Safety first, ladder laws

Just wondering if anyone has links or info on the current legislation on the use of ladders whilst window cleaning. Ive read the 2005 legislation but it seems quite vague to me. Something i thought strange is that insurance companies don't use the legislation more often for public liability for window cleaners, for instance legislation says you need to have a safe solution and the last senario is using ladders to get access to a window. Surely an insurance company could use that against you in a claim. I use wfp, i used to use ladders, but after doing a iosh course i invested in wfp. Whilst researching online i found a very interesting article from jeremy vine about his window cleaner falling at his house and jeremy was to blame

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It's all too ambiguous for me. I once phoned up my insurance company as asked them about wind speed and ladder working, they told me that I should do a safety assessment before, and if I came off my ladder as a result of the wind then the assessment was wrong and I wouldn't be covered. Very useful!!

Okay 's my previous post just disappeared hate my new phone lol. Basically HSE state that ladders should be used as a last resort ie if you have wfp then that should be used unless a specific reason not to. It does suggest then if you have no wfp then you can use ladders as much as you like. I'm guessing but this is where the insurance will question the use of ladder and decide on how appropriate the use is. I don't think that there is anything really clear cut

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All my insurances are absolutely fine with using ladders...
I'm 100% trad as all my customers don't rate the wfp (might be a northern thing)
As long as you have assessed each pitch and seen it to be safe at the time then that's it, they assured me there would be no issues.

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bigtaffster said:

All my insurances are absolutely fine with using ladders...
I'm 100% trad as all my customers don't rate the wfp (might be a northern thing)
As long as you have assessed each pitch and seen it to be safe at the time then that's it, they assured me there would be no issues.

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But if you have an accident doesn't that imply your assessment was wrong which could give them an "out "


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Cambridge Cleaner said:

But if you have an accident doesn't that imply your assessment was wrong which could give them an "out "


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See this is what I thought, based on the iosh training. You'd need to do a thought out risk assessment each time you ascend the ladder, based on, wind speed, ground moisture, ground level, position of ladder (i.e. Adjacent to road), falling equipment, safety cordon around ladder, high visibility vest and someone footing the ladder. If you did all those things before each climb insurance should allow you to claim, however if you fell and had life changing injuries or died your customer would be liable, therefore insurance wouldn't pay out and police may charge for manslaughter. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9466514/Jeremy-Vne.html

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public liability doesn't cover you for injury either way that's a different policy all together

Clisty1989 said:

public liability doesn't cover you for injury either way that's a different policy all together

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Mine does, but that of course assumes no one else is liable

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wilkswindowcleaners said:

See this is what I thought, based on the iosh training. You'd need to do a thought out risk assessment each time you ascend the ladder, based on, wind speed, ground moisture, ground level, position of ladder (i.e. Adjacent to road), falling equipment, safety cordon around ladder, high visibility vest and someone footing the ladder. If you did all those things before each climb insurance should allow you to claim, however if you fell and had life changing injuries or died your customer would be liable, therefore insurance wouldn't pay out and police may charge for manslaughter. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9466514/Jeremy-Vne.html

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Quality !! I'll claim off the customer [emoji106]
Might cancel my insurance and save some pennies [emoji3]

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bigtaffster said:

Quality !! I'll claim off the customer [emoji106]
Might cancel my insurance and save some pennies [emoji3]

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[emoji23] [emoji14]

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See - this is why I like to leave the actual work to the professionals, and just get on with the easy job of racking up the customers  :2_grinning:

Look on hse website

As long as you inspect your ladder regularly and are sensible it is perfectly fine in their eyes as they state not using ladders when feasible

If you are trad they can't say you are wrong using ladders as the short duration in any one position negates the possibility of using towers etc due to cost and the nature of the job

I may be wrong but i am sure under 20 minutes in 1 placement is perfectly fine to them

If hse are fine with it then insurance surely can't argue with it

Dave B said:

Look on hse website
As long as you inspect your ladder regularly and are sensible it is perfectly fine in their eyes as they state not using ladders when feasible
If you are trad they can't say you are wrong using ladders as the short duration in any one position negates the possibility of using towers etc due to cost and the nature of the job
I may be wrong but i am sure under 20 minutes in 1 placement is perfectly fine to them
If hse are fine with it then insurance surely can't argue with it

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I have, this leads me to believe using a ladder would be too much of a faff health and safety wise to warrant using one. I even saw a court case where the owner of a window cleaner was criticised for not providing inflatable crash mats for his workers. He got 5 years for manslaughter

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If you have employees it gets a bit technical but fine for a 1 man band

Gleaming insurance even cover me for working at height off ladders although i am wfp now

Dave B said:

If you have employees it gets a bit technical but fine for a 1 man band

Gleaming insurance even cover me for working at height off ladders although i am wfp now

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think its 25m if I'm not mistaken, screw that!

Haha  yes it is 25m..wouldn't do it on a ladder but with harness and caribener not an issue lol

Dave B said:

Haha  yes it is 25m..wouldn't do it on a ladder but with harness and caribener not an issue lol

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id do it on a harness, bosuns chair, boom lift etc. Just not on a ladder or a cradle

love to do the abseil course, just none by me and not enough money in it

I did a course in Derbyshire in the forces and then fell in love with climbing and caveing

175 foot head down with leg wrapped round rope sorts the men from the boys lol

I have also done the same run down a rock face that the marines do during selection to show faith in your teammates

It was more of a voluntary course seeing as i was reme but still was very thorough 

Dave B said:

I did a course in Derbyshire in the forces and then fell in love with climbing and caveing

175 foot head down with leg wrapped round rope sorts the men from the boys lol

I have also done the same run down a rock face that the marines do during selection to show faith in your teammates

It was more of a voluntary course seeing as i was reme but still was very thorough 

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i did it too. Was attached to 3 cdo brigade for a bit so did it as a "taster"