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Roland

Which Sand?

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Roland

The price of Kiln Dried Sand seems to have gone up by about 50% round here so have been looking at the alternatives.

 

I have had a look at the setting sand on offer by SIKA but they seem to be very expensive, about £30 for 15kg and also looked at the Weed Free Sand by Tarmac that looks interesting but not sure how it works.

 

Is anyone using the setting sand and if they are which brand do you use?

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Cristian

You can get the sika setting sand cheaper but you have to buy in bulk. 

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£20.66 a bag in singles, not sure on delivery cost, a pallet would be much cheaper, just pass on the benefits and the costs to the customer!! :1f44d:

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S-boy

I notices today drive I done two month ago already has greenery coming back through with kiln dried not impressed like and feel horrendous about it actually so definitely looking for advice on different type of sand aswell

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Cristian

The sika setting sand works but is extra cost , you have to add it into quote! Explain to customer what you are using and the benefits of it after you clean their pavers. Most folk are going to go with it, the kiln dry has only benefits when the pavers are first laid , then it's all down hill from there! 

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Roland

That looks a good option and Jewson sell it but their website is down at the moment so will check their price tomorrow.

 

How many sq meters do you get from a bag on normal block paving?

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Cristian

Think it's the same kind of coverage as kds, will all depend on joint depth and width. These bags are 20 kg 

Edited by Cristian

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Ben23

Ive been using the no weed sand by dansand latley as an upgrade on kds, you can get it from wickes for £9 per bag if buying over 5 bags and its pretty good at keeping the weeds back assuming you thoroughly scour the joints of roots before laying it, have used the dansand setting sand but dont fancy if for large areas as it seems to leave a bit of a white/light residue after sweeping in so I dont trust it completley. if you use KDS explain to your customer that they will need to keep on top of weeds and that you dont reccommend it without sealing to lock it in place, its not really upselling so much as presenting different options with the plus and minus points of each and letting them make thier mind up, never claim that kds will not become infested with weeds if left to its own devices, my line is that it'll stay clean of course for some time, however weeds can and will grow out of a crack in a rock if given a chance so I never claim an indefinate total weed free solution

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K in Kent

KDS is an integral part of the construction of block paving and fundamental to its ongoing strength and effectiveness. It creates friction between blocks allowing for weight to be spread over entire surface and not concentrated onto individual blocks. This is what happens when sand erodes and blocks not designed to take weight of vehicles and so loosen or break and has domino effect. Next thing u know u need a new drive.

Therefore it is an essential requirement throughout life of the paving,not just at the start.

 

Weeds very rarely grow up through properly filled joints, they grow INTO them either cos sand is too soft , or into cracks or cos dirt builds up on top and weeds grow into that.

Only likes of Japanese Knotweed are strong enough to grow through.

If sand is properly sealed/stabilised/hardened weeds shouldn't be able to grow into it cos too hard for them to penetrate.

 

However,if dirt is allowed to accumulate weeds will grow into THAT regardless of sealant or any self setting sand.

For that reason it would be foolish to ever give weed free guarantees cos u have no control over future maintenance.

The most that can be said is properly sealed and stabilised KDS or Sika, Dansand etc will inhibit weed growth - not guaranteed to prevent it. Customers need to be told it's down to them to regularly sweep surface or wash down with soapy water to keep weeds away

 

If u want to ensure nothing can grow into KDS mix about 1kg of salt per bag and it works a treat. I do it all the time and salt costs about 50p /kg or less.

 

Good quality sealant also has additional benefits such as protection against oil stains etc.

And obviously it's a matter for the individual but not sealing is lost opportunity to earn some decent money.

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Ben23

Totally agree with that K, never give assurances of a weed free future, Im always brutally honest and it pays more than bullshitting them. on the notion of salt, I had considered that but was worried about it being soluble and making the sand sink after a while and also does it leave noticeable whiteness after rain/drying? if not then I really fancy giving that a go  

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K in Kent

Yes exactly cos unless you're a cowboy if u don't deliver on what u say u have to go round and sort it out.

Besides,if they make the effort it should stay clear and if not you've put the onus on them.

 

No has no effect on the sand and the amount you're adding isn't enough to affect density of the sand if well mixed.

It's not a catch-all cos some joints are bound to end up with no salt but if keep topping up with salt when u add new sand it does work nicely.

I buy those tubes of table salt in Tesco,think might be under 1kg actually - 750g maybe?

Anyway,I work on basis of 1 per 20kg of KDS.

 

I always go over the blocks with a leaf blower before sealing to make sure nothing left on surface so never had a problem with anything on surface....but if soluble it would just dissolve in rain anyway.

 

 

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Roland

Thanks for all your replies, very interesting.

 

I am going to give the Sika Setting Sand a try on some clay blocks I don't want to seal.

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windowsurfer

I tried some of the sika setting sand, as part of moboblock was on quite an inclibe n didnt want sand being washed away.
I made a school boy error n tried putting sand on later in the day as it was a roaster, but must have been wet a little, the sand kind of coated the blocks whitish where i put it on the incline. I put kds on flat area, much simpler. Went to clean wibdows the othee day n blocks still have some whitish covering, so i wouldnt use it again, unless had a bit more practice. When i went back to resand it was windy, leaves n bits blowing about n goubg ibro joints, not easy to do when weather fighting you.
Oh the customer was very happy, as hadnt ever been cleaned n only charged £200 as first attempt.

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Roland

Don't like the sound of that but will try it anyway.

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RobertM
On 05/07/2017 at 23:12, K in Kent said:

Yes exactly cos unless you're a cowboy if u don't deliver on what u say u have to go round and sort it out.

Besides,if they make the effort it should stay clear and if not you've put the onus on them.

 

No has no effect on the sand and the amount you're adding isn't enough to affect density of the sand if well mixed.

It's not a catch-all cos some joints are bound to end up with no salt but if keep topping up with salt when u add new sand it does work nicely.

I buy those tubes of table salt in Tesco,think might be under 1kg actually - 750g maybe?

Anyway,I work on basis of 1 per 20kg of KDS.

 

I always go over the blocks with a leaf blower before sealing to make sure nothing left on surface so never had a problem with anything on surface....but if soluble it would just dissolve in rain anyway.

 

 

 

@K in Kent

 

when you mention salt - i started thinking about vinegar ......yeah its Saturday and I'm having me usual fish&chips!

 

well instead of treating the cleaned paving with something like glyphosate weed killer - its debatable at the mo if this glyphosate is carcinogenic.

 

anyway I've sprayed vinegar on weeds before and its killed em!

what are ya thoughts, cos this would be a more organic solution to the custard.

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Neilmnwc

Hi guys, I'm working through a quote for a customer who want their entire 315 square meters of  brick weave driveway cleaned, treated sanded and sealed.

They know the benefits of chemical treatment, sealing etc, it's just a larger area than I have cleaned and I've never sealed/sanded before.

 

I don't want to use KDS & & plan to use Sika Narrow joint sand & set.  I know they can't give an accurate coverage rate but wondered if anyone can give me a steer on how many 20kg bags to go for?

 

Cheers

 

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K in Kent

at least 10

why not use KDS?

Edited by K in Kent

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Neilmnwc
1 hour ago, K in Kent said:

at least 10

why not use KDS?

Only because I didn't want it washing away too quickly, would the resin sealer do the job with kds then?

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Neilmnwc
1 minute ago, Alec said:


Resin sealer makes it rock hard mate.


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Nice one thanks for that, I just didn't want to do it half baked. Glad the sealer will work alone. 

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K in Kent

you'll need about £500's worth if using quality resin sealer like Resiblock Superior - that's one coat but will be enough

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Neilmnwc
On 31/07/2017 at 00:54, K in Kent said:

you'll need about £500's worth if using quality resin sealer like Resiblock Superior - that's one coat but will be enough

Cheers, K. Going on a rough average that would end up being about 75L, does that seem about right?

I'll stick some before and after pics    up once it's done. Thanks for the heads up.

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K in Kent

Well 60 ish. It wasn't meant to be precise, just approximate to give u an idea.

 I was working on the basis 5sqm per litre using Resiblock Superior - matt or gloss

5litre tin covers 25sqm and costs about £55 from Resiblock but about £45 here ...http://www.sealantsandtoolsdirect.co.uk/

20 litres covers 100sqm

x3 = 60 litres for 300 sqm

 

12 tins at £45 each = £540

 

Should be noted that officially it's a 2 coat system according to Resiblock and 1st coat application is recommended at less than 5sqm / litre.

But in my opinion these application rates are well excessive and one coat is all u need....and if it were me I'd be getting MORE than 5sqm / litre out of it.

If u only want to stabilise sand those rates are plenty. Only caveat I would add is that if want full gloss effect then that's a slightly different matter, but in my experience 2nd coat doesn't make much difference to shine - damp/wet look would be better description than gloss

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Neilmnwc

Thanks Alec and K in Kent for your help earlier in the year pricing and getting the quantities right. You were both spot on with your advice, the job went well & happy customers.



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K in Kent
8 hours ago, Neilmnwc said:

Thanks Alec and K in Kent for your help earlier in the year pricing and getting the quantities right. You were both spot on with your advice, the job went well & happy customers.



Sent from my iPhone using Window Cleaning Forums

Cheers Neil, nice of you to say so.

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