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Ladders & squeegees, why i believe there is still a place for them

Incheck

Well-known member
Messages
1,739
Location
Cardiff
Before this turns into another age old battle between trad & water fed, i’d like to point out that both methods have their positive & negative aspects, i use both methods and favour not one more than the other.
For first cleans, especially domestic including UPVC frames etc, i believe that water fed is vital. In combination TFR or not, the brush bristles reach nooks, crannies that simply cant be got at by hand, & also for removing loose dirt it is simply quicker and more effective. There aren’t many cons to this method of window cleaning, if you use hot water it is even easier to remove encrusted on bee pollen, poo etc etc. (I dont have a hot system)
However, when cleaning upstairs pvc sills, TFR is very good on a first clean for removing green grime and algae. But, can you rely on it 100% when you cant see what youre cleaning? I would say no. Many a time have i got the ladder out to touch up an upstairs window sill, even after UBIK. Also, how are you going to magic sponge greys off an upstairs sill as a ladderless window cleaner? I am fortunate enough to work as part of a pair, so i always have someone to foot the ladder if necessary. I completely understand why many lone window cleaners wont use them. The ladder is also handy when it comes to removing glues, silicones, egg, paint blobs etc from upstairs windows, especially if at the bottom near the seals,. You simply can not get a good angle with a scraper off a trad pole in these situations, it needs to be removed by hand with a scraper or otherwise. When it comes to removing paint, i find it far easier to remove by using an applicator to soap the window, it gives it more slip for the glass scraper because there is no surfactant in purified water to give slip. Especially handy if working on hydrophobic glass. Im sure weve all tried removing paint using wfp on hydrophobic glass, constantly having to wet the window only for the majority of the water to bounce back off. Its annoying no?
Also, trad at ground level. very handy for shops e.g hair dressers where they want the inside & outside done, and no excess water for customers to step in as they walk in and out of the shop. Also no trailing hoses (a big safety plus) and if youve got a garden full of plant pots, rose bushes, tight enclosures etc, trad is simply easier. The downside is that the windows get dirtier quicker as the surfactant left on the glass attracts pollution in the air to stick to it. But hey ho, a sacrifice for practicality. Also, the finish on the glass is instant, whereas with purified water the finish is reliant on the window to dry (not a big deal at all) but if you miss something wfp, tiny things like encrusted pollen etc, you may not see it due to water being present on the glass as you leave. With trad there is also the plus that if you leave streaks, you see them instantly. Trad is more practical for front doors especially “under shelter” porch areas on the old victorian terraces. And if the door isnt air tight at the bottom or has old wooden frames that you wouldnt want to touch with a wfp. Also there is very little if any water left on the floor, in winter there is no excess water left to “freeze” over. Before i started any trad work i regularly took a day off when it was too cold and i knew the water would freeze. I dont want any of our customers or members of the public slipping due to my excess water freezing. There are many out there who take some real risks regarding this subject. I charge high for first cleans and do whatever it takes to “get the job done” regardless of method. I dont want anyone to think this is a mandate for “how to clean” but more to provide insight if it can be of use to anybody, before you think of abandoning your ladders and squeegees.
I am still relatively new to this and only been going for four years. Im constantly learning but want to provide the best results using the most appropriate methods for various tasks.
Sorry if it’s been long winded! Hope its a good read for somebody
 
 
 
 
 
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For us wfp is what we use for 99.9 % of our work , trad is only used for some shops or inside work but generaly we won’t take anything that needs trad now , but it is still a useful thing to have on the van ,  I find these days that the rubbers perish before they get worn ????

 
Only use ladder for the odd flat roof garage roof for a side window and a few jobs where my son goes up and over some garages only do these three job as I do a cu de sac and clean 12 out of 16 houses so nice and compacted. I won’t take anymore jobs like these on. 

 
I've got a few flats where I wfp the fronts but trad the backs as they are inside security doors and up on landings. Tried wfp on them but took longer and was a right faff, so makes sense to trad them. I don't take on ladder work anymore as I'm not a young man and I've recently even taken the ladder off my vehicle now to stop me being tempted.

 
I do a builders clean yesterday and for the 1st time used wfp with ubik
Scrubbed the raas out of it!
Old frames too
Frames came up nice gotta admit
But the sills,had to put the ladder up and bling em
Maybe was just me with my wfp[emoji23]
So agree with check in
Pros&cons in both!

But hey I don’t want to be climbing ladders in my late 50s[emoji3]
So gotta work toward establishing a solid wfp round and obviously my wfp skills



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I think theres an answer to all your points. 

Ive never used a ladder and never had an issue with anything you said.

If you cant scrape paint off an upstairs window or scrub the grey off the sill then you cant do it simple as that. customer can like it or lump. leaky doors, yeh i have a few, just wipe with cloth instead. Insides, who wants to do insides? horrible job.

 
I think theres an answer to all your points. 
 
Ive never used a ladder and never had an issue with anything you said.
 
If you cant scrape paint off an upstairs window or scrub the grey off the sill then you cant do it simple as that. customer can like it or lump. leaky doors, yeh i have a few, just wipe with cloth instead. Insides, who wants to do insides? horrible job.
Sounds a little unprofessional and like your stuck in your ways a bit there matey. Fair do’s when you was on your own you can do as you please but now you’ve got an employee you can’t be as self orientated and you’ve gotta think what’s best for your business and I’d say turning good money away cos you can’t be bothered ain’t good business.


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Sounds a little unprofessional and like your stuck in your ways a bit there matey. Fair do’s when you was on your own you can do as you please but now you’ve got an employee you can’t be as self orientated and you’ve gotta think what’s best for your business and I’d say turning good money away cos you can’t be bothered ain’t good business.


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If taking ladders off to scrap paint of upstairs it's going to take me longer, so losing money. 

You could say well charge more for it then it's the same, but why when I can simply not do that job thats going to annoy me to do and clean another wfp in a happier mood for the same money.

No interest whatsoever in doing things I don't want to do.

I'm a wfp window Cleaning business, we don't collect, don't do ladders and don't do insides. 

I don't see it as Turing money away, if you have time to faff about doing these extras then you have time to fit in more regular windows so why not just get more of what you want.

The bottom line for is this.

You know when you have them jobs you don't want to do, that inside job, scraping paint off, using ladders, climbing over stuff, dealing with an awkward custy, dog poo garden etc etc. 

They are the job that make me sign and think oh not that job today, it lowers my mood, I don't wanna do it and it becomes a chore.

I worked in dead end jobs all my life not wanting to get up on a morning and doing things I don't want to do for money.

So now I have an opportunity to build a business exactly how I want to build it, one which makes me happy as well as makes me money. I don't care if that makes me "unprofessional, half a windy or whatever else". How can you dedicate years of your life to something you don't enjoy it's just not worth it.

 
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I wasn’t having a dig and I agree with you completely. One of reasons you probably started out for yourself was so you can do as you please, when you please but when in your in a situation such as yourself taking someone on and expanding your now running a business with employees to take care of which may include sacrificing certain things for the good of the business and not thinking of yourself so much. It isn’t for everyone but I believe if you go about it the right way and with the right attitude and a lot of hard work you will get there in the end. It’s just the getting there bit that isn’t for some so they give up. Maybe a two van setup is your best option at the minute but you never know what’s around the corner. Keep at it matey and I’m sure you will get there, you seem to know what you want so your already halfway there.


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Before this turns into another age old battle between trad & water fed, i’d like to point out that both methods have their positive & negative aspects, i use both methods and favour not one more than the other.
For first cleans, especially domestic including UPVC frames etc, i believe that water fed is vital. In combination TFR or not, the brush bristles reach nooks, crannies that simply cant be got at by hand, & also for removing loose dirt it is simply quicker and more effective. There aren’t many cons to this method of window cleaning, if you use hot water it is even easier to remove encrusted on bee pollen, poo etc etc. (I dont have a hot system)
However, when cleaning upstairs pvc sills, TFR is very good on a first clean for removing green grime and algae. But, can you rely on it 100% when you cant see what youre cleaning? I would say no. Many a time have i got the ladder out to touch up an upstairs window sill, even after UBIK. Also, how are you going to magic sponge greys off an upstairs sill as a ladderless window cleaner? I am fortunate enough to work as part of a pair, so i always have someone to foot the ladder if necessary. I completely understand why many lone window cleaners wont use them. The ladder is also handy when it comes to removing glues, silicones, egg, paint blobs etc from upstairs windows, especially if at the bottom near the seals,. You simply can not get a good angle with a scraper off a trad pole in these situations, it needs to be removed by hand with a scraper or otherwise. When it comes to removing paint, i find it far easier to remove by using an applicator to soap the window, it gives it more slip for the glass scraper because there is no surfactant in purified water to give slip. Especially handy if working on hydrophobic glass. Im sure weve all tried removing paint using wfp on hydrophobic glass, constantly having to wet the window only for the majority of the water to bounce back off. Its annoying no?
Also, trad at ground level. very handy for shops e.g hair dressers where they want the inside & outside done, and no excess water for customers to step in as they walk in and out of the shop. Also no trailing hoses (a big safety plus) and if youve got a garden full of plant pots, rose bushes, tight enclosures etc, trad is simply easier. The downside is that the windows get dirtier quicker as the surfactant left on the glass attracts pollution in the air to stick to it. But hey ho, a sacrifice for practicality. Also, the finish on the glass is instant, whereas with purified water the finish is reliant on the window to dry (not a big deal at all) but if you miss something wfp, tiny things like encrusted pollen etc, you may not see it due to water being present on the glass as you leave. With trad there is also the plus that if you leave streaks, you see them instantly. Trad is more practical for front doors especially “under shelter” porch areas on the old victorian terraces. And if the door isnt air tight at the bottom or has old wooden frames that you wouldnt want to touch with a wfp. Also there is very little if any water left on the floor, in winter there is no excess water left to “freeze” over. Before i started any trad work i regularly took a day off when it was too cold and i knew the water would freeze. I dont want any of our customers or members of the public slipping due to my excess water freezing. There are many out there who take some real risks regarding this subject. I charge high for first cleans and do whatever it takes to “get the job done” regardless of method. I dont want anyone to think this is a mandate for “how to clean” but more to provide insight if it can be of use to anybody, before you think of abandoning your ladders and squeegees.
I am still relatively new to this and only been going for four years. Im constantly learning but want to provide the best results using the most appropriate methods for various tasks.
Sorry if it’s been long winded! Hope its a good read for somebody
 
 
 
 
 
Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
I am a joiner to trade and one thing amazes me on this site regarding ladders and how to use them. The first thing I bought was a £100 wheeled standoff which is permanently attached to the top of my ladder. It means that it's difficult for the ladder to slip and it hold's one away from the window. The other cleaner fell from his ladder and I tried to explain the points of friction and why he fell when he overstretched. He said my standoff is dangerous but I always feel secure. The wider the standoff, then less chance of ladder slipping, Laws of Physics states that.

https://www.the-ladder-barn.co.uk/products/ultimate-stand-off-bracket

I bought mine 2nd hand off ebay but there is many cheaper ones out there.

be safe and get yourself a standoff, you will never regret it, well, hope so.

 
Sounds a little unprofessional and like your stuck in your ways a bit there matey. Fair do’s when you was on your own you can do as you please but now you’ve got an employee you can’t be as self orientated and you’ve gotta think what’s best for your business and I’d say turning good money away cos you can’t be bothered ain’t good business.


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It’s not turning money away if your busy is it? 

I never do insides and I employ. 

Two of us take nearly 7 weeks to get the round completed so if we done insides, not only would we get behind but we’d be doing those when we could be outside without all the hassles of inside cleaning.

Nothing wrong doing insides, I’ve done them in the past, but thought it was a complete pain (pardon the pun) ?

 
Sounds a little unprofessional and like your stuck in your ways a bit there matey. Fair do’s when you was on your own you can do as you please but now you’ve got an employee you can’t be as self orientated and you’ve gotta think what’s best for your business and I’d say turning good money away cos you can’t be bothered ain’t good business.


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Don't want to seem like i am having a dig at all, But in reaction to scraping off paint etc more so, we are window cleaners as in carrying out a regular window clean I also won't clean up after other trades painters and builders. 

Brand new or old windows not a mark on them until the builder or painter turned up, Got a client new extension grey aluminum frames worth a good few grand with render on frames and glass I ain't buying chems for removal and potentially risking a insurance claim or my reputation despite having a high end insurance policy 

 
It’s not turning money away if your busy is it? 
I never do insides and I employ. 
Two of us take nearly 7 weeks to get the round completed so if we done insides, not only would we get behind but we’d be doing those when we could be outside without all the hassles of inside cleaning.
Nothing wrong doing insides, I’ve done them in the past, but thought it was a complete pain (pardon the pun) [emoji4]
I was referring to Adams situation as he clearly needs more work as he is expanding and taking on an employee. If your busy enough that’s fine as your only looking to refine your work and not hinder what youve already got.


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It’s not turning money away if your busy is it? 

I never do insides and I employ. 

Two of us take nearly 7 weeks to get the round completed so if we done insides, not only would we get behind but we’d be doing those when we could be outside without all the hassles of inside cleaning.

Nothing wrong doing insides, I’ve done them in the past, but thought it was a complete pain (pardon the pun) ?
What's the going rate for insides? I charge double

 
Don't want to seem like i am having a dig at all, But in reaction to scraping off paint etc more so, we are window cleaners as in carrying out a regular window clean I also won't clean up after other trades painters and builders. 

Brand new or old windows not a mark on them until the builder or painter turned up, Got a client new extension grey aluminum frames worth a good few grand with render on frames and glass I ain't buying chems for removal and potentially risking a insurance claim or my reputation despite having a high end insurance policy 
No offence taken. I’m quite open minded and always open to new ideas and views but I will always do that little extra for my loyal customers. In relation to your example i vowed never to do a builders clean or anything on that level ever again after spending many years working for a commercial cleaning company. Although I would make an exception to an extent for one of my longstanding customers but the price would be very high.


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