Buying a round to hire workers for

Hi guys,

I'm considering taking out a loan to buy an additional local round and finding two guys to work it for me.

Any tips on doing this as I've only ever done rounds by myself and with my wife.

The round earns £1100 weekly currently with two people working it.

1. How much would you pay the workers?

2. How do you go about finding good, honest and reliable workers and keep them?

3. How do you manage collection of money and paying workers to ensure money doesn't get into their pockets that belongs to you?

Any tips or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks /emoticons/smile.png

Once you've answered questions 1, 2 & 3 please let the rest of us know the answer. /emoticons/wink.png

You have to pay people pensions now even if you employ one person, so I 've heard from the radio, remember holiday and sick pay, sorting out contracts.

I was thinking of renting out a part of my round to a person I know, he would pay me 20% of the income, that way you dont need employers insurance, I think, as he is not an employee. I am still trying to find out how it all works. Maybe ask an accountant.

On the pensions front you pay a total of 1% towards contributions. The advice i give over and over on this forum to all of you is go get an accountant.

An accountant will cost a small business £150 per year to do the books and give you all sorts of valid advice on everything else.

Ours also takes care of all the payroll, pensions and other interests we have and costs us £120 per month but that is a pittance for what he saves us in taxes and for having his advice as and when on speed dial.

theres a steep learning curve there. your going to need lads who know what theyre doing. i think if i was you id comb my mind for lads that id seen out working for someone else and go poach them.

but if i didnt know any lads to talk to, if i knew nobody who is a grafter type employee,id hold fire cos what ur planning is much too risky dumping green newbies onto a busy round ,

the rounds taking 1100 so you want to factor in wages of 600 . fuel /van/ insurances of 200 leaving a 300 for yourself is enough to cover unexpected. 1100 take is enough to be viable IF you get the right lads

just my opinion

Thanks for the replies, great tips.

I was thinking of contracting the lads, so they invoice me each week or month to avoid having to employ them with everything that goes along with it. What do you reckon?

What's the going rate for a round nowadays? This one is about 5 times its monthly earnings.

Thanks for the replies, great tips.
I was thinking of contracting the lads, so they invoice me each week or month to avoid having to employ them with everything that goes along with it. What do you reckon?

What's the going rate for a round nowadays? This one is about 5 times its monthly earnings.

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youd be better to employ ,on the books. because finding 2 self employed lads [with the nous to sort their own insurances and do their own tax properly ] will be very hard. that type is always already out working not sitting waiting. and if they DONT do the taxes and you will know by how they talk,you will be fretting waiting for The taxman to come after you- thats no way to live. iv seen this happen to men whove ignored it

one way it might work is to send out your wife with 2 employees to work that round while you get on with your own round with an extra employee. that way itd be supervised and she would collect the money. doing it that way youd have to bite the bullet and do payroll and tax but thats not as daunting as you think, and youd really be in control of it that way .

iv been employing 4 or 5 yrs now and altho i didnt do it buying a round,i built up slowly,1 parttimer than 2 and so on, im really glad i did it . registering as an employer with HMRC and doing wages and sorting taxes isnt awful like many think, sure it takes a leap of faith but its just something else you learn as you go along. you get a system going .

interesting thread and topic

i,m at stage for another van,my thinking is let my mate take van i get another guy and hayho the thing on my mind do i have to employ this guy since he is taking my van using my gear

at the moment he is self employed, but happens when your rained off holidays what is the legal requirments

thanks guys again

youd be better to employ ,on the books. because finding 2 self employed lads [with the nous to sort their own insurances and do their own tax properly ] will be very hard. that type is always already out working not sitting waiting. and if they DONT do the taxes and you will know by how they talk,you will be fretting waiting for The taxman to come after you- thats no way to live. iv seen this happen to men whove ignored it
one way it might work is to send out your wife with 2 employees to work that round while you get on with your own round with an extra employee. that way itd be supervised and she would collect the money. doing it that way youd have to bite the bullet and do payroll and tax but thats not as daunting as you think, and youd really be in control of it that way .

iv been employing 4 or 5 yrs now and altho i didnt do it buying a round,i built up slowly,1 parttimer than 2 and so on, im really glad i did it . registering as an employer with HMRC and doing wages and sorting taxes isnt awful like many think, sure it takes a leap of faith but its just something else you learn as you go along. you get a system going .

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hi boar do you pay your guys full holiday and sick pay

hi boar do you pay your guys full holiday and sick pay

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yes i do. i will be the 1st to admit in the erly days of employing i didnt do holiday pay or bank holiday pay . tho i did/do always pay a full days pay even if its rained off . i had to overburden my round with work before i was able to do the holiday pay thang. i now know that long as you overburden yourself with work [several lines in the water,taking on more work even if you think the days full ] this overcomes things like holiday pay,sickness pay or any other extra expense

could guys work for me self employed or am i stuck the fact they will be using my van and gear all year

could guys work for me self employed or am i stuck the fact they will be using my van and gear all year

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taking on lads as self employed might seem to be the easy way [avoiding sorting out tax national ins] but long term isnt the easy way. cos if youre honest they ARE actually fulltime with you in your van and youll get real loyalty if you employ them, rather than taking on an as-and-when basis .

as i said erlier doing it as an employer [reigstering as an employer with HMRC] isnt summat to fear . if youre sh/ttin yourself registering then make a real effort to increase your workload just before you employ ,that extra income will cover any tax/bookeeper/accountant expenses several times over.

nice one boar enjoy your day

Thanks everyone for the responses so far, really helpful.

If you're employing lads, do you get them to collect all the money too?

what do you do about bad weather days, do you pay them for those even if they don't work or just pay them for the days they actually work?

If you're employing lads, do you get them to collect all the money too?

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Knock collections on the head right now, biggest waste of time and downside to your business.

If people want to pay your lads whilst they are there that is fine, make sure they ask for the payment, but when signing them up get them on Paypal, Bank Transfer, GoCardless etc etc.

Anything you can do to avoid having to waste your evenings chasing people for cash, nothing worse than going out on a cold night and knocking 30 doors, 12 not home, 5, say 'oh wifes out and she deals with that' 4 say 'Oh, i'll just double you up next time' 6 pay you (Woo hoo) and the other 5 have some other BS reason as to why you aren't getting paid tonight.

Automated payments all the way.

youre going to have to pay them for rainy /windy days -or theyll leave .

even if its raining hard first thing in the morning we still Always head out to work. 9 times out of ten the rain has eased up by ten a.m. so work commences then and the list gets done as planned . i cant think of a whole day wasted totally in the last 3yrs , if its high winds well you only do the low houses if necessary bring low houses work forward on the diary by a few days .

if your diary is full [ and by the sounds of it at £1100 take each week it a full un] , its a big mistake if you sit in the van if its drizzling - becos you have to do a double load to catch up the following day .

When I have employees they are on standby until 12 noon every day. They get paid the full day but are always expected to make up shortfall over the next few days.

An old friend of mine worked for another window cleaner, he was so called 'self employed' - fell off the ladder and broke his arm - no compensation from the lad he was working for cause he was 'self employed' as a sub. (BTW he was also registered with the tax man as self employed)

Anyhow, the bloke swore he would be looked after etc etc, (cause he was bricking it about not having insurance) compensation turned out to be 'If you're hungry come to the cafe I'll buy you a sandwich'

So finally after the guys he works for treat him like **** and basically fu*k him over he asks my opinion. Now I am the worlds leading expert on window cleaning but not the law!

(That last line was said tounge in cheek, of course I am a legal expert) /emoticons/tongue.png

My first port of call was to call my accountant - the response is this - my mate has a case, the only person he worked for was this one firm, for several months, hence he is not a sub he is in the eyes of the law an employee.

Next day I was on the biggest residential job I have, beautiful country home, she is a very very successful barrister I posed the predicament to her, she said 'wait here I'll be right back' and came back with the number for a solicitor that world take on my friends case. She said without question he had every right to file a claim against the company for compensation as he was for all intents and purposes an 'employee'

If we spent half the time just playing by the system instead of playing the system we would all be a lot better educated and have a lot less stress.

Now I have said this next part in another thread so I will reiterate it here.

You hire a guy cash in hand £100 per week.

You do this for a year £5200

You get investigated by the tax man:

'Where's this £5200 gone Mr Window Cleaner'

Now your only defensive argument that shows you weren't deliberately avoiding taxes is 'It's in my pocket, paid it to myself'

'OK, well you owe tax on that so well have another £1040 to cover the tax you have not paid on that £5200'

At this stage the 'cash in hand' employee has cost you £6240

The whole way through this the employee only wants cash in hand so he can still get his benefits, which are also coming out of your taxes

The only real question is are you trying to run a professional company that you will grow into a brand name or are you a cowboy operator that will most likely go under in the next few years?

Not many things @boarcity and I agree on along the way but at least he seems to be doing right by his employees and by the rules that so many other successful operations seem to thrive by.

When I have employees they are on standby until 12 noon every day. They get paid the full day but are always expected to make up shortfall over the next few days.
An old friend of mine worked for another window cleaner, he was so called 'self employed' - fell off the ladder and broke his arm - no compensation from the lad he was working for cause he was 'self employed' as a sub. (BTW he was also registered with the tax man as self employed)

Anyhow, the bloke swore he would be looked after etc etc, (cause he was bricking it about not having insurance) compensation turned out to be 'If you're hungry come to the cafe I'll buy you a sandwich'

So finally after the guys he works for treat him like **** and basically fu*k him over he asks my opinion. Now I am the worlds leading expert on window cleaning but not the law!

(That last line was said tounge in cheek, of course I am a legal expert) /emoticons/tongue.png

My first port of call was to call my accountant - the response is this - my mate has a case, the only person he worked for was this one firm, for several months, hence he is not a sub he is in the eyes of the law an employee.

Next day I was on the biggest residential job I have, beautiful country home, she is a very very successful barrister I posed the predicament to her, she said 'wait here I'll be right back' and came back with the number for a solicitor that world take on my friends case. She said without question he had every right to file a claim against the company for compensation as he was for all intents and purposes an 'employee'

If we spent half the time just playing by the system instead of playing the system we would all be a lot better educated and have a lot less stress.

Now I have said this next part in another thread so I will reiterate it here.

You hire a guy cash in hand £100 per week.

You do this for a year £5200

You get investigated by the tax man:

'Where's this £5200 gone Mr Window Cleaner'

Now your only defensive argument that shows you weren't deliberately avoiding taxes is 'It's in my pocket, paid it to myself'

'OK, well you owe tax on that so well have another £1040 to cover the tax you have not paid on that £5200'

At this stage the 'cash in hand' employee has cost you £6240

The whole way through this the employee only wants cash in hand so he can still get his benefits, which are also coming out of your taxes

The only real question is are you trying to run a professional company that you will grow into a brand name or are you a cowboy operator that will most likely go under in the next few years?

Not many things @boarcity and I agree on along the way but at least he seems to be doing right by his employees and by the rules that so many other successful operations seem to thrive by.

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great bit of information there green i,ll be making appointment with a accountant soon

great bit of information there green i,ll be making appointment with a accountant soon

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TY @Duncs the main thing you will be wondering when you leave the appointment is 'why the hell did i not do this sooner?'

I used to have 2 windys working for me full time. Ran 3 vans. Stressed about keeping all the work up to date. Got tired of it in the end. Sold off the 2 extra vans. Sold most of the work. Kept back the best stuff. Now do 3 reasonable days a week and am prob £100 a week worse off. Easy days

yes i do. i will be the 1st to admit in the erly days of employing i didnt do holiday pay or bank holiday pay . tho i did/do always pay a full days pay even if its rained off . i had to overburden my round with work before i was able to do the holiday pay thang. i now know that long as you overburden yourself with work [several lines in the water,taking on more work even if you think the days full ] this overcomes things like holiday pay,sickness pay or any other extra expense

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Boar,

When. I was doing the math for employing, I always thought I'd factor in holiday/sick pay into the employees wages. I.e. If their wage was gonna be £90 a say, it would actually be £80, and £10 aside to go into their holiday/sick pot. So you don't loose anything. And what's yours at the end of the day is yours.