genarator

[tench0771]

im guna be geting a genarator this year as geting fed up with not having no power on some jobs i have vacume 2400w numitic  would a 5kw genarator power it ? were is the best place to order one these are the ones ive been looking at 

sgs genarators  stephill 6.5 kva honda gx390         and the 5 kvw honda gx270

aquafed stephill one 5 kw loncin  lc6500d             and the  loncin  6kw lc8000d

cant deside wich one to go for if the smaller 5kw ones will power my vacume then im happy to pay less but in time if the vacume ever broke ide maby replace for a 3000w one sp the genarator has to be able to power a 3000w vac

 

[Part Timer]

Well whoever can explain that to you can explain this to me. I had a 6.5HP 2.8KVa generator that easily ran my 3600w gutter vac, it stopped working, engine fine but nothing happened when I plugged electrics in. Rang around and people were saying £100+ to fix it. As it's nearly 10 yrs old I decided to price up a new one. Same company make a 7HP 3KVa generator and sells them for £290 so I bought one. Tried it yesterday and it struggles badly when I turn the third motor on. So I've bought a more powerful generator that isn't as powerful  as it's smaller brother  :banghead3:

 

[THL4KEL]

Just sold my gen rarely used it, customers were ok about leaving a lead out I could hook onto when there not ther.

 

[tench0771]

yes i usly use cusrerds lecky  but desided to get the genny as not every one is in ect pluss it will be used for some flood lights on a commercial i do when its to dark to see  :1f602:   i need to spend some cash any way this year 

 

[tench0771]

@spruce any chance i could pick your brain m8 as you seem very knologable on these sort of things  :1f609:

 

[spruce]

@spruce any chance i could pick your brain m8 as you seem very knologable on these sort of things  :1f609:

I can't say am very knowledgeable about this tbh @tench0771

When I worked at Bosch we sold 2 generators, a 2.4kva for small power tools and 5.5kva for larger ones such as the 2300 watt 9" angle grinder which happened to be the most power hungry power tool we sold in those days.

The generator module also came from a quality manufacturer. To ensure that each generator complied with its stated output it was very probable that actually the generator was built to a higher kva and downrated on the label. At the time there was no law against that. A manufacturer on a production line couldn't guarantee each generator was exactly 5.5kva without testing and certificating each unit built. So in those days genuine honest manufacturers built in a margin for error.

A 5.5kva generator was also heavy. We mainly sold these into the construction industry and moving them around on site (no wheels) was a 2 man job. The gubbins was in a strong steel frame - you have no idea how they treat equipment on South African building sites.

One of the gutter vac suppliers says that they can run their 1400watt vacuum motor on a 2.0kva generator. This is interesting as motors have a higher starting current. (Some new power tools and appliances have a soft start built in to reduce the initial power surge at start up.)

According to the calculator a starting current for a vacuum cleaner motor can be 3 times the running current.

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/help-advice/which-generator-should-i-order/

Another calculator says 2.5 to 3 times. But I wouldn't rule out what that supplier says as a load of rubbish. I have a 2200 watt Bosch angle grinder which is about 30 years old. 2200 watt is 10amps. On occassion it trips my 15amp circuit breaker in the garage on starting, but not often. Now 15 amps is 3300 watts so the starting current required to start that grinder isn't 2.5 to 3 times the running current. (I'm also allowing for a time lag through the circuit breaker. Not all circuit breakers are identical and some might be slightly more sensitive than others, even from the same production line.) If my grinder did draw 2.5 times its running wattage on startup then it would trip the circuit breaker every time.

I don't recall a starting current listed on the specs of my cleaner but I will have a look later. So according to that I would need a much bigger gen set to run my gutter vac than a 2.0kva.

I would like to be self sufficient and have my own generator, but gutter clearing isn't my core business. I do it begrudgingly for existing customers. I bought the gutter vac for the safety aspect but don't want to pour vast sums into the service - I just don't fancy falling off ladders doing a gutter clean. We have still had to use ladders to remove the down pipes on a couple of customers houses recently as they were fully blocked and had gardens growing out of them.

So I would probably hire a generator to ensure that the size I was buying did actually work for me. I would take the vacuum unit with me and let the hire company size the gen set for me to hire. If that worked fine I would then buy my own from a reputable supplier.

Just to further complicate matters; how do I know that my vacuum cleaner motor is a 1500 watt?  Maybe its a higher wattage motor down rated on the label. In my old Bosch days they did that all the time. (There was no law back then making it illegal to under rate a spec - it was illegal to manufacturer a product with an advertised 800 watt motor that was only 600 watt obviously.)

A new Bosch drilling machine was lauched stating it had a 500 watt motor even although it was manufacturered as a 750 watt motor. Further down the sales line it was then relaunched and promoted with a more powerful 550 watt motor and then later as a 650 watt drill. But the part numbers for the armature, brushes and field coils were the same. The only thing that changed was the label and perhaps some minor cosmetic changes.(The rear handle may have been given a soft absorbant material to absorb vibration which cost a couple of Phennig in those days before the Euro.)

Edited.

My Vacuum cleaner motor doesn't have a starting current on the label. I have emailed the supplier and asked them.

.

 

[spruce]

Well whoever can explain that to you can explain this to me. I had a 6.5HP 2.8KVa generator that easily ran my 3600w gutter vac, it stopped working, engine fine but nothing happened when I plugged electrics in. Rang around and people were saying £100+ to fix it. As it's nearly 10 yrs old I decided to price up a new one. Same company make a 7HP 3KVa generator and sells them for £290 so I bought one. Tried it yesterday and it struggles badly when I turn the third motor on. So I've bought a more powerful generator that isn't as powerful  as it's smaller brother  :banghead3:

I haven't an answer for this one @Part Timer

The quality of product has fallen dramatically since China became the manufacturing hub of the world.

Just because its the same supplier doesn't mean the components are supplied from the same manufacturer from 10 years back.

We have a 4hp Briggs and Stratton, USA manufactured petrol engine on our lawn mower. I bought the lawn mower new in 1983 and it gets a regular oil change, had 2 spark plugs and 1 airfilter in that time. Its also had 4 replacement blades in its life time. Looking at the engine it looks antique but it still works well and never been opened.

We were sick of my son borrowing it to cut his grass as well, (they are quick to borrow and slow to return) so we ordered a similar lawn mower as a present for them with a 4hp Briggs and Stratton motor. I was actually quite shocked at what I saw when we opened the box.

The motor works fine, made in China, but just looks so cheap. If it didn't have the B&S name on it I wouldn't have believed it.

One of the big issues is that vacuum cleaner motors fail. Some fail immediately and others take their time. Cooling is one of the biggest problems facing manufacturers. The smaller houshold units rely on the air being sucked up the suction tube, through the dustbag, and into the motor to cool it. If the dirt bag is full then the air available for cooling is restricted. As the motor is working harder sucking through a full dirt bag it heats up quicker. Bigger machines have a separate coiling circuit. But a faulty motor can draw a much higher current and seem to be running correctly before it decides to fail completely. Once a motor has suffered overheating the windings seem to change characteristics even although it still works.

.

 

[Part Timer]

I haven't an answer for this one @Part Timer

The quality of product has fallen dramatically since China became the manufacturing hub of the world.

Just because its the same supplier doesn't mean the components are supplied from the same manufacturer from 10 years back.

We have a 4hp Briggs and Stratton, USA manufactured petrol engine on our lawn mower. I bought the lawn mower new in 1983 and it gets a regular oil change, had 2 spark plugs and 1 airfilter in that time. Its also had 4 replacement blades in its life time. Looking at the engine it looks antique but it still works well and never been opened.

We were sick of my son borrowing it to cut his grass as well, (they are quick to borrow and slow to return) so we ordered a similar lawn mower as a present for them with a 4hp Briggs and Stratton motor. I was actually quite shocked at what I saw when we opened the box.

The motor works fine, made in China, but just looks so cheap. If it didn't have the B&S name on it I wouldn't have believed it.

One of the big issues is that vacuum cleaner motors fail. Some fail immediately and others take their time. Cooling is one of the biggest problems facing manufacturers. The smaller houshold units rely on the air being sucked up the suction tube, through the dustbag, and into the motor to cool it. If the dirt bag is full then the air available for cooling is restricted. As the motor is working harder sucking through a full dirt bag it heats up quicker. Bigger machines have a separate coiling circuit. But a faulty motor can draw a much higher current and seem to be running correctly before it decides to fail completely. Once a motor has suffered overheating the windings seem to change characteristics even although it still works.

.

:iagree:  Went down and swapped it for the one I had before, just tried it out and it doesn't run the gutter vac either. So I agree with what you say, the modern gear is  :1f4a9: And I now need to find someone to fix my old generator 

 

[PersilPete]

This is good info. Im about to buy a bigger genny now. I had no idea about start up current etc. Many thanks.

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