WFP systems

Evening guys.

Have posted a couple of times, relatively new on here so please bare with me.

So I'm looking at how to equip my van and if I need to buy a "all guns blazing" system, or if there is a much cheaper way of doing this. (By all guns blazing I mean a all in one system with the additional gas heater extra)

Obviously as a newbie I've looked around at a few companies to see what systems are available and at what kind of prices they are asking. An example of this would be x-line.

Now, ideally I'd like to invest in some decent equipment to get me up and running, I have a small amount of money put away, enough to buy this wfp system BUT and it's a big BUT they are quoting more than £8000 for a 500L RO system along with the gas hot water unit. They do the fitting too. Does that sound about right?

Or am I being an absolutely idiot and able to get something like this a lot cheaper? A friend of a friend who works as a window cleaner told me you can set yourself up with a decent system for a few thousand.. and suggested I bought a water tank on eBay which would save me a lot of money. Would I then need to buy the rest of the kit individually and install myself?

Obviously when I began looking into WFPs I came across various companies with all in one systems and that looked like the only way to do it.

Could anyone point me in the right direction please? I understand I may come across very naive for asking these questions.. but I'd rather speak to you guys than speak to a salesman and be told I need their system.

Many thanks and any help appreciated, (**** taking - not so much). Ha- cheers!

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If you're a total numpty like me and have no handyman skills then a factory fitted system, without hot water is the only route you have. If you can do basic plumbing and electrics then there are loads of threads on here showing how to fully kit out your van for around £1k

Ryan. A word to the wise! Xlines aftsr sales is none existence in their vocabulary. Do your homework on building one yourself and with the money you save you would be able to build two.. and build it to your own speck etc.. hope this helps

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If you ain't a diy guy then some lads have bought a Facelift Compact 325 from the http://windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk which doesn't come in much more expensive than setting up diy if you're a complete novice as the tank and all the fittings including a hose reel are included for £954 with the vat. 

The next expense would be a RO for producing the pure water this all depends on what your tap water tds is as to what ro you will need to buy. 

And of course you need to buy a decent pole which would be a SLX form http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk , All in you are still looking at around £1,400-500 

if you asked five window cleaners as to what would be best for you you would get five different answers mate,all may be correct but to make more of an informed opinion you'd be wiser to say where you are in the uk,your tap tds if known

what size van you have at the moment and any future plans to upgrade/buy a bigger van

do you plan to stay solo?

how much water do you think you may use?

are you going to do windows only or branch out into pressure washing/softwashing or facia and conservatory cleaning

outside tap or buy the water in?

all these questions give a better idea of something more suitable to your needs

Do you have any customers yet? How do you know you're going to enjoy window cleaning?

Why not buy a backpack and a trolley to start off with.... then invest in a van mount later on down the line. Then at least you don't risk wasting £8,000. Even if you do go ahead and invest in a van mount later on the backpack will still prove invaluable for backs of terraced houses etc....

Spend your money on advertising! Strap a tank down in the back of a van, buy a pump box, reel hose and pole etc and away you go!!

I am no DIY expert but was able to fit my own system which is working well. I would suggest most people can wire up a battery to pump/controller circuit to get going. My one man set up is 450L DI only and everything came in under £1k easy including a Gardiner's pole. All the necesary info to do this is on this site and we'd all be happy to point you to certain threads or help trouble shoot.

If you are set on hot water then I would suggest it becomes more complicated but you could arrange someone to fit a hot water upgrade although this opens up a few more options to consider...

Hawke said:

I am no DIY expert but was able to fit my own system which is working well. I would suggest most people can wire up a battery to pump/controller circuit to get going. My one man set up is 450L DI only and everything came in under £1k easy including a Gardiner's pole. All the necesary info to do this is on this site and we'd all be happy to point you to certain threads or help trouble shoot.
 
If you are set on hot water then I would suggest it becomes more complicated but you could arrange someone to fit a hot water upgrade although this opens up a few more options to consider...

Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply.

I feel I'm along the same lines- by no means a DIY expert but with a bit of guidance I think I could get something together. Where did you buy your parts from? I'd be looking at something similar to what you have, not desperate for an RO system as relatively soft water in my area.

The hot water I think would be an advantage and I do have a plumber friend, who may be able to help out on that one.




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solarpanelcleaningltd said:

Spend your money on advertising! Strap a tank down in the back of a van, buy a pump box, reel hose and pole etc and away you go!!

Click to expand...

I think any money I can save and and put towards advertising the better to be honest. Over time if successful I can look at a better system but to get me started I just need something that does the job and invest in getting the customers in in the first place.


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You might want to try cold water cleaning first - I think the majority of wfp's here use cold water. 

While it seems hot water is definitely better, its not a necessity and you'll find both the initial outlay and the running costs are quite high.

A wfp setup is basically tank, pump, battery, controller, reel

Not much more to it really

A basic system can come in at a couple of hundred quid and does the same job as an expensive system

Even the most inept diy'er can manage connecting 3 red and 3 black wires and a couple of hozelock connectors

Hot water if needed can be done for £100 ish also

There is a thread somewhere on here by @Green Pro Clean Ltd i think of that setup

Use the search feature on here as there have been a few threads about it

Cookie said:

Do you have any customers yet? How do you know you're going to enjoy window cleaning?
 
Why not buy a backpack and a trolley to start off with.... then invest in a van mount later on down the line. Then at least you don't risk wasting £8,000. Even if you do go ahead and invest in a van mount later on the backpack will still prove invaluable for backs of terraced houses etc....

Click to expand...

Not as yet, but I haven't actually started up officially. I have people interested and enough to make me go for it. I'm currently self employed doing gardening and have enough work on that side of things to keep me safe financially to start up.

I think your suggestion of a backpack or trolley system is a great idea, that could well be something to look into. My main worry is spending more than I need to to get me going, especially as like you say it may not work out the way I'm planning.


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Part Timer said:

If you're a total numpty like me and have no handyman skills then a factory fitted system, without hot water is the only route you have. If you can do basic plumbing and electrics then there are loads of threads on here showing how to fully kit out your van for around £1k

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

What kit do you have may I ask? And what did you spend roughly?


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CleanerWindows said:

Ryan. A word to the wise! Xlines aftsr sales is none existence in their vocabulary. Do your homework on building one yourself and with the money you save you would be able to build two.. and build it to your own speck etc.. hope this helps

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Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

That is a concern of mine, if I have problems I would have to go back to them and if they aren't interested then I'll become pretty stuffed. A lot of the replies have suggested building my own, like you say I'll have to really get my DIY skills up to scratch. But atleast I'll understand the system better.

Did you also create your own WFP system?


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Iron Giant said:

If you ain't a diy guy then some lads have bought a Facelift Compact 325 from the http://windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk which doesn't come in much more expensive than setting up diy if you're a complete novice as the tank and all the fittings including a hose reel are included for £954 with the vat. 

The next expense would be a RO for producing the pure water this all depends on what your tap water tds is as to what ro you will need to buy. 

And of course you need to buy a decent pole which would be a SLX form http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk , All in you are still looking at around £1,400-500 

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply and some really great pointers there.

I'm up for learning and trying to put something together myself, however if that's a similar price to the system you mentioned I think it's a no brainier. Obviously as you say the pure water system would be the next up. Potentially don't need RO, in a relatively soft water area but I've read that the RO system proves cost effective over time. Is this only true in harder water areas and not so much in soft water areas like mine?

£1500 sounds a lot lot better than £8000 anyway!


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kevinc250 said:

if you asked five window cleaners as to what would be best for you you would get five different answers mate,all may be correct but to make more of an informed opinion you'd be wiser to say where you are in the uk,your tap tds if known
what size van you have at the moment and any future plans to upgrade/buy a bigger van
do you plan to stay solo?
how much water do you think you may use?
are you going to do windows only or branch out into pressure washing/softwashing or facia and conservatory cleaning
outside tap or buy the water in?
all these questions give a better idea of something more suitable to your needs

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply and advice, I'll make sure I'm more specific in the future.

Like you've mentioned, I've had a lot of various replies but in general the idea is to probably try and build my own to begin with and get me up and running.

I live in the south west, which is apparently a soft water area, although you wouldn't believe it looking at the state of my kettle.

I have a ford transit, so I'm looking at systems that can hold around 500L of water. I think to begin with that's probably way more than I need but I'd rather get something bigger rather than change it over after 6 months.

To begin with I'd start with just windows, also the odd pressure washing job if I can get them in. I haven't looked into facia/soffit/guttering cleaning, can I use the same equipment for this as I would with the windows- wfp and different brush? (Forgive my naivety if that's a stupid question)

Was unaware of being able to buy in water, is this common and who would do this rather than use a tap at home to fill the tank?

Sorry for long reply, but I really do appreciate your time and help.




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RyanJfifer said:

Thanks for the reply and some really great pointers there.

I'm up for learning and trying to put something together myself, however if that's a similar price to the system you mentioned I think it's a no brainier. Obviously as you say the pure water system would be the next up. Potentially don't need RO, in a relatively soft water area but I've read that the RO system proves cost effective over time. Is this only true in harder water areas and not so much in soft water areas like mine?

£1500 sounds a lot lot better than £8000 anyway!


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Click to expand...

I live in a soft water area my tap tds ranges between 42-65 and I have found it a lot cheaper having a RO which cost £180, Were as I was double DI at one point and the annual cost of resin was going to hit around £320 and the DI vessels cost over a £100 as well 

RyanJfifer said:

Thanks for the reply.

What kit do you have may I ask? And what did you spend roughly?


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Click to expand...

650l hot water R/O Van system with booster pump from Pure Freedom. They fully fitted it and even supplied me with fibre glass poles :1f633:  including a 45' one, now that was heavy. I think it was circa £8k, the poles were about £2k. This was Jan 2011, poles are a lot cheaper nowadays. 

I was the same as you in the fact I had another job earning enough money to make it work in time rather than the majority on here that have had to do it the hard way in the fact it was their only earner. 

If I were you, and had the room I would get a tank fitted in the van with controllers and get the R/O in the garage. Unless you're doing a lot of coastal work I wouldn't get a hot water system initially. 

RyanJfifer said:

Thank you for your reply.

I feel I'm along the same lines- by no means a DIY expert but with a bit of guidance I think I could get something together. Where did you buy your parts from? I'd be looking at something similar to what you have, not desperate for an RO system as relatively soft water in my area.

The hot water I think would be an advantage and I do have a plumber friend, who may be able to help out on that one.




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Click to expand...

What van have you got? Its no good looking at a 500 liter system if your van only has a payload of 600kgs.

I think you need to start with a basics first tbh. Hot water isn't essential - I've been cleaning wfp for 12 years without it.

I have a 2 man diesel heater in pieces waiting to be reassembled, but there is no urgency. At one time the desire (not need) for warm water was to keep the hoses supple in winter. Over the years the 'quality' of the hose we buy is better suited to the cold as well so don't become as stiff as they once did.

Marketing by sales company's focus on creating a need for the product they sell. Sometimes you don't even know you needed something until you listened to the spiel. "You wouldn't wash your dishes in cold water, would you? So why do you wash windows in cold water then?"

If the temperatures are too cold then you can't clean windows safely anyway. Having hot water isn't going to change that much. In 12 years we have only had 3 instances of water freezing on the glass.

The first was a north facing conservatory. We now clean that house in the afternoon in winter.

The second was council building we clean and this was between Christmas and New Year when the offices were shut and the heating off. The heating was never off before and hasn't been off since.

The third was a holiday home where the boiler had broken down which we didn't know when we started.

The last 2 where one offs. The first was an easy fix.

Grippa tank supply systems you can fit yourself with instructions. Purefreedom also do the same.

.