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benz vs farm hypo 12345567

tench0771

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devon
how do you lads compair the to is the benz as good or beta im looking at the price and farm hypo with clever wash works out a lot cheeper it seems but benz may have a secrurt up there sleve hence the price or not !!?

 
Benz also contains sodium hydroxide from memory which does increase the effectiveness. It is also designed for the purpose so your insurance will cover its use.

On my policy at least when using a chemical I have to use it as per the label, COSHH etc

 
i will try some on the next job to see what its like alan aka smurf i rember him saying its like pi   sss  compaired to farm hypo but ill make that jugment my self i ges 

 
It's only hypo with their own surfactant added

If worried mate buy 1 drum and use that for all your home made mixes

Any issues show them the benz drum you are " using"  :1f602:

 
It's only hypo with their own surfactant added
If worried mate buy 1 drum and use that for all your home made mixes
Any issues show them the benz drum you are " using"  :1f602:
Funny enough my insurance said home mix is fine red label with surfactant added at home

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Sodium Hydorxide improves the effectiveness of Sodium Hypochlorite and is the other main ingredient in blackwash. It does also contain a surfactant.

Who are you with for insurance Tench? I need to get on board with them.

benz SDS part.JPG

 
Personally I wouldn’t pay there exorbitant prices it’s only hypo with there surficant added you can do the same yourself for a fraction of the price the mdsa data sheet you get with it will cover you for any job you are likely to do , or it has us anyway look on the internet it’s very easy to get the information required , oviously you need the appropriate ppe for the job you are doing but that’s the same with Benz 

 
With a lot of this stuff it's not a problem until something goes wrong and there is a claim. Then they are looking for any reason to not cover you. I must admit I must have used about 4000l of farm hypo last year but it is always worth knowing exactly where you stand on the legal and insurance situations.

 
I prefer to keep hydroxide and hypoclorite seperate as they have different uses for me

Hydroxide on wooden fences etc and hypo on concrete, render etc

Hydroxide i find is a bit kinder to wood (or sodium percarbonate if i have time to take on the job)

Didn't realise they had mixed both in blackwash

 
I prefer to keep hydroxide and hypoclorite seperate as they have different uses for me

Hydroxide on wooden fences etc and hypo on concrete, render etc

Hydroxide i find is a bit kinder to wood (or sodium percarbonate if i have time to take on the job)

Didn't realise they had mixed both in blackwash
All sorts of interesting information hidden in MSDS/ SDS sheets once you know what to look out for.  :1f609:

 
Sodium Hydorxide improves the effectiveness of Sodium Hypochlorite and is the other main ingredient in blackwash. It does also contain a surfactant.

Who are you with for insurance Tench? I need to get on board with them.

View attachment 12616




That doesnt make good reading does it 5-10 % consentration is a big difference. 

Sodium hydroxide in 0.5 % is not going to do a lot when you then dilute it to there recommended rate , I personally think it’s a gimmick to get you to buy the only approved hypo cleaning agent : at a grossly exajerated price but I guess a lot must buy it as they are still in buisness , by doing a bit of reaserch it’s easy to make your own far cheaper that will do just as good a job , but it’s up to everyone to make up there own minds what they want to use just think that Benz play on the scare factor to get the less informed to buy there product : cost wise I cannot see any decent sized company buying it as it’s to expensive to use most big firms I know buy hypo in 1000 ltr ibc tanks and mix there own , Ime not knocking Benz products as they do what they say on the tin but it’s just way to expensive for what it is and people need to know that 

 
With a lot of this stuff it's not a problem until something goes wrong and there is a claim. Then they are looking for any reason to not cover you. I must admit I must have used about 4000l of farm hypo last year but it is always worth knowing exactly where you stand on the legal and insurance situations.








What can can go wrong ? If used according to the mdsa data sheet you are fine been using it for years never had a problem but you do have to be careful with it especially when mixing it 

 
That doesnt make good reading does it 5-10 % consentration is a big difference. 

Sodium hydroxide in 0.5 % is not going to do a lot when you then dilute it to there recommended rate , I personally think it’s a gimmick to get you to buy the only approved hypo cleaning agent : at a grossly exajerated price but I guess a lot must buy it as they are still in buisness , by doing a bit of reaserch it’s easy to make your own far cheaper that will do just as good a job , but it’s up to everyone to make up there own minds what they want to use just think that Benz play on the scare factor to get the less informed to buy there product : cost wise I cannot see any decent sized company buying it as it’s to expensive to use most big firms I know buy hypo in 1000 ltr ibc tanks and mix there own , Ime not knocking Benz products as they do what they say on the tin but it’s just way to expensive for what it is and people need to know that 
 The SDS sheet is there should something go wrong so that people know how to treat it not to give you an exact breakdown of ingredients and concentrations and only covers the potentially hazardous components.

 
What can can go wrong ? If used according to the mdsa data sheet you are fine been using it for years never had a problem but you do have to be careful with it especially when mixing it 
Accidents happen to everyone. Splash in the eye, soaked through gloves, leaking fitting on the pump that pops off while under pressure at exactly the wrong moment.

If COSHH is applied when using hypo strictly speaking benz is better because it can achieve the same results at lower concentrations with less hazard and risk to the applicator (person) and the environment.

 
All sorts of interesting information hidden in MSDS/ SDS sheets once you know what to look out for.  :1f609:
I know as I am a bit of a chemist when it comes to mixing chems for different purposes but never read the sheets for blackwash as never used it as I prefer to make my own mix

Interesting though and I'm gonna look up the reason for adding hydroxide so I can see if there is any benefit

 
Accidents happen to everyone. Splash in the eye, soaked through gloves, leaking fitting on the pump that pops off while under pressure at exactly the wrong moment.

If COSHH is applied when using hypo strictly speaking benz is better because it can achieve the same results at lower concentrations with less hazard and risk to the applicator (person) and the environment.
I wouldn't say the same results at less concentration as I would only use a certain percent mix for a specific job whichever make I used

Blackwash at 10:1 for a 1% mix I think it is has the same active hypo as swimming pool hypo and surfactant mixed to 1%

Appropriate ppe needs to be observed for each job to minimise risks also 

 
 The SDS sheet is there should something go wrong so that people know how to treat it not to give you an exact breakdown of ingredients and concentrations and only covers the potentially hazardous components.






Yes yes I understand that but it gives you a breakdown of the chemical elements there is a big difference between 5and 10% in hypo strength and how you would use it 

0.5 % isn’t going to do anything when you then dilute it further according to there instructions , one of my customers is a chemist and I have had very long discussions with him about this very subject and he understands the chemical make up of all these substances I don’t ime going on what he says and he workes of a very large chemical manufacturer and is responsible for coming up with the approved mixtures of chemicals . He said that Benz products black wash is only weak farm hypo his words not mine , I regularly soft wash this guy hous3 and patios drive way with farm hypo that he supplies , as he said it’s the best stuff for the job 

 
I wouldn't say the same results at less concentration as I would only use a certain percent mix for a specific job whichever make I used

Blackwash at 10:1 for a 1% mix I think it is has the same active hypo as swimming pool hypo and surfactant mixed to 1%

Appropriate ppe needs to be observed for each job to minimise risks also 
This is why the hydroxide is added. It does increase the effectiveness at lower concentrations. So Benz might do at 1% total Sodium Hypochlorite what regular hypo would do at 2%. Also the surfactants "keep it wet" longer allowing for alonger dwell time further reducing the need for a stronger mix.

 
Accidents happen to everyone. Splash in the eye, soaked through gloves, leaking fitting on the pump that pops off while under pressure at exactly the wrong moment.

If COSHH is applied when using hypo strictly speaking benz is better because it can achieve the same results at lower concentrations with less hazard and risk to the applicator (person) and the environment.






As i as I said if using the correct ppe splashes in the eyes will not happen if using the correct ppe 

soacked through gloves ?.. how the gloves we use that’s impossible as we use gauntlets that are resistant to it and water proof cannot happen 

fittings under pressure ?.. why are you near them whilst using the stuff sounds like very poor use of of equipment or the wrong equipment being used again in goggles and or face shield are used cannot happen 

 
Hydroxide and chlorine are the 2 ingredients used to make hypo

I just don't see what extra hydroxide will do

Been googling it and can't find any reason to add it so far

I use my own surfactants which are readily available for cheap also

 
As i as I said if using the correct ppe splashes in the eyes will not happen if using the correct ppe 

soacked through gloves ?.. how the gloves we use that’s impossible as we use gauntlets that are resistant to it and water proof cannot happen 

fittings under pressure ?.. why are you near them whilst using the stuff sounds like very poor use of of equipment or the wrong equipment being used again in goggles and or face shield are used cannot happen 
Everyone can make a mistake. Just giving examples of what could happen. Those are all examples I have seen on some of the US groups most of which would never happen to us or anybody with the right knowledge and application of that knowledge. A lot can be avoided by using the correct PPE etc but nothing is 100% perfect without a perfect operator 100% of the time.

Gloves get torn or develop small holes (not impossible to happen without the operator noticing), fittings get worn. Pressure may be built up from hoses / containers sitting in a warm van with residual chemical inside them.

I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs. Anyone (who may be very inexperienced) could stumble across this post and hopefully gleen a small amount of information or at least take away some things to think about.

 
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