Purefreedom 450gpd RO

[Gray]

Has anyone got a purefreedom RO that understands how it works? Other RO's seem different when flushed compared to this. Tap is at 235-240ppm. The ppm is creeping up on production, is now at 24-25ppm before DI. Month ago it was bout 18-20ppm.

The pre filters only been in couple of months and membranes bout 10 months flush 3-4 times per week.

Water pressure good but don't have a gauge.

I no that the RO works harder with the colder water and pressure can drop at this time of year and production can slow which I don't think it has but if you understand the purefreedom RO on flush the production is about 12-13ppm, flush off it increases to 24-25ppm which is normal production.

Is the ppm increasing because the water is so cold at this time of year or could there be another issue?

 

[kahoona]

Hopefully one of the pure freedom guys will come on here and answer that. I have a similar scenario with my Vyair regarding production rates, but I just put it down to water temp being very cold thus membranes not work as effective as in the warmer months.

 

[mkn8382]

Just give them a call they are very helpful and will do anything they can

 

[Gray]

Just give them a call they are very helpful and will do anything they can

Thanks and have done, they are very helpful. Sounds like it could be the membranes on the way out after 10 months! But booster pump could help reduce ppm and increase productivity

 

[jimmyboots]

Hi @Gray I have the collins water 450GPD one. 250PPM going in and after 3 years my PPM coming out is between 50 and 60 . I think my membranes are proper fooked. Where abouts in Staffs are you, I'm in Stoke.

 

[Iron Giant]

Did you not ask them for advice before buying or did you just buy directly off their site .

 

[doug atkinson]

I'm in Rugeley until Saturday morning so if your local I can have a look and advise if you want help

 

[Iron Giant]

Doug is top man talked me through when i messed my RO , Plus offers great products .

 

[brianbadonde]

Gray, I have this same unit. In my experience this is quite normal. Mine are exactly the same. Starys off at between 10-15, and over a year it creeps up to 25 or thereabouts, and continues to go up until I eventually buy new membranes. It's one of those costs that needs to be factored in to your costs. As long as you replace the membranes every 3_4 months and flush for 15 mins twice per week there isn't much more you can do.

IME the cold weather doesn't affect my RO's water tds.

 

[Nick pegler DWC]

I have the pure freedom ro system with booster pump water before ro is high at around 300 after ro it's coming out at 5 I flush each week and change pre filters every 6 months membranes about a year give or take also resin last for ages really pleased with this little system

 

[spruce]

Gray, I have this same unit. In my experience this is quite normal. Mine are exactly the same. Starys off at between 10-15, and over a year it creeps up to 25 or thereabouts, and continues to go up until I eventually buy new membranes. It's one of those costs that needs to be factored in to your costs. As long as you replace the membranes every 3_4 months and flush for 15 mins twice per week there isn't much more you can do.
IME the cold weather doesn't affect my RO's water tds.

If you have to replace membranes that often then I'm sure others would be complaining of the same thing if it were the norm.

If you are having to replace membranes that often then the r/o isn't set up correctly or there is an issue with the carbon block side of the prefilters and chlorine is destroying the membranes.

We purchase fiberdyne carbon block filters (Doug has an equivalent) that remove the chlorine from a larger volume of water. The Fiberdyne 10" is good for 38,000 liters. They are more expensive, but for good reason. If your r/o has a waste to pure ratio of 3 to 1 then every 1 liter of pure produced costs your 4 liters of tap water, all of which will have to be dechlorinated. This means that you will be able to process 9500 liters of pure (9 1/2 IBC tanks) from each Fiberdyne prefilter. If you use 400 liters of water a day, then that will be sufficient water for a months cleaning, excluding Saturday's and Sundays. So will will need to replace that filter once a month.

I have a GAC-20R-C 20" carbon block prefilter for chlorine removal on my desk. The label says it has a service life of 2500 US gallons or approx 10000 liters. Using the same example above I will only be able to produce 2500 liters of pure lasting me just over 6 days. So if I used a GAC filter I would need to change that every week.

Our last r/o was a 450GPD and the membranes lasted us 6 years.

Our current r/o is a 4040 and that membrane is now 2 1/2 years old and is still performing to the same specs it did when it was brand new.

We use 20" prefilters - a 20" fiberdyne prefilter is rated to service 78,000 liters of water. As our 4040 works best at a waste to pure ratio of 1 to 1, this filter is changed approx every 3 months.

 

[Gray]

Did you not ask them for advice before buying or did you just buy directly off their site .

I went to them directly and showed me the system. Said they last 12-18 months. But a booster pump reduces the ppm and increases the production.

 

[Gray]

I'm in Rugeley until Saturday morning so if your local I can have a look and advise if you want help

Sorry Doug missed your post. Think its all set up correctly as the ppm was alot lower wen i first had it. But seems to be shooting up now!

 

[Gray]

Gray, I have this same unit. In my experience this is quite normal. Mine are exactly the same. Starys off at between 10-15, and over a year it creeps up to 25 or thereabouts, and continues to go up until I eventually buy new membranes. It's one of those costs that needs to be factored in to your costs. As long as you replace the membranes every 3_4 months and flush for 15 mins twice per week there isn't much more you can do.
IME the cold weather doesn't affect my RO's water tds.

I did realise after 12-18 months id probably need new ones but as my production is quite low at the moment didnt even think the ppm would rise that much in a year.

 

[Gray]

I have the pure freedom ro system with booster pump water before ro is high at around 300 after ro it's coming out at 5 I flush each week and change pre filters every 6 months membranes about a year give or take also resin last for ages really pleased with this little system

This is the info i need, is your water pressure low or did you use a booster cos it increases production and lowers ppm?

5ppm is amazing. i'm really thinking of getting one. I do change my pre filters every 3 months. Do you use purefreedom prefilters?

 

[Gray]

If you have to replace membranes that often then I'm sure others would be complaining of the same thing if it were the norm.
If you are having to replace membranes that often then the r/o isn't set up correctly or there is an issue with the carbon block side of the prefilters and chlorine is destroying the membranes.

We purchase fiberdyne carbon block filters (Doug has an equivalent) that remove the chlorine from a larger volume of water. The Fiberdyne 10" is good for 38,000 liters. They are more expensive, but for good reason. If your r/o has a waste to pure ratio of 3 to 1 then every 1 liter of pure produced costs your 4 liters of tap water, all of which will have to be dechlorinated. This means that you will be able to process 9500 liters of pure (9 1/2 IBC tanks) from each Fiberdyne prefilter. If you use 400 liters of water a day, then that will be sufficient water for a months cleaning, excluding Saturday's and Sundays. So will will need to replace that filter once a month.

I have a GAC-20R-C 20" carbon block prefilter for chlorine removal on my desk. The label says it has a service life of 2500 US gallons or approx 10000 liters. Using the same example above I will only be able to produce 2500 liters of pure lasting me just over 6 days. So if I used a GAC filter I would need to change that every week.

Our last r/o was a 450GPD and the membranes lasted us 6 years.

Our current r/o is a 4040 and that membrane is now 2 1/2 years old and is still performing to the same specs it did when it was brand new.

We use 20" prefilters - a 20" fiberdyne prefilter is rated to service 78,000 liters of water. As our 4040 works best at a waste to pure ratio of 1 to 1, this filter is changed approx every 3 months.

My RO is about 60/40 60 being pure. So the fiberdyne carbon block filters are good quality and last longer and preserve the membranes longer. Should look at trying it, is this wat you had in ur 450GPD? Purefreedom do say the membranes last from 12-18months in their system but i didnt expect it to rise to 25ppm just yet as my production was very low from April 15 onwards as i had only just started.

 

[spruce]

With the hardness of your water I think that the ratio of waste to pure should be between 60 waste and 40 pure to 2 waste to 1 pure. We had a 3 to 1 restrictor in ours.

The first thing I would be doing is trying to identify if one of the membranes is faulty.

You should be able to unplug the pure from each outlet and test it with your tds meter. You may have to leave a length of tubing in the coupler to catch the water. Ideally. you would want to test the performance of each membrane separately. If they are all showing similar levels then you can conclude that all membranes have failed. You then have to look at the carbon block filter and perhaps adjust your waste to pure ratio.

I don't know how Pure Freedom set their r/o up. I've seen it done 3 separate ways.

First;

The outlet pipe from the c/b filter is divided into 3 with each pipe being fed into the membrane inlet. The pure outlets are all joined together as are the waste pipes with then go the the restrictor.

Advantage: all membranes get to work evenly.

Second;

The water from c/b filter gets divided into 2, each going to the membrane inlet. The third membrane is fed from the waste of the first two.

Advantages; makes better use of water.

Cons; the third membrane has to work harder and tends to fail first.

Third;

The water from the c/b is fed into the first membrane. The waste from the first goes into the second membrane and the waste from that goes into the third membrane. The waste from the third membrane is restricted.

Advantages; no idea for the user. Saves money on JG fittings for the supplier. But again the second and third membrane take a hammering.

But which ever way those membranes should last longer than that.

The other thing; where did you get your tds meter from? There are fake (copies) being sold on ebay that are cheap but don't work properly.

 

[Gray]

With the hardness of your water I think that the ratio of waste to pure should be between 60 waste and 40 pure to 2 waste to 1 pure. We had a 3 to 1 restrictor in ours.
The first thing I would be doing is trying to identify if one of the membranes is faulty.

You should be able to unplug the pure from each outlet and test it with your tds meter. You may have to leave a length of tubing in the coupler to catch the water. Ideally. you would want to test the performance of each membrane separately. If they are all showing similar levels then you can conclude that all membranes have failed. You then have to look at the carbon block filter and perhaps adjust your waste to pure ratio.

I don't know how Pure Freedom set their r/o up. I've seen it done 3 separate ways.

First;

The outlet pipe from the c/b filter is divided into 3 with each pipe being fed into the membrane inlet. The pure outlets are all joined together as are the waste pipes with then go the the restrictor.

Advantage: all membranes get to work evenly.

Second;

The water from c/b filter gets divided into 2, each going to the membrane inlet. The third membrane is fed from the waste of the first two.

Advantages; makes better use of water.

Cons; the third membrane has to work harder and tends to fail first.

Third;

The water from the c/b is fed into the first membrane. The waste from the first goes into the second membrane and the waste from that goes into the third membrane. The waste from the third membrane is restricted.

Advantages; no idea for the user. Saves money on JG fittings for the supplier. But again the second and third membrane take a hammering.

But which ever way those membranes should last longer than that.

The other thing; where did you get your tds meter from? There are fake (copies) being sold on ebay that are cheap but don't work properly.

I think I've identified the problem, having a conversation with pure freedom, the pre filters have a life span of 11000 litres. I probably use an averge of 1000 a week plus waste 2000 a week. Pre filters should be therefore changed every 6 weeks on those figures. So effectively there being used another 6 weeks over limit!

So I'd imagine the reason the membranes are wearing out quicker than normal.

Wat do u think Spruce?

 

[spruce]

If the carbon block is past its service life then it won't remove chlorine from the water. Chlorine will then be going into the membranes and destroying them. So yes, their solution is very feasible and makes sense.

Some will say the the manufacturers give the worst case senario for the service life of their filters. After all, how do they know how much chlorine the water board is adding to the water supply at any given moment as it will differ depending on water quality and the time of year. They contend that you can go over that figure quite happily and get away with it.

I always follow the manufacturer's recommendations. For me, a £24.00 + VAT c/b filter is cheaper than a £220.00 + VAT r/o membrane

I also have my r/o inlet on a water meter so I know when the c/b filter needs changing.

 

[Gray]

If the carbon block is past its service life then it won't remove chlorine from the water. Chlorine will then be going into the membranes and destroying them. So yes, their solution is very feasible and makes sense.
Some will say the the manufacturers give the worst case senario for the service life of their filters. After all, how do they know how much chlorine the water board is adding to the water supply at any given moment as it will differ depending on water quality and the time of year. They contend that you can go over that figure quite happily and get away with it.

I always follow the manufacturer's recommendations. For me, a £24.00 + VAT c/b filter is cheaper than a £220.00 + VAT r/o membrane

I also have my r/o inlet on a water meter so I know when the c/b filter needs changing.

I totally agree. So next step get a decent cbf, where do u get urs from? Mine is the 10" Plus it seems I'll have to change the membranes shortly. I may even get a booster pump and lower the Tds even further.

 

[spruce]

I totally agree. So next step get a decent cbf, where do u get urs from? Mine is the 10" Plus it seems I'll have to change the membranes shortly. I may even get a booster pump and lower the Tds even further.

I get mine from Gardiners. There are c/b filters with better specs available. For example, Doug (www.daqua.co.uk) has a Pentek Chlorplus 10" filter which is good for 189,000 liters for £22.00 + + but its has a micron rating of 1. The Gardener Fiberdyne has a rating of 5 microns.

So the Pentek unit supplied by Doug is far more efficient and is a much better value for money on paper.

However my experience with a similar 1 micron c/b filter purchased elsewhere was that it blocked up long before the service life of the filter was reached. Even removing it and 'jet washing' the outer surface didn't really help; neither did back flushing it.

A Fiberdyne filter can be also used as a sediment filter if your water is very clean. Ours is laden with sediment. So we use a sediment filter which is also rated at 5 microns. The Fiberdyne filter never gets clogged as particles that are less than 5 micron pass through both filters. Particles larger than 5 microns get trapped by the sediment filter.

At one time we were changing a sediment filter every month, but our water quality has improved somewhat recently so we don't change them as often as we used to.