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andy1992

Employing people



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andy1992

Merry Christmas all,

 

Sorry if this is already out there. Wondering what sort of contracts/wages people who employee or have employed pay there staff ?

 

Cheers

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Smurf

That reminds me I've got to have a word with the boss for a big pay rise next year or I'm off the robbing cow :D

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WWC

I asked earlier this year. I don't remember all the replies as they were varied. But some pay a fixed wage, others a percentage. It depends I suppose on what you are talking about. I.e. do you want a team to go out and purely window clean? Do you have other cleaning services that you want help with? Do you want someone to work directly with you, or alone? Full time, part time or occasional?

 

It may be better to give specifics of what you are thinking about. That way, you can get some more accurate answers.

 

----------

Paul

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Guest boarcity

every windie employer does it diffrently from the next. i pay hourly and always round up the hours. i.e. if we finish at ten past 4 ,i pay the workers till 5 . i know another firm who pays extra bonus if they make over a target figure each day

what iv learnt as an employer is to get loyalty and grafting in all weathers from employees you must guarantee a certain number of hours AND some little extra bonuses , so they can plan a future or they will guaranteed quit on you.

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Dave B

I used to sub off a guy who had a few windies all working solo for him

They would get £10 ph but do £20 ph of work

If they were working quick and did say £30 in an hour they would say they did 1.5 hrs work and get 15 quid for that hour

Some guys were fast and earning 100+ quid a day

That was when a 3 bed round here was around £7.50

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rafawindowcleaning

I am interested to know how it looks from a legal side not the wages side, say I am self employed can somebody that I will employ be self employed as well and responsible for paying his/her own taxes or do I have to give them a contract of employment, holiday pay etc?

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shazzy692002

I think they can be self employed to. I suppose its no different to builders, they take on other builders to help on bigger projects and pay them a daily wage.

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Dave B

When i was subbing years ago i had a few months in the summer when i got a mate to help

I took £200 worth of work a day for me and did it giving the owner 20% for giving me the work so 160 in my pocket

Then took 160-200 a day for my mate based on him doing 20 an hour who i paid 10 an hour so i would take the 20% off for the boss. . Then my mates 10 leaving me with 6 quid an hour extra and he paid all his own tax (i hope) as he was self employed just subbing from me

All perfectly legal and no contract or holiday pay etc needed

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John Roberts

If they are self employed and paying their own taxes they are a subcontractor not an employee. Skill level and speed varies greatly amongst window cleaners, you have to pay what the persons worth not a fixed amount.

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Dave B

I only paid a tenner an hour as he could easily do 20 an hour as was quick and up to a good standard

This was about 8 years ago and he could do 20 an hour on those prehistoric prices

3 beds for 7 etc

Now the same houses are minimum 10-11 without a conservatory

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Guest boarcity

you will get away with it [him being self employed] if the worker is only with you for a short time , but not long term.

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Dave B

After a certain amount of months the hmrc consider them to be employed and have the same rights as employed staff

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Guest boarcity

iv had to get rid of a recent employee who after a promising start showed his true colours one lunchtime at mcD. We were about to pull away ,4 up in van when a big lady got into a little smart car nearby. my guess is my employee pulled a face at her. anyway Within seconds there was a full blown argument going on, she got out of her car ran towards him who had got out of van shoutin insults and they squared up to each other.

hes not 2 months out of jail and he cant behave .

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TolishAPurd
iv had to get rid of a recent employee who after a promising start showed his true colours one lunchtime at mcD. We were about to pull away ,4 up in van when a big lady got into a little smart car nearby. my guess is my employee pulled a face at her. anyway Within seconds there was a full blown argument going on, she got out of her car ran towards him who had got out of van shoutin insults and they squared up to each other.

hes not 2 months out of jail and he cant behave .

I was wondering what happened to that bloke, I remember when you first posted about him. Shameit didnt work out, but stuff like thats not good for the image.

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Guest boarcity
I was wondering what happened to that bloke, I remember when you first posted about him. Shameit didnt work out, but stuff like thats not good for the image.

what made it worse she took a photo of the van "for evidence,you just wait" but im pretty sure its my face bang centre in the photo due to angle she was stood. iv not had any notification yet,but you know how these things can escalate ,its possible she had a heart attack that evening. Anyway hes gone now.

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Richard
Merry Christmas all,

 

Sorry if this is already out there. Wondering what sort of contracts/wages people who employee or have employed pay there staff ?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Looking at your profit margin will help in deciding the hours and pay.

 

For example - if you decide to pay someone £14k, £16k cost to you with the on cost; and you have a current turnover of £40k with cost of £8k, giving a gross profit margin of 80% (£32K) you will need to increase your turnover by 40% (£16k) to £56k just to get where you already was before you decided to take on staff, otherwise you have gone backwards!

 

Once you have reach that figure of 56k, and recouped the cost in getting there, then you can start to work out how much more you can make with a staff member.

 

You have to do you own math, but the idea should be to take on staff and make more money, not less money, otherwise you might as well give it (profit) away to your family rather than give your current profit to an employee.

 

Good luck

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Simply Business

Hi guys,

 

Seen a few people mention self-employed/employeed/sub-contracting. Just to clear things up, if the 'sub-contractor' is working under your company name, using your materials and tools and under your instruction then the HMRC will almost certainly class him as an employee (even if you wouldn't call him/her as such).

 

These are called labour only sub-contractors and you'll also be legally required to get some employers' liability for each worker - there are fines of up to £2500, per person, per day if you're found not to have it!

 

If, however, you use an external window cleaning company who send any of their given employees on the day - along with their own tools, working under their own instruction etc - and you invoice the company, then they are called bona fide subcontractors and you won't require EL.

 

Hope that helps :)

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Dave B

What about me then..i worked subbing off a guy using my own tools and vehicle

Whatever work i took off him i gave him 20% of the value

Well he paid me - 20% as he did his own collecting

He had 9 proper employees who were still paying own tax etc and he never did holiday pay etc so I reckon he was on a dodgy

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Simply Business

It can be a tricky situation, Daveyboy1.

 

If for example you weren't able to turn up one morning for the job, would it be your responsibility to higher a replacement (who would work under your name) or would that fall on the guy who was paying you?

 

Also consider, in the eye of the customer, were you working under the main guy's company's name? Or was it clear that you were external?

 

And were you doing specialist work that his company don't often do, or was it a case of being another set of hands?

 

All of these things can have a burden on whether or not an individual is using labour-only sub-contractors (and therefore needs EL for them - as I suspect you were working for this guy), or bona fide and not in need of EL.

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Dave B

Was more another set of hands

Although he did use me for gutter jobs as he didn't trust his guys to do them having no experience

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Simply Business

It certainly sounds like he may have been 'employing' you (in the eyes of HMRC), even if you wouldn't have considered yourself his employee.

 

If you are bona fide sub-contracting it's usually pretty clear. I.e. My company (let's call it Simply Kitchens) fits kitchens and I get an external company (Simply Electricians) to come and do all of the electrical work. I (Simply Kitchens) merely pay Simply Electricians a fee, and on each day they send a couple of their employees (could be completely different guys each day). If they don't turn up, it's the responsibility of Simply Electricians to send more of their guys.

 

Simply Kitchens isn't specialised in fitting electrics so go to a company who is (Simply Electricians) - they would work under their own instruction, I just pay their company. It's clear to the customer there is another firm on site, and not that they are simply extra hands to help with our job.

 

Hope that clears things up a little :)

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Dave B

Seems to be a grey area in window cleaning as i know a few guys who must be technically employed but all doing what i was doing for companies

Dodgy thing was the guy i subbed for had none of my details..just my mobile number.. 1 day he sent someone round to drop off a new applicator that i had asked him to get while he was ordering his own stuff and he had to phone to ask my address. .that was after about 6 months working for him

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Simply Business

Indeed it can be quite a grey area, you're right. And often, people are keen to fight their case for using bona fide's as opposed to labour-only sub-contractors because it saves them money by not having to buy employers' liability. It might save a few quid in the short-term but it's breaking the law and with huge fines in place, is it really worth the risk?

 

Also it means if you get injured on a job, you wouldn't have the protection in place that you should via employers' liability - that's why it's a legal requirement, to protect employees!

 

How bizarre - does sound quite dodgy, I'd agree! Are you still doing any jobs for this chap, Daveyboy1?

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