc. I think this is a service all Halfords offer. I would ask them to do a load test on your battery.

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This will give you an idea of what a load tester is. The first battery he tested was OK but the second wasn't. On the second you can see how fast the voltage of the battery dropped under load, but also how quickly is recovered when the load was switched off.

 

[Beccy]

Aha, brilliant, this is what I wasn't understanding! I didn't realise it could go effectively flat under load and then spring back up again. That makes the whole idea of the battery being the problem suddenly seem feasible! Thanks guys!

I might see if anyone local has a load tester.... The nearest town is an hour away so a trip to Halfords isn't a quick fix. I've ordered battery clamps too so I'll take everything apart and check all the connections when they arrive /emoticons/smile.png

 

[Diwrnach]

Yeah voltage sag, duff battery sags more.