To Expand or Not to Expand? That is the question ;-)

Hi All,

So this is where Im at:

I've now come to the point where Im getting new customers all the time which is absolutely fantastic but I'm nearly at full capacity, I've increased my working speed to about as far as i'm comfortable and have been working on re-scheduling customers to make my round more compact.

I haven't actively had to go out looking for new customers for some time now and am fortunate enough to get lots of work through recommendation from existing customers via word of mouth and Fbook ect also I seem to get a fair amount of work just by being out there working.

I've just completed my first year as a business owner and have loved every moment of it /emoticons/smile.png yes its bloody hard work and takes lots of organizing and hard graft but I honestly wouldn't change a thing. My only regret it that I didn't do this when I was a lot younger instead of working for THE MAN, with very little sense of achievement.

After my first six months or so I just couldn't get it out off my head that I could be onto something here LOL

I meet up with the Lads i use to manage in another life every now and again for a few beers and a bite to eat, last time we met up I got to talking with one of them and he was moaning about how the wanted out of his job and would love to try something new just as I have done. To which I replied "come and work for me buddy" and I meant every word because he was always very hard working,conscientious and honest probably the best member of staff Id ever managed.

A few months have gone by and then out of the blue I get a text from him asking if I was serious he'd like to come and work with me for a few Saturdays to see if its something he could do and make a living out of.

Now I feel the business is at a pivot point, do I just say no more customers at the mo and just continue by myself or do I take someone on and continue to build the round?

Im not feeling the going down the route of employing someone ie holiday, wages, NI ect ect. So do I suggest he goes self employed and covers his own PLI ect and I just pay him a % of work carried out?

Another company in my area set up a franchise sort of set up where they put a couple of new branded vans on the road and agreed to supply the work and advertised a minimum of 24k a year. Has anybody got any experience having done this?

As always your opinions will be very much appreciated :grouphug:

Greener

Tough one! I had a mate help me and I was glad when he got a full time job. We lost customers through his :turd: work and he'd stand gassing to customers instead of grafting. I gave him 25% of what we earned. I wouldn't do it again, probably because I'm not at that time of life where I want it all. I'd employ my son though, but I'd be carrying him all day I reckon.

Give your mate a go but don't promise anything I'd say.

It's easier on your own

NEVER say no more customers

Just keep improving the quality of work and do the **** stuff less

Or sell it on

my opinion--you need to do it right , employ on the books . 2 reasons for this, 1, you having him fulltime with you means hes not really a subby,not in the long term 2 -the big reason,is if you make him go self employed and he then doesnt do his taxes right its YOU the taxman will come after. iv known several men [not in window cleaning] go under after this exact thing haPPENED , its amazing how much national insurance/tax can accrue in a year or so.

sure,you fear sorting out the tax but i discovered theres nothing to fear ,you register as an employer and hmrc sends you a disc

Mybe try making ur system 2 person users. U o backs he does front

Then after time if he is gd u can invest another van and put him out in it

It is hard to get gd staff do as u do

I have a 2nd van airing to go out but have been workin hard bringing in a lot of work. Also got a great guy to go in it And il send my worker who is 19out with him. As I've trained him up well

When u are maxed out on a 2 operator system. Is wen u buy second system

Also what hours do u work at the minite

my opinion--you need to do it right , employ on the books . 2 reasons for this, 1, you having him fulltime with you means hes not really a subby,not in the long term 2 -the big reason,is if you make him go self employed and he then doesnt do his taxes right its YOU the taxman will come after. iv known several men [not in window cleaning] go under after this exact thing haPPENED , its amazing how much national insurance/tax can accrue in a year or so.
sure,you fear sorting out the tax but i discovered theres nothing to fear ,you register as an employer and hmrc sends you a disc

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Hi @boarcity thanks for the info /emoticons/smile.png of somebody is self employed how would I be responsible for them not paying the tax?

Hi @boarcity thanks for the info /emoticons/smile.png of somebody is self employed how would I be responsible for them not paying the tax?

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if they are working for you as the main employer week in week out i bleve the only legal way is to hav them employed on the books. i think if you pay them + invoice and say its your responsibility to sort out the tax you are putting your head in the sand

Greener, the advice I have to offer reiterates what @boarcity has already said and the same that I have offered before.

When ever there is any form of dispute with HMRC there is no innocent till proven otherwise, you are guilty and then all the effort is on you to try to prove you did nothing wrong.

So many try to be clever and duck the responsibility by calling their employees 'Sub contractors' or 'Self employed' and so on when the truth of it is it is so simple to do it right and when you do it sets you in good standing to then expand properly as all the mechanisms are already in place to take on more staff.

When I was a sole trader I had an accountant to do all my end of year books, cost me £150 per year and never a problem with any filing or payments. When I employed he charged me £30 per month to run all my payroll, generate payslips, pay the PAYE deductions (tax, NI, pensions) etc etc and all I ever had to do was ping him a weekly email with the hours the lads had done.

Any accountant will give you a free 30 minute consultation and advise you on the best way forward and you will also find it handy as you will have someone to call up when you want to buy an expensive new piece of kit and want to know the best way to deduct it.

Always expand, do it right, do it legally.

P.S. if you do try to take him on 'Self Employed' how long before he sits there and says 'I'm doing all the damn paperwork etc what do I need Greener for? I'll set up myself' ?

Mybe try making ur system 2 person users. U o backs he does front
Then after time if he is gd u can invest another van and put him out in it

It is hard to get gd staff do as u do

I have a 2nd van airing to go out but have been workin hard bringing in a lot of work. Also got a great guy to go in it And il send my worker who is 19out with him. As I've trained him up well

When u are maxed out on a 2 operator system. Is wen u buy second system

Also what hours do u work at the minite

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Hi @peter rogers /emoticons/smile.png thanks for the good advise, I think your spot on ref the 2man set up and then invest in a van if it works out :thumbsup: I work Mon-Fri 9-4ish start at 9am as I drop my kids off at school

if they are working for you as the main employer week in week out i bleve the only legal way is to hav them employed on the books. i think if you pay them + invoice and say its your responsibility to sort out the tax you are putting your head in the sand

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Thanks @boarcity that makes perfect sense buddy

Greener, the advice I have to offer reiterates what @boarcity has already said and the same that I have offered before.
When ever there is any form of dispute with HMRC there is no innocent till proven otherwise, you are guilty and then all the effort is on you to try to prove you did nothing wrong.

So many try to be clever and duck the responsibility by calling their employees 'Sub contractors' or 'Self employed' and so on when the truth of it is it is so simple to do it right and when you do it sets you in good standing to then expand properly as all the mechanisms are already in place to take on more staff.

When I was a sole trader I had an accountant to do all my end of year books, cost me £150 per year and never a problem with any filing or payments. When I employed he charged me £30 per month to run all my payroll, generate payslips, pay the PAYE deductions (tax, NI, pensions) etc etc and all I ever had to do was ping him a weekly email with the hours the lads had done.

Any accountant will give you a free 30 minute consultation and advise you on the best way forward and you will also find it handy as you will have someone to call up when you want to buy an expensive new piece of kit and want to know the best way to deduct it.

Always expand, do it right, do it legally.

Click to expand...

Thanks @Green Pro Clean Ltd some sound advice as always /emoticons/smile.png I enrolled the services of an accountant at the end off 2015 to act on my behalf for the 2015/2016 tax year. I will contact him next week and enquirer what he has to offer. Im 100% confident I could grow the business to sustain an employee but just a bit apprehensive as to how to start with the number of customers i currently have, what I mean is this at the moment I have a great round that is growing daily and it wont be very long until I cant manage anymore by myself. However its that age old scenario what comes first - The customers or The employee???? ie Lets say I could take him on tomorrow as an employee with the customer base that i currently have, obviously he needs to be paid a wage which is going to eat into my own income until the business grows, so is it a case of just taking a hit on my own income short term and then focus, focus, focus on growing the business? I hope that makes sense

Sounds a bit of a silly question know Ive just read it back to myself LOL The Ideal situation I suppose is that he comes to work for me part time until the business grows enough to sustain us both.

Get him in day or two each week to start.

If he has holiday owed by current employer he can use that a day or two here and there so you can both get a feel of its going to work.

@Greener Maybe look at starting at 8 and paying a minder to drop them off. If u think bout it if uhave a staff member to both ya on glass at8. That's an extra 10 work hours a week and 40 odd a week. Hey that's an extra work week

Don't go down self employed route of staff

Thanks @Green Pro Clean Ltd some sound advice as always /emoticons/smile.png I enrolled the services of an accountant at the end off 2015 to act on my behalf for the 2015/2016 tax year. I will contact him next week and enquirer what he has to offer. Im 100% confident I could grow the business to sustain an employee but just a bit apprehensive as to how to start with the number of customers i currently have, what I mean is this at the moment I have a great round that is growing daily and it wont be very long until I cant manage anymore by myself. However its that age old scenario what comes first - The customers or The employee???? ie Lets say I could take him on tomorrow as an employee with the customer base that i currently have, obviously he needs to be paid a wage which is going to eat into my own income until the business grows, so is it a case of just taking a hit on my own income short term and then focus, focus, focus on growing the business? I hope that makes sense
Sounds a bit of a silly question know Ive just read it back to myself LOL The Ideal situation I suppose is that he comes to work for me part time until the business grows enough to sustain us both.

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Why not take him on and whenever you don't have enough work get him leafletting while you work

That's 1 way to grow the business quicker

if you sense the new employee likes to be in control ,you are in trouble. erly signs are being a few minutes late,in the 2nd week or even the 1st day ! ,if you let it go or laf it off -theyv won round 1 , then it ramps up and the power struggle begins . iv had at least ten workers in the last 5yrs,3 control freaks were amongst that lot and i learned that control freaks and me never work out

my opinion is you dont want a control freak in your business no matter how good they are at window cleaning you want workers who simply come along and give no grief.

the only good time that comes when youv a control freak is when you round on them and tell them point blank they are no good -this is usually when they decide the games over and its time to go.