Off the tools owners

[Spit & polish]

Just wondered how many on here are off the tools and just manage the work and people

 

[Part Timer]

Me in 2 1/2 years if it all goes to plan. Will let you know what you want to know then.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I would only do it if I had a contract say with the NHS. Everyone I know up here with a NHS contract never go bust and have a constant smile on their face every 3 months when the cheque arrives. ?

 

[Pjj]

For me I like being hands on doing the work ,I hate office work so would never go that route ,my wife does the day to day paperwork, I do the quotes and leasing with customers, we find this works well .

 

[JFA]

I’ve always been off the tools 2yrs now this time

then in the past 10yrs ago was for x4 years and then sold round

family member basically is a window cleaner recently life circumstances changed so I bought a couple rounds over the last 2yrs

mainly domestic 60/40 wfp over trad

We have a 500l twin system for possible growth

i manage the work via SmartRound 

most payments via bacs, some GoCardless, cash and card

I create daily job sheets for him, load/setup van night before, text all customers 

then he follows job sheet, in evening I process and do again for next day

all calls come to me, I book quotes in with worker or sometimes myself.

I decided we split 60/40 profits and he uses vehicle for own use 

I work full time in a completely different industry, with the idea of growing the business to possibly migrate over.

however before this I’m looking to add another full time staff, which currently there is not enough work to do so.

Adding some soft washing over the next few weeks and looking at CHAS accreditation plus other safe contractor bits so we can take on more commercial works.

which I am in communication with a few local franchises of national companies to do so.

Basically the worker has gone from £12ph working as an employed window cleaner to now avg £22ph 

working this way with myself, was to initially help him out due to the change in his circumstances but now it seems to be working and we’re growing steadily through recommendations alone.

although I do intend on ramping things up over the next few months and taking on another staff member

I’m yet to decide if they will come on % wage or hourly rate? 
the % just makes it easier to manage a single staff member who works unsupervised 

As the incentive is there to work hard not just see down the clock.

It’s really in the last two months we’ve stepped it up when I bought the second round first 20 odd months was just helping out the worker.

John

 

[Dave B]

4 years when I'm 50 is the plan.

If I don't keep losing my workers lol.

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Just wondered how many on here are off the tools and just manage the work and people

Born into family of hard workers

Come rain or shine I'm out there being the best I can, wouldn't change it for the world

 

[Spit & polish]

@Apw1210think if the stress isn't too much for a person been hands off is good, as say you have an accident the business can run and provide for your family.

But graft as hard as you like, just nice to have the choice to roll up the sleeves or not.

 

[Deleted member 7446]

@Apw1210think if the stress isn't too much for a person been hands off is good, as say you have an accident the business can run and provide for your family.

But graft as hard as you like, just nice to have the choice to roll up the sleeves or not.

I've had a non work related accident and it nearly finished me off,

I could stop work tomorrow but I choose to work as I love productivity, mindfulness and staying alive

 

[Spit & polish]

Glad you have the option the amount of people i have seen working in pain as they have no choice is sad, so working as hard as possible to get to a stage where i dont physically need to work (apart from by choice). 

 

[Dave B]

I have plans in action at the moment.

I will be on the tools less very soon and then less and less.

 

[PavelMatis]

Thanks for helping solve this task.

 

[Teaboy]

Dont think as an owner your ever off the tools, as there will always be a time you have to go out or chip in,

I dont do 'productive' work every day and are as hands off as I feel I can be,

have been for 5 years Im 36 now will grow steady until I retire,

you just need the right mix of work

 

[PavelMatis]

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[scottish cleaning service]

I had a nugget on the phone today from Manchester I guess. He wanted to take over my website and make it super duper. I told him I get my work from Checkatrade and I'm working 7 days a week and don't want more work. He didn't seem to understand and I couldn't get him off the phone. Ended up hanging up and blocking his number. My plan of action is to say nothing and hang up and block the number. I believe websites are old hat and the new way is through Trustatrader or Checkatrader websites and the website builders are chasing little work that's out there, that's my opinion fwiw.

 

[laddergarder]

I'd have to double my prices, or double my work rate to be off the tools. It doesn't make sense economically for me.

Self employed on your own, I can make 25-30k, 5k expenses, less taxes. Its not terrible.

Then try taking off vat, more time to manage staff, more customers etc infrastructure costs.

Bear in mind staff will never work as hard as a business owner or care as much.

Let's say your staff do 30k each, and your overheads are 4k per employee, minimum wage say 17k per year salary.

30k 

- 6k vat

-4k costs

-17k wages

That's 3k left, you still have to pay your taxes, replaced vans equipment etc.

Oh and you haven't paid yourself for all the training, marketing, organising vans, equipment, uniforms, answer phone calls emails, running wages, doing cash ups, bankings, dealing with pensions, garages, customer complaints, staffing issues etc.

I'd need to each guy to make 40k each before I could really scale things, and if he can do that with a van and readily available equipment, why would he work for me for minimum wage ?

Getting customers is not that hard, and its still probably one of the lowest cost business to start on your own.

 

[Deleted member 257]

I'd have to double my prices, or double my work rate to be off the tools. It doesn't make sense economically for me.

Self employed on your own, I can make 25-30k, 5k expenses, less taxes. Its not terrible.

Then try taking off vat, more time to manage staff, more customers etc infrastructure costs.

Bear in mind staff will never work as hard as a business owner or care as much.

Let's say your staff do 30k each, and your overheads are 4k per employee, minimum wage say 17k per year salary.

30k 

- 6k vat

-4k costs

-17k wages

That's 3k left, you still have to pay your taxes, replaced vans equipment etc.

Oh and you haven't paid yourself for all the training, marketing, organising vans, equipment, uniforms, answer phone calls emails, running wages, doing cash ups, bankings, dealing with pensions, garages, customer complaints, staffing issues etc.

I'd need to each guy to make 40k each before I could really scale things, and if he can do that with a van and readily available equipment, why would he work for me for minimum wage ?

Getting customers is not that hard, and its still probably one of the lowest cost business to start on your own.

Except. if you had 2 guys doing just a little more and being paid a little more, say £35k you'd turn over £70k and be comfortably below the vat threshold.

£70k

-8k costs

-40k wages

thats £22k left, which is a similar amount to what you say you are earning alone, without having to do the physical work so you could continue earning despite injury/age/etc. Your employees make a 'not terrible' wage without having to build up the business, manage customers, handle self-assessment etc.

 

[laddergarder]

Except. if you had 2 guys doing just a little more and being paid a little more, say £35k you'd turn over £70k and be comfortably below the vat threshold.

£70k

-8k costs

-40k wages

thats £22k left, which is a similar amount to what you say you are earning alone, without having to do the physical work so you could continue earning despite injury/age/etc. Your employees make a 'not terrible' wage without having to build up the business, manage customers, handle self-assessment etc.

They have said they plan not to increase the vat threshold, so how long before increased wages and running cost push you over that threshold.

Plus thats based on charging your customers 35k for each employees work, you would still be undercut by sole traders who don't have to account for the owners wages.

I imagine most on here are small sole traders with one or two employees at most, if the economics worked, we would mostly all be off the tools ? with teams working for us doing the graft.

 

[Deleted member 257]

They have said they plan not to increase the vat threshold, so how long before increased wages and running cost push you over that threshold.

Plus thats based on charging your customers 35k for each employees work, you would still be undercut by sole traders who don't have to account for the owners wages.

You’d push on for a 3rd employee, then register on flat rate and pay 12% vat, your ‘profit’ would be maybe £1200 down. 
 

Im not saying charge higher prices, but that an employee that only has to worry about cleaning could likely manage another £20 a day, over a sole trader that has the rest of the business to manage. 

 

[laddergarder]

You’d push on for a 3rd employee, then register on flat rate and pay 12% vat, your ‘profit’ would be maybe £1200 down. 
 

Im not saying charge higher prices, but that an employee that only has to worry about cleaning could likely manage another £20 a day, over a sole trader that has the rest of the business to manage. 

12% of the vat threshold is over 10k

For a limited cost trader on the flat rate scheme it would be 16.5% of the gross sales, and would be much the same as paying 20% on the net which is the normal standard rate.

 

[Deleted member 257]

12% of the vat threshold is over 10k

For a limited cost trader on the flat rate scheme it would be 16.5% of the gross sales, and would be much the same as paying 20% on the net which is the normal standard rate.

I wasn’t saying that 12% was only £1200, but that you’d be left with £20,800 not £22,000.

but yeah pretty miserable if you can only hope to turn over £30k.