Mains Booster Pump Problems...

I'm just going to vent off for a bit as my mains booster pump has packed up, I've been using a Clarke SPE800ss with the Clarke pump controller for only 4 weeks & now all i get is a loud agonising buzzing noise and the pump gets so hot you can't hold your hand on it & its stopped pumping.

Ive got a 4040 HF5 system with 11.5kg DI vessel which is working fine but needs a boost as my mains is at 38psi.

has anyone else had any issues with Mains pumps or can happily recommend one thats fit for 'our' purpose.  I rang one place up & they all but put the phone down and started telling me that I could only boost up to 1.5 bar from mains when I asked about a pump.

All inlet/outlet pipes have been checked independently for blockages & they're fine.

I've only had my static set up for the same period & up till now all was well, feels like money down the drain as I've probably got to send it back and go through to and fro with Machine Mart...Aargh!! 

Had enough messing about for one night.

Neilmnwc said:

I'm just going to vent off for a bit as my mains booster pump has packed up, I've been using a Clarke SPE800ss with the Clarke pump controller for only 4 weeks & now all i get is a loud agonising buzzing noise and the pump gets so hot you can't hold your hand on it & its stopped pumping.

Ive got a 4040 HF5 system with 11.5kg DI vessel which is working fine but needs a boost as my mains is at 38psi.

has anyone else had any issues with Mains pumps or can happily recommend one thats fit for 'our' purpose.  I rang one place up & they all but put the phone down and started telling me that I could only boost up to 1.5 bar from mains when I asked about a pump.

All inlet/outlet pipes have been checked independently for blockages & they're fine.

I've only had my static set up for the same period & up till now all was well, feels like money down the drain as I've probably got to send it back and go through to and fro with Machine Mart...Aargh!! 

Had enough messing about for one night.

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Yes, you need to take it back to Machine Mart. Our 'local' one has always gone the extra mile as far as service is concerned.

I don't know how the internals of the motor works but I expect that it has a large capacitor that stores current to kick start the motor on start-up. This could have failed.

Its not possible to manufacture a product that is perfect, especially on a mass production line. If the product was hand made then it would cost a lot more than it does. Manufacturers give a warranty on their products to cover faulty workmanship and/or parts.

And yes again, there are strict rules on boosting water pressure which the water boards enforce. In an extreme scenario with low pressure and flow, a booster pump could well cause pipework to collapse on the suction side of the pump and could also effect the supply to neighbouring properties if water supply and pressure is a local problem. Regulations (1999), state that you cannot pump more than 12l/min off the mains supply pipe. The person you were talking to could well have been referring to shower booster pumps so could have been a little confused not understanding the application. Salamander pumps used for boosting water pressure to the shower through a combi boiler work at low pressure and work within the guidelines of the regulations.

A booster pump on a 4040 system won't however draw that much more water as it boosts pressure provided you have the r/o set up correctly.

I also believe that this post should be in the window cleaning section, rather than under DIY tutorials. Maybe @Gav can kindly move it for us. Thanks.

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spruce said:

I also believe that this post should be in the window cleaning section, rather than under DIY tutorials. Maybe @Gav can kindly move it for us. Thanks

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Moved ?

Thanks for the reply @spruce, Machine Mart have already got back to me and advised. 

Thanks for clearing up about the regs too.

sorry for posting off topic.

Looking at the spec of the pump I would suggest it's not a continuous duty pump like the 4040 specific pumps are. I have the water genie 'genie in a box' pump and it boosts my pressure from around 40psi to just over 100psi. Although it's over double the price and you would need to get a flow controller (the one on your current Clarke pump would suffice) as well, I wouldn't use anything else now to be honest as it certainly is fit for purpose.


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AGlassAct said:

 I have the water genie 'genie in a box' pump and it boosts my pressure from around 40psi to just over 100psi.
 

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Would 40psi be the normal?

I don't even know what mine is...

Should get it checked somehow...

Spartan said:

Would 40psi be the normal?

I don't even know what mine is...

Should get it checked somehow...

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I got something like this of eBay my pressure is 65 psi

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neish-Tools-Mains-Water-Pressure-Gauge-0-10bar-3-4-BSP-Fitting-/302036248890?hash=item4652c3693a:g:fpQAAOSwHoFXqLcN

AGlassAct said:

Looking at the spec of the pump I would suggest it's not a continuous duty pump like the 4040 specific pumps are. I have the water genie 'genie in a box' pump and it boosts my pressure from around 40psi to just over 100psi. Although it's over double the price and you would need to get a flow controller (the one on your current Clarke pump would suffice) as well, I wouldn't use anything else now to be honest as it certainly is fit for purpose.


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I agree. Its not actually a booster pump. I use the SPE800 as a transfer pump but it has no pressure behind it.

Gardiners booster pump would be better as it has a higher delivery pressure. The only one GAPS recommended at one time was the Clarke CBM240E.

The 'trouble' with the Genie pump its its lack of controller. Its pricey to begin with. But if you want pricey, look on Grippa website under booster pumps.

Den said:

I got something like this of eBay my pressure is 65 psi

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Neish-Tools-Mains-Water-Pressure-Gauge-0-10bar-3-4-BSP-Fitting-/302036248890?hash=item4652c3693a:g:fpQAAOSwHoFXqLcN

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Cheers Den, i'll take a look at it.

so, is the water measured by a pressure (psi) or by delivery (litres per minute) ?

Spruce I see the one to answer this as he is a hive of knowledge but I think pressure whether air or water is measure in psi and also bar.

Spartan said:

Cheers Den, i'll take a look at it.

so, is the water measured by a pressure (psi) or by delivery (litres per minute) ?

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It will be psi or bar as @Densays. There are special 'cups' that measure the volume of water called Weir cups. But they are expensive for what they are.







To run a 4040 you need around 9 liters of water a minute. If you tap is delivering more than that then a booster pump will work fine.

Lets take my 4040 as an example. The water pressure in my tap is 50psi with the r/o connected up. The tap delivers 13 liters per minute of water. At 50 psi I get 2 liters of pure with 2 liters of waste as I've set it up that way. If I put a booster pump into my system then my pressure will increase as the pump is 'forcing' more water into the r/o. It's taking that extra water from what my tap already delivers. So the end result will be that my r/o will produce more pure per minute and more waste as well.But I will fill my IBC tank much faster.

So if my r/o is now using 9 liters of water per minute with the booster pump, I still have 4 liters left over to supply the rest of the house.

Pressure and flow aren't the same thing, but generally speaking and as far as we are concerned, increasing the pressure on the water will produce a faster flow of water through the hose. (There does come a time though when too much water is forced through a pipe and it becomes turbulent. Once this point is reached doubling water pressure doesn't increase the flow much.)

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Crumbs....this water lark is more complicated then i thought! 

Who knew??!! :4_joy:

Ordered one of those pressure gauge testers so i'll wait to see what it comes up at...

Thanks for your help Spruce & Den.

I did a quick calculation - i got 3.5 litres in 6 seconds so presumably that means 35 litres per minute...

AGlassAct said:

Looking at the spec of the pump I would suggest it's not a continuous duty pump like the 4040 specific pumps are. I have the water genie 'genie in a box' pump and it boosts my pressure from around 40psi to just over 100psi. Although it's over double the price and you would need to get a flow controller (the one on your current Clarke pump would suffice) as well, I wouldn't use anything else now to be honest as it certainly is fit for purpose.


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Thanks for the advice @AGlassAct and @spruce. TBH I bought the SPE800 as a mate had been using it for over a year with the same system without issue. Would I be right in thinking though that as my water pressure was nearly double his in the first place that my identical pump would be working much harder with the greater mains pressure (boosted his was still only 40psi)? 

Itll be something a save up for and get a decent one pretty sharp though so your input is appreciated. Ta.

If you need a booster pump Stuart turner pumps are top of range I have this one it is 6bar which is spot on for hf5 , this a bargain at the moment at plumbnation

Neilmnwc said:

Thanks for the advice @AGlassAct and @spruce. TBH I bought the SPE800 as a mate had been using it for over a year with the same system without issue. Would I be right in thinking though that as my water pressure was nearly double his in the first place that my identical pump would be working much harder with the greater mains pressure (boosted his was still only 40psi)? 

Itll be something a save up for and get a decent one pretty sharp though so your input is appreciated. Ta.

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I honestly don't know the answer to that one. I've read conflicting reports, some agreeing with this statement and other saying the opposite. Logic tells me that if the pressure is higher the pump won't work as hard, but I've seen specs that advise their pump will boost existing pressure by X.

Over the years we have read of a few windies who, according to them, have used similar pumps successfully.

Here some useful info

http://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/flow_control_flow_transfer/pumps/booster_pumps

1pablo said:

If you need a booster pump Stuart turner pumps are top of range I have this one it is 6bar which is spot on for hf5 , this a bargain at the moment at plumbnationView attachment 10262

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If you look at the installation manual, page 8 of 16, 4.17 under cold water installation - Do not connect this pump to the mains supply. Why not? The installation manual and the advertising spiel differ.

Its a good price though. I've never heard of a windie using one before - you are the first.

The specs seem to indicate to me that the 6 bar is the maximum applied pressure to the pumps inlet.

Flomate Mains Boost pump is designed to be connected directly to the incoming mains and will deliver an additional 1.5 bar pressure to the existing mains pressure and a maximum flow rate of 12 litres minute.

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View attachment 247594-Automatic-Flow-Switch-Pumps-IG.pdf

I have the Clarke  CBM240E and its fantastic. Fills my 500ltr tank in 2/1/2 hours

Spartan said:

Would 40psi be the normal?

I don't even know what mine is...

Should get it checked somehow...

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Every house is different even in the same area

Me and @Adams0211 are on the same supplier in the same town and his is 35 so needs booster

Mine is 70-75 depending on when i measure it and need no pump

Dave B said:

Every house is different even in the same area

Me and @Adams0211 are on the same supplier in the same town and his is 35 so needs booster

Mine is 70-75 depending on when i measure it and need no pump

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Very true. It also depends where you are on the supply line.

They are building a new estate with 149 houses next to ours. I hope it doesn't impact on our water pressure.

Since the introduction of water meters (a large portion of our estate had them fitted voluntarily to allegedly save money) our water pressure has gone up. 

However, water pressure drops when we have a hot dry spell (like we are experiencing now) which must be due to a greater demand for water.

In this case its better for me to process water overnight.

70psi sounds good. How does this compare to bar? I don't even know what that means, lol.

We have a meter out the front of our property but aren't billed per use, Just a flat fee.....

Presumably once they see I'm sucking the road dry they'll bang me straight on a meter!!!

Hmmmm...

Spartan said:

70psi sounds good. How does this compare to bar? I don't even know what that means, lol.

We have a meter out the front of our property but aren't billed per use, Just a flat fee.....

Presumably once they see I'm sucking the road dry they'll bang me straight on a meter!!!

Hmmmm...

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14.5 psi = 1 bar or to be accurate 14.504 psi but who cares about the 4 lol

Okay, so Dave's 70-75psi is approx 5 bar.

I think I got it, Cheers lads.

I don't think I've ever learnt so much about water!  :4_joy: