Roofs

[rcproperty]

no even that becomes void to as you haven't protected yourself fully! its like a loop hole, if they can use it to get out of paying they will!

I take it you have not gone on any training at all then?

 

[armagh27]

in northern ireland u need a construction skills & maintanance card to do roof work which i have but dont do roofs scary stuff lol

 

[nearlyclean]

Pick up loads of work off Trad walking on tiles and not realising they've broken them, New customers ring up and ask do need to stand on my bay window to clean the windows as fed up of keeping getting it repaired.Have a roofer/builder who passes my number on to his customers. When I was trad slip off a roof a few times and my ladder slipped and stuck up there for hour before someone came along. if you can try to do them with a pole off your ladder against the gutter/fascia.

 

[GMcleaning]

haha, thats not accurate at all, i know a bit about insurance and i can quite confidently state your wrong on the 'loophole'.

and training? i trained as a window cleaner, actually cleaning windows for experienced window cleaners for 3 years before i set up on my own, doing 400 windows a day, every day, add to that the 12 years of ladder experience and roofing experience prior to window cleaning coupled with the fact im not a complete idiot who cant work at height safely using common sense! i think iv had training mate

 

[Dodger]

haha, thats not accurate at all, i know a bit about insurance and i can quite confidently state your wrong on the 'loophole'.

and training? i trained as a window cleaner, actually cleaning windows for experienced window cleaners for 3 years before i set up on my own, doing 400 windows a day, every day, add to that the 12 years of ladder experience and roofing experience prior to window cleaning coupled with the fact im not a complete idiot who cant work at height safely using common sense! i think iv had training mate

LOL had to poke my nose in, sounds like you have more experience and training than the people doing the instructing.

 

[GMcleaning]

lol, im not saying im an authority, far from it, but im confident im working safely from my experience.

it makes me die that there are people out there 'instructing' at all, the best training comes from on the job experience, not some bloke in a suit and a hard hat rubber stamping everyone in the class simply because theyve paid the money and bothered to turn up for a 1day seminar!

a good example is driving, just because you passed your test, doesnt mean you can drive, it takes experience on the road, its the same thing

 

[rcproperty]

that is all true, experience is the best way to learn, but like a car for the insurance to be valid you have to pass the test and hold a licence!! for an everyday window cleaner its fine until anything happens! but if your are a company that deals with £400 - £600 single contracts and council contracts you need all the right paper work to prove that you can do it, just like the IPAF card, cradle training, rope access and how to use a fail arrest system.

as for a one day seminar thats far from it, its done over 4 months and you come out with a QCF City & Guilds Window Cleaning Level 1&2,

 

[GMcleaning]

unless your in scotland you dont need a license, or a city and guilds to get valid public liabilty insurance, note the word 'valid', i know window cleaners that have claimed on their insurance and they paid out fine.

as for big contracts, councils, rope access, thats not what we were talking about, your just moving the goalposts on what you originally said.

 

[Gmeister]

QCF City & Guilds Window Cleaning Level 1&2

WTF I had no idea such course exists! lol

 

[rcproperty]

i didnt say u need any thing to get pubic liabilty, joe blogs can get it!! i just used those as another example of what you need training for.

not being funny gmcleaning when you know what you are taking about then comment, I'm just saying what I know from finding things out on how to do things the proper way,

QCF City & Guilds Window Cleaning Level 1&2

WTF I had no idea such course exists! lol

just show what people really know whats happening in there trade! lol

 

[GMcleaning]

i didnt say u need any thing to get pubic liabilty, joe blogs can get it!! i just used those as another example of what you need training for.

not being funny gmcleaning when you know what you are taking about then comment, I'm just saying what I know from finding things out on how to do things the proper way,

just show what people really know whats happening in there trade! lol

actually you did, you said if your not licensed or certificated then your public liabilty insurance would be void, you were wrong, get over it.

you are being funny, i know exactly what im talking about so i will comment,(it is a forum afterall), and im just saying what i know from actually doing things the right way.

dont get upset because you got it wrong, you dont have to backtrack and get defensive

 

[rcproperty]

thats only if you had a claim that went to court and a judge would rule everything voild coz you didnt have the right training and can prove that the way you did things is right,

im not being funny, so if you do things the right way all the time, i guess u have issued MS&RA form to each customer then??

Im not upset at all and I know I havent got it wrong.

 

[GMcleaning]

no, im not issuing ms&ra forms to my customers, i guess that means im not doing things properly?lol

honestly some people on here make me laugh, iv been cleaning windows for quite a while, i gained my experience in the industry, i run my own,(successful) window cleaning company, i pay tax, ni, public liability, etc, so dont tell me i dont know what im doing or what im talking about, just because i havent got a mickey mouse qualification from a company thats not even an authority on window cleaning, there is no regulatory body that requires me to be certified or licensed, and no public liability claim would be void regardless as to wether it went to court or not, please dont try and educate me on the laws of the land, my mrs is a lawyer and i get enough of that at home.

having qualifications in window cleaning does not make you better than someone who doesnt, nor does it imply that your are any safer in your work practice, so you can quote as many forms/regulations/hse scripts as you like.

 

[rcproperty]

If you not issuing those then no you not doing it properly!

Lol actually the company does have the authority to issue the quailfication and is a uk recconised place!

oh mr high horse, do try and come down sometime!

IF you mrs is a lawer then you should know better! lol

im not sayin that any one is better than anyone else or anything like that, just trying to let people know that how is is to run a BIG company and what I have to do to comply with things, At then end of it all this red tape thats about now adays is a big joke to what ever your trade is! were you get up, clean windows, get home fill your van up, if ur wfp, do some account work etc. I have to do a lot more paper work and things to cover myself in everything I do.

 

[GMcleaning]

haha, am i not? according to who, there is no regulatory body or recognised industry authority?

anyone else on here issued these to their customers? if not your not doing things properly!lol

im not saying YOU dont have to have these quals to satisfy YOUR customers/contracts but that doesnt mean I need them for anything, if your a big company, employing loads of people, then yes, but this whole discussion wasnt based on the those factors was it?

and IF? lol, she got a 2.1 law degree at brunel university, then done her lbc and training placement and is now a practicing lawyer, theres no IF about it, and i do know better

 

[rcproperty]

again its just one of those things that the general window cleaner over looks and doesnt know about!

those forms are another way to prove that you have done everything you can to cover your own backside if anything does happen.

the discussion was about charging more for climbing on roofs, and all i said was :-

with the course im doing at the minute, working off a ladder without the proper training and cetificates is breaking the HSE and stepping onto the roofs and working on them, is a big no to the HSE working at height regs!

and you came in like you was someone off the 'jeremy kyle' so i was just saying it from my point of view and what training I had to do for my company to meet and cover all legal outcome, or putting it another way, making sure that its down on paper to cover my backside in case the poo hits the fan for some reason.

 

[GMcleaning]

lol, not quite, the post of yours that you just quoted was the issue, because you dont need to have training or certificates to work off a ladder and be compliant with health and saftey regs, you saying that you do need them is wrong, so i commented so that others would see this inaccuracy.

you have obviously decided your way is right and everyone doing it differently,(which i would guess is most people), are wrong, and thats fine, everyones en***led to there OPINION.

i guess we should just agree to disagree on this one as i dont think we'll get anywhere discussing it any further

 

[rcproperty]

that is regarding to me and my company, not to all.

The Regulations do not ban the use of ladders. Ladders can be used for low-risk, short-duration work and where a risk assessment shows that other more suitable work equipment is not appropriate because of the location.

straight from the site so that everyone can see.

its not my way its the way that I have to work. like i say for the everyday window cleaner its fine, till something major happen, then things are looked at.

i know everyone is en***led to there own opinion, but there is a way of putting things, and if it was the other way round all i would ask you is more details about it and go oh right i didnt know that, like the other guy did!

 

[GMcleaning]

lol, i still disagree, a risk assesment can be a simple on the spot risk assesment done by me, if i deem it is suitable, then it is. all im saying for everyone to see is that they do not NEED certification in order to work safely and to hse regulations. as long as you are straight with your insurance company and you work safely then you will be covered in the event of an accident and they will pay out.

 

[rcproperty]

any risk assesment has to be done on a point system and on paper, going through all hazzards present, then you have to use a table and rate it, then if it is any more than 4 you have to state what you are going to do to bring that number down to a safe out come.

this is a real basic one that should be used as a minimum, I use a table that is 5 by 5!

ok, worst case sanrio, your up a lader, for some reason you droped your squeegee and it hits customer on head and kills them.

a judge will ask to see any risk assesment form, they will look at if you have working at height training, even tho its not law, and go to some other stuff too,

if you have no risk assesment sayin about the possible dangers and what you did to over come them, then the fault is down to you and can cause insurances not to pay out coz you didnt do things right, like use a Lanyard to stop any tools fall to the floor!

its all down to this red tape that people live by now a days,

 

[rcproperty]

and you think its bad for the window cleaners that use ladders, in some areas its worse for us wfp ones!

if i work in town centre with my 42ft pole cleaning windows, and theres people about, I'm ment to rope of an area of 45ft around me just in case my pole falls and hits someone, or in one case they used was a window cleaner cleaning a 2nd story window, to comply with the risk assesment on that one window in a town centre, he couldnt use his pole, as there was a bus route there, and people walking by alll the time, so to close of an area around him was impossible. what he was ment to do was get someone with training and use a portable platform that lifted him upto the window and cleaning it by hand! now that is a joke when we have to do things like that, but thats what the safest way to do it is! all because of this red tape!