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Securing tanks

Messages
193
These pictures were taken with a 650 litre tank in, i now have a 500, post i can have really is 400 litres, but as i only drive a couple of miles from when i fill up i sometimes go up to 450 or thereabouts.

Its a DIY system im afraid

P1040848.jpg


I did have RO attached to it previous, but that is now in static location

P1040849.jpg


I love the caddy, loads of custys say it doesnt look like a van, it looks too smart! I used to get about 50mpg before i put these bigger wheels on, it goes well, pulls more then enough, even in top gear, that was before i had it, erm, altered /emoticons/sad.png

Overall very pleased with it, the peugout expert can carry more, is bigger and has 3 seats up front, but this does me fine.



how much did that cost? looks smart.
Cost £360, so wasnt cheap, but they got the design together for me, covered up back windows and removed wiper and motor from back door, good quality vinyl on all sides, and stripe from front to back too.

Why is there a vw symbol on the bonnet just above the vw badge on the grill?.

Pretty eyecatching, but the lack of a phone number on the back is a big mistake surely?.
Not for the motorway driving i do :-/ If they want me they can google as window cleaning...and hopefully their road rage will have subsided by then lol.

I wanted a big VW symbol on bonnet, but decided on having it built onto the stripe in the end, just a styling thing, same as the LED side bars really! My wife wont let me put bull bars and spots on the front.... /emoticons/wink.png Perhaps a good thing!

 
B

badbusdriver

I dont mean to sound like your mother(!), but how is that tank fixed?, i can see straps, but what are they attatched to?. Personally, i wouldnt contemplate using an upright tank without a pretty serious frame (made to my own design) fixed to the van floor. Also, are you sure that is a 650l tank in the pics? (dimensions of which are 1250mm long x 575mm wide x 1010mm high), it doesnt look like one, in fact it looks like an upright version of the 500l tank i have in my connect.

 
Messages
193
yep mate those sizings are correct, it is a 650. I can only legally carry about 400 so have since downsized to a 500 litre upright. it's up against bulkhead, which when full, and with me and passenger slightly overloads front axle, but I only do a couple of miles once I've loaded water, so I can live with that.

thanks for concern, mum /emoticons/wink.png I've participated in many a heated discussion in the CIU forum over load restraints, I have 3 8 tonne restraints to the tiedown lashing points. not ideal, and wouldn't dream of it if tank wasn't up against the bulkhead, also the tank physically cannot go further forward due to narrowing of cab further forward (before I downsized that is!). I do most of my 70 miles a day travelling with between 50 and 200 litres water in.

I know I should get it bolted down proper, its on my to do list, but up until recently it was classed as a modification bolting to chassis (nuts, I know) and easier to get insurance without. things have changed now, and it's easier to insure with it bolted to chassis.

we could always start a new topic on this one /emoticons/wink.png

 
B

badbusdriver

"We could always start a new topic on this one" (securing tanks)

Hmm, Vito61 has tried that, twice, nobody seems that interested in safety with regards to their tank, at least not enough to contribute to the thread!.

No, i'm sure your straps are fine, but with them being fixed to the lashing points immediately in front of, and behind, the tank, and because it is an upright tank, the weight of the water could potentially 'lever' the lashing points right out of the floor (that is the basic principle of how a prybar works). You would be safer getting extra straps going to the lashing points right at the back.

 

bluemonkey

Well-known member
Messages
1,082
providing the straps are the right ones and the anchor points can take the weight, i can see the prob, as it is no different to carrying cargo

 
B

badbusdriver

I quite agree bluemonkey, but the question of whether or not the straps are up to the job was not my concern.

If using straps only to secure the tank, you need to make sure there are straps preventing forward and backward movement, whereas some just put a strap over from side to side and expect that to work, it wont!. In the event of coming to an abrupt stop due to an accident, a tank 'secured' this way, will simply slide out from under the straps!.

If using an upright tank it is very, very, important to make sure it is securely located, even more so than with a flat tank. With a flat tank, the danger is simply from breaking free from its mounting and 'sliding' in any direction (especially forward), but with an upright tank, there is that same danger, but also, the danger of it trying to flip forward or back due to the high centre of gravity. Flipping back, is not likely to have major consequences, unless it busts open the back doors and hits the car behind!. But if it were to go forward...., well, use your imagination!.

Also, some seem to think that if their van has a factory bulkhead they will be fine, not so!, a factory bulkhead is not going to stop a 350kg+ (probably even a 250) tank of water heading forward at high speed after breaking loose because of an accident.

Its your safety that is at stake here people, so you really should be putting plenty of thought into it!.

 
Messages
193
I agree, the straps are up to the job, I have 2 going over the top, and 1 going around it from the 2 middle fixings and around the front.

I've been told the lashing points should help restrain the maximum payload, in my case 825kg. however, I'm only using 2 of the 4 available, so not ideal. also pulling the strap right up is not the best as it's putting more pressure on tearing the lashing up and out, a 45 degree angle for the straps would be better.

obviously in an accident, a 500 litre full tank multiplies many a time if you hit a stationary, immovable object, or worse still, a large mass travelling in the opposite direction. and I wouldn't like to test a bulkhead if tank was positioned some feet away from it, as it takes far more resistance to stop a moving tank as it would to help restrain it before it's started moving and gaining momentum. yes, I've seen ionics and others crash videos, but they all have a load positioned some distance from the bulkhead, and with little or no restraint. I feel (hope) with a combination of the straps, and tank up tight against the bulkhead, that I will be ok. and in a head on accident that will be that bad, I will prob be killed anyway, tank or not.

I haven't seen what I would call a realistic test. we conducted a poll in CIU, and by far and away the majority of people had not heard of a death or injury due to a poorly restrained tank, I mean like 2 voted they'd known of someone, but they didn't say where or how. surely due to the amount of people who just use straps there would be more proven examples?

please note, I'm not saying it's not worth a proper chassis bolted cage, the more secure and safer the better. but you could also go so far as saying you shouldn't drive above 40mph with a full tank, as it's safer...... /emoticons/tongue.png

 

MarkB

Member
Messages
46
having used 5 tonne ratchet straps myself there are issues with them, you have no fixings to connect things onto the tank to tidy up your set up and or place things in the best position, i.e pump, heater etc,

tightening the straps over time they crush the tank and it starts to go out of shape (happened to both of my previous tanks)

the tank can still slide around

the load restraining points in my previous vans a combo and a astravan were no where near strong enough to hold a tank down.

if scrimping, bodgeing cutting corners is how you prefer to do things then yes ratchet straps are the way to go, but to do the job properly the best and not the cheapest way is the metal frame.

mine was custom made by the cleaning warehouse, it not only solved the problem of securing the tank but a couple of other issues i had before

A S have you been wfp for long? as your set up is very simular to the one i had when i first changed to the pole

 
B

badbusdriver

AS, how sure are you about that payload?. According to the vw website, the max payload for any of the current shape caddy is 753kg, and that is the lwb maxi version, the standard size, like yours, has a 703kg payload. Now i realise your van is the previous style, so those figures are possibly not the same, but even on the parkers website, the max payload stated for your swb caddy is 724kg.

 
Messages
193
bbd my range seemed to vary from 750 to 825kg, the dsg gearbox was heavier and robbed your payload, as did the maxi lwb due to its extra size, presumably.

I can say tho that you never seen to get your full payload, I don't know what anti gravity device they use to get manufacturer payload! I did take an 'empty' axle and overall weight with nothing in van and half tank fuel, and it was short of what it's supposed to be, I then put 400 litres in (along with tank, obviously, and the rest of gear), and the front axle was on the nail, without me in, and the rear had 100kg to go.

but there's no way would have the tank away from the bulkhead, so briefly overload my front axle (I'm 6 foot 1 and nearly 16 stone).

I've just down sized to a 500 litre tank, which should move weight further back, not confirmed with weighbridge yet. and a proper cage bolted to chassis is nxt on my list.

I do (unashamedly) tho excuse myself, in that I travel 35 miles to my work area, load with water at my static location, drive between 2 and 3 miles to the 2 villages where my work is, and that's it, my work is extremely compact. when I travel home I have normally between 50 or at worst 200 litres on board.

been wfp for just 2 years.

 
B

badbusdriver

Parkers list payload for each version, including the ones with dsg g/box, as does the vw website. The lwb maxi has a higher payload due to having heavier duty suspension/brakes/tyres, etc. Same reason you can get a current shape fiat doblo with a 1000kg payload option, when the standard van is 750kg. But i'm not going to argue about it anymore, its your van!.

 

MarkB

Member
Messages
46
A.S have you thought about buying a larger van with a bigger payload instead of driving your caddy illegally overweight?

 
Messages
193
bus man, I'm not arguing /emoticons/smile.png. I can't remember exactly, but the automatic was lower payload due apparently to gearbox being heavier. guessed maxi was same, due to its extra body, but cannot confirm that. be interesting to check websites u list when I get home Sunday, but irrespective of payload, its what it weighs when loaded that counts as far as plod is concerned.

mark, I've considered various options, but as mentioned, I have now downsized tank with different footprint to my older 650 litre, which is lighter and should spread the weight further back, so it may not be overweight anymore, only changed tank two weeks ago. and for the 3 miles a day that I'm possibly/likely to be overloaded (axle wise, not overall, and then by the equivalent of 1 person at most, and then I park up, work for an hour without moving, and no more 'maybe overloaded'), I'm willing to go with it. the transporter is a huge wad of cash more, would be overkill for me, and costs more to run. but thanks for concern mark /emoticons/wink.png

 

MarkB

Member
Messages
46
here is a pic of how my 350l tank is secured

P300312_1315.jpg


not right up against the bulkhead as i keep a few items behind it, well worth the money

 
Messages
193
Put van on weighbridge with this new 500 litre tank in, and (with half tank fuel instead of full on previous test, about 30kg over rear axle) now at 400 litres and me in van I Am 40kg below axle limit on front, and about 140kg spare on rear.

so even though tank is up against bulkhead, its just within axle tolerances at 400 litres.

so no need for new, bigger van /emoticons/biggrin.png ;P

once I get it fitted with frame and bolted down I will probably position it about 9 to 12 inches off bulkhead to spread weight better.

 
P

Pure Clean

Im getting my new tank fitted tomorrow. 650L +frame. It seems that bolting an upright tank right up against the bulkhead is the best and safest option but my question is: Does the tank have to be positioned in the center of the van for equal weight distribution?

The reason I ask is that my tap assembly (or whatever you call it) that leads from the bottom of the tank to the pump sticks out quite a bit and I need to have the tank slightly over to the left(look at it from the rear) or the right hand sliding door wont close.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 
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