Problems With Flow Rate Liquid Logic V Series

Discussion in 'Water Fed Pole Cleaning' started by essex boy, Feb 24, 2013.

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  1. essex boy

    essex boy Active Member
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    Please help....

    I have a Liquid Logig V Series (LLV) controller that is 6 months old. It provides 2 TDS readings at different points of the RO process, Car battery and auxillery battery voltage readings, usual calibration and flow rates and does this for two seperate programmable users. It all works fine or did!!! it also has a built in split relay.

    I never got round to wiring up the split relay charger that is built into the LLV so wired it up according to the diagram. Power from LLV direct to car battery with a 10amp fuse and the negative van battery to negative auxillery battery terminal to complete the circuit. When I drive the van battery automatically goes over 13V and the charge is sent to the auxillary battery and when the van ignition is off and goes below 13V the charge stops and the system only draws from the vehicle battery.

    I did this and everything showed it was working fine and did.

    Despite this I do still put an overight smart battery charger on the auxillary battery in case I do not cover enough miles to charge through the relay and yesterday my auxillary battery showed 100% charge.

    I went to work and whilst my pole was extended i noticed the flow died for a second then came back. This happended 3 or 4 times in the day. It was nothing like when a battery is flat as the flow starts to "pulse" until the battery depletes as this happended once then was fine for a few hours then did it again,

    I looked at the LLV display which showed car battery voltage 12.8V which is fine and the auxillary battery at 12.5V which is also fine. I noticed when I turned the pump on and the water began to flow the LLV dispaly showed the auxillery battery voltage went down to 11.4V which is low, but then again this may be normal when the pump is running I don't know because I have never noticed before.

    I decided to disconnect the split relay wiring from the van battery in case there was a drain on the auxillery but it made no difference.

    I tried my second LL controller and pump which is a more basic version. This also showed a good charge on the auxillery battery bit again when I turned the second pump on the battery voltage went down to 11.4V

    so, after all that waffle my question is...

    Does anyone know what can cause the flow to die very occassionally when the battery is well charged and does the battery voltage show a much lowerbreading when the pump is on?

    Also, do Shureflo 100psi pumps take a while to loosen up?

    I went to use my new second pump and set the rate at the same speed but the water spray was a a fair bit weaker, is that just because it is a brand new pump?

    I would be grateful for any help
     
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  2. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member
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    What rating is your 2nd battery?
     
  3. essex boy

    essex boy Active Member
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    not sure, i will have a look. its huge, a sealed 120amp leisure battery
     
  4. bluemonkey

    bluemonkey Guru
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    so, let me get this straight, you got 1 battery and when you switch both pumps on the vots drop to 11.4 and the flow is ****, so you got to pumps running from 1 battery
     
  5. Smurf

    Smurf Banned
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    Sounds to me you might have air in the system as if the LL has a dead end stop built in will cause the pump to keep stopping and water flow will be pulsing and/or very weak.

    Take off the hose reel and run the pump flat out to get rid of any air untill you get a constant good flow. Then do the same when you recconect the hose then see if it makes any difference. ;)
     
  6. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    With the split charger relay connected up and the engine running, does the pump still pulse? (I'm not sure if this controller will allow battery charging and running the pump at the same time though.)

    If this works then there is a faulty battery or connection problem from the battery to the controller (battery terminal or fuse holder being the most suspect).

    If you have one of these controllers that won't let you charge the battery and run the pump at the same time, I would disconnect the SCR wire from the controller. I would then start the van and then connect the wire up to the aux battery's + terminal. Now the controller will run the pump and the alternator will charge your battery.

    If the pump stops pulsing you will be 90% sure that the battery isn't holding a charge (no capacity even although it shows as fully charged on the battery charger.)

    Once you have tried this then switch the engine off and disconnect the wire to the aux battery. Please do not restart the engine with this wire connected - you will blow the fuse if you do on the van's battery side.

    Most controllers come with a safety cutout set at around 11.0v so if the battery drops below that, the controller will cut the power and prevent a good undercharged battery from being damaged. Spring controllers have recently changed their low voltage setting down from 11v to 10.5v. Varistream have had theirs set at 10.4v for a long time.

    Added: As both controllers are doing the same thing I would focus on the battery as the fault - we had the same thing a couple of years ago and replacing the battery solved the problem. We ran the van's engine on site so we could finish the job.

    As controllers are made with 'cheap' components I doubt you will get 2 that will perform exactly the same. I would see no problem with the one controller performing differently to the other using the same pump or 2 of the same controllers running 2 identical Shurflo pumps for that matter.
     
  7. Smurf

    Smurf Banned
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    Alex Gardiner in logged on so if sees this thread might be able to resolve your issue ;)

    If not then phone and speak with him on Monday.
     
  8. Smurf

    Smurf Banned
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    Sorry Alex has now logged off :huh:
     
  9. Alex Gardiner

    Alex Gardiner Forum Addict
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    Computer crashed - so technically logged in but actually not online!

    It is completely normal for the battery voltage to drop when the pump is drawing power from the battery - if the voltage drops too low, perhaps because of poor wiring or an older battery then this will cause the low voltage protection circuitry on the controller to kick in momentarily to protect the battery - this may be what is happening to you when it momentarily cuts out.

    Are you sure that your second Shurflo pump is the same model as the first one; there are so many different model Shurflo pumps that it can be difficult to get the same one twice sometimes.
     
  10. essex boy

    essex boy Active Member
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    Okay, firstly thank you to everyone for their help.

    I ran it today on 3 jobs and it pulse once so that tells me it is doubtful it is the battery. Both batteries charge fine and both show around 12.9 v fully charged on both controllers.

    I only run one pump but have two fitted but even if I ran two pumps one good battery is easily sufficient I would think.

    As Alex has kindly confirmed that the voltage on the aux battery will drop a fair amount when the pumps are in t use this is normal too.

    My reading When The pump is running is around 11.4v but it is conceivable that the voltage is very occasionally going Tbelow the 11v cut off.

    I say this because I run my calibration at 40 as this suits me BUT I run my flow at 65 to 70 as I use Gardiner super lite fan jets and I never seem to get a proper fan jet unless I turn the flow rate up. I never used to have this problem with the old white ones but do now.

    I decided to run my pole as a test just on an old 10 metre hose and noticed that the fanjets worked on a flow of 35 to 40! Whilst I appreciate a 100m hose will require a great deal more pressure I reckon I shouldn't have to double my flow rate to achieve the same result?

    So, I wil check my wiring as I have a habit of wrapping wires round terminals because I cannot be bothered to go and get the correct connections and will check my hose connections.

    I can only conclude that something between my port connections and the start of my pole hose (I.e. within hose) is causing enough pressure that the voltage is dropping below 11v.

    No doubt I am wrong but everything else appears fine
     
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