xline or pure2o di system

Discussion in 'Water Fed Pole Cleaning' started by russ1979, Nov 8, 2015.

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  1. russ1979

    russ1979 Member
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    Here I go...

    my TDS is 36-41

    I don't want to diy build just want a no worry's setup so I can concentrate on building my business

    I have bought a Transit Connect 230 LWB
    I have narrowed down my search to 2 di systems
    - xline 500L di with 5kw or 9kw diesel heater with frost stat mode for heater
    -pure 2o 400L di with 9kw diesel heater

    My dilemma is not knowing much about these machines which one to go for,
    the xline seems to have all the bells and whistles but...
    -will the 5kw heater provide the right temp water
    -will I get the ferry motion when driving
    -do I really need the frost stat on the heater to stop system freezing
    The pure2o is designed and built buy ionics which are known for being a top quality system
    -they only put van ports in side of van which means cutting a hole
    -and the speedliner is so expensive opposed to the paint on protection

    sorry it so many questions but my head is fried trying to decide:confused:

    I know they are both good setups but just want to be safe any advise will be appreciated
    THANKS FOR READING:thumbsup:
    RUSS
     
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  2. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    You have the space to go for a 500 liter tank. That's what I would go for.
    When my SIL was cleaning windows we fitted his Connect T220L with a 500 liter tank. There were some days he used it all.

    i would try to get on top of window cleaning with a pole before I started spending money on niceties TBH. Most of us get through the winter months with just using cold water. Rather spend that money on advertising, leafleting etc to improve the core of your business.

    I would recommend you put a diesel heater on hold at the moment.
    No matter what the suppliers say, a Webasto diesel heater isn't designed for use in a window cleaning application. Maintenance is high when it goes wrong.

    A diesel heater takes a large amount of current starting up (around 18 amps) for around 2 minutes and then settles down to drawing about 2.5 amps.
    A heater on a froststat will start up when the temp reaches 2 degrees and will run for 10 minutes before powering off. It will just heat the internal water circuit. Depending on the outside temperature, that heater could switch on and off quite a few times during the night taking quite a lot of current from your battery. Most suppliers would recommend a second battery dedicated to the boiler and many complain that its difficult to keep this battery charged up.

    http://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/threads/batteries-die-in-10-minutes.11173/

    http://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/threads/van-heaters.14551/#post-211386
     
  3. russ1979

    russ1979 Member
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    WOW just read through your links there is a lot to take in
    I can see your point on the frost stat, but the diesel heater for the wfp system everyone seems to offer these and I wanted to stand out from the crowd (marketing)
    Is a webasto heater what xline and pure 2o use
     
  4. spruce

    spruce Grand Master
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    #4 spruce, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
    Most suppliers use either the 5kw or 9kw Webasto furnaces. Brodex and Onmipole supply another diesel heater made in Canada called a Hurricane 2.

    http://www.brodexbms.co.uk/products/other-cleaning-machines/flame-water-heater
    http://www.omnipole-systems.com/wfpsystems/omni800litrehotwfpvan-bespoke.html

    Exhaust exit with these systems are an issue. They are designed primarily for boats so the exhaust is top mounted. There are variants that have bottom mounted exhausts, but I'm not sure what these suppliers sell currently. (At one time they were top mounted exhausts).

    All customers are interested in is what they are paying for; clean windows. They pay for results.

    IMHO a clean, uncluttered, well lettered van is a good way to start. Being well groomed with a clean 'uniform' is enough to give a good first impression. Its then up to you to do a good cleaning job that meets or exceeds your customer's expectations. A well designed leaflet is also a must. Customer's aren't going to buy your services just because you have a hot water system.

    If you want hot water, then go the gas route as its cheaper.

    But you must have a vent through the roof to get rid of exhaust gasses.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stainless...754549?hash=item43c92995b5:g:CREAAOSwo6lWOIZs

    You will need a gas regulator and supply pipe and a well secured gas bottle. This shouldn't cost you any more that £350 - £400, which is a lot cheaper than a diesel heater. You don't have a battery drain as the LPG heater starts up instantly from the ignition of 2 torch batteries.

    If the gas boiler fails then you haven't an expensive service cost of £300 or £400, you simply replace your existing boiler with a new one. Despite their price, these boilers seem pretty robust. The majority of failures are probably done to the owner/user forgetting to drain the water out of it every evening in winter. (Spring's latest frostat will also switch your gas boiler on for 10 minutes when temperatures drops to 2 degrees - it activates your pump so you would need to couple your hose reel back into your water tank.)

    Over the years we have seen many very expensive van setups come, stay for a short time and then go. They didn't get their priorities right.

    Unless you buy an existing compact round, most work you will get now will be spread about; a couple of houses together here and there. Once you have cleaned a customer's windows and they are happy with your service, ask for referrals; knock the neighbours and have a well designed simple leaflet you can leave if there is no one in. Where you got no one in and left a leaflet, go back and knock until you find someone in.

    Lets say a little more regarding a diesel heater setup and its application in our business.
    A diesel heater will be fine if you have a large commercial job to do with lots of windows all together, ie a school. We find that pumps will be working around 75% of our working day. So that heater will be working hard to heat the water you are using. Any stoppage time will allow the heater to replenish the heat 'lost' back into it's internal water circuit and header tank. In an application such as this your heater will /should work continuously which is good. You will have an 'endless' supply of warm water. Your heater won't switch off as often and have to restart, using lots of power.

    Now if your residential work is here and there and you stop to talk along the way (good thing as you need to offer your services to everyone you see in their gardens etc) then the diesel heater will heat the water in it's internal heat circuit until it reaches the switch off temperature. It then goes into power off mode, but the water in the circuit is still being circulated by the boiler pump. Powering off takes 3 minutes. If you are unfortunate to switch on your water a few moments after the boiler has started its power off sequence then you will quickly use up the heat in the circuit and you will then get luke-warm/cold water at your brush head. It will take another 2 minutes to restart the boiler (using lots of battery power). If your boiler is a 5kw it will take ages to get up to temperature as you keep drawing off what little warmth is being generated.

    Right, job done time to more on to the next house a few blocks away. If you are fortunate, the 5kw boiler has managed to reheat the water in its internal water circuit and you will get hot water for the whole clean. But if you aren't that fortunate then the heater could have switched off by the time you started; a repeat scenario of the previous clean.

    I believe that the way to rectify this is to fit a second heat exchanger with a second pump and digital temperature controller. Once the boiler heats its internal circuit to a preset temperature, the second pump will kick in and bleed that 'excess' heat off, dumping the hot water back into your tank. Once the temperature drops a bit, then it switches off. The idea behind this is that it will keep the boiler ticking over and you will have enough hot water as and when you want it.
     
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