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Moor

Fair pricing for block paving clean?



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K in Kent
5 hours ago, Ben23 said:

 

Resiblock trade is by far the best of the stabilising sealants in my opinion, Ive tried various others with a view to keeping costs down but they just arent as good, one coat and the sand is solid as a rock, I use a backpack sprayer and can have a large area done in no time, again its a case of not having the lance too far away from the surface and you wont be affected by wind drift

It's best of the budget sealers and far better than the likes of Thompson which is better known amongst the public but absolutely useless.

But Trade doesn't compare to Resiblock Superior in any respect. Superior out performs any sealant I've ver come across in terms of sand stabilisation, resistance to weeds/ oil/ petrol / water and unaffected by ice.

 

But is much more expensive and recommended as a 2 coat system so twice the price then need twice as much of it, AND is a pain to apply cos needs to be rolled.

 

And bearing in mind it's used (and a commercial use variant of it)  to seal airports and sea ports the world over and recently done a new super port in middle east / Oman region. Other notable places sealed with Resiblock are Man Utd football stadium, Waterloo Station and Disneyland Paris...that's how good it is.

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Moor

Resiblock trade is the product I offered, I’m going to be booking a date for the job after Easter holidays so I will talk again about sealant. Unfortunately sealant does bump the price up which tends to put people off, I need to make up a fact sheet to include with my quotes to detail why it should be used, I was surprised none of the manufacturers have this information on their website but I haven’t managed to find one.

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Pjj
On 24/03/2018 at 00:11, K in Kent said:

Sealants don't just come up some colour but you've got to understand what products you're using.

 

I've sealed every type of surface with every type of sealant and using every method...and I'm not talking about 1 here and there it's well into the 100s and I;ve never had a problem with sealants. (have rolled KDS onto the blocks and after that made sure that didn't happen again!! .. just use shorter pile roller when using sealants that have to be rolled)

If you understand the products, what they do, what effect if any they have on surfaces and which are suitable for which type of surface there's nothing to worry about and they are a great earner.

 

Must depend on parts of the country but I've never had a customer  that I can think of who hasn't wanted their blocking paving sealed after resanding. 

And don't forget it's esssential to stabilise the sand with a sealant, or use self setting sand, otherwise it gets washed out by the rain.

 

Problems arise when people don't research what they're using and don't understand the product range and what does what.

It's only with experience u learn which are the good ones because the reality is most sealers are waste of time, depending on your expectations of what they should do.

But there's nothing to fear. And something like Resiblock Trade the clue is in the product data sheets....dries clear.

Within 15 minutes of spraying it on you wouldn't think it had been touched. Goes on purple and disappears in minutes.

Things only go shiny if u use gloss/ wet look sealants but again clue is in the name.

 

Not working on windy days is gonna limit your availabilty somewhat. Like cleanerwindows says drift isn't a problem just don't have too far away or to wide a spray pattern. It's all common sense and research...and good money

 

 

 

 

Personaly i find most customers dont don’t want to pay for sealing how do you perswade them to have it done ? 

What do you use to remove old sealer from a block drive way ? Most of the ones we clean have never been sealed but came across a natural slate patio the other day that had been sealed and it was a right pain to clean 

how do you price up sealing ? What do you feel is a fair price per square meter or do you include it in the clean price ? No one down where I am has them done , is it worth doing , you say that sealing stopes the sand being washed out and I understand what you are saying but drives arnt sealed when they are first laid so trying to get the customer to pay extra is difficult I stoped offering sealing years ago as no one would pay to have it done , if I added the price into the clean price then I didn’t get any jobs as was to dear as others were a lot cheaper just doing the cleaning , have you experienced the same things ? We are window cleaners primarily but do pressure washing for existing customers so it’s not our main work 

Edited by Pjj

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Ben23

I tend to offer 3 options, option one (high maintenance option) : clean and re-sand, they then have the responsibility to keep on top of it/seal it and they know what they are getting for thier (cheapest) price

Option 2: clean and re-sand with weed resistant sand (one by dansand at wickes) this i pitch as the medium maintenance option and a higher rate to pay for the more expensive sand. option 3 is clean sand and seal, lowest maintenance option and of course the higher rate, presenting them with choice often means theres something that is in their price bracket and they can buy accordingly. thats how I do it anyway and more often than not if you explain the products/expected results they will go for the sealing in the end

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scottish cleaning service
55 minutes ago, Ben23 said:

I tend to offer 3 options, option one (high maintenance option) : clean and re-sand, they then have the responsibility to keep on top of it/seal it and they know what they are getting for thier (cheapest) price

Option 2: clean and re-sand with weed resistant sand (one by dansand at wickes) this i pitch as the medium maintenance option and a higher rate to pay for the more expensive sand. option 3 is clean sand and seal, lowest maintenance option and of course the higher rate, presenting them with choice often means theres something that is in their price bracket and they can buy accordingly. thats how I do it anyway and more often than not if you explain the products/expected results they will go for the sealing in the end

 

It seems £3 a square metre is the optimum on here for nearly everything, gutter clearing, gfs, solar panel. I like to keep things simple and £3 a metre or square metre will be my quote unless cleaning conny roofs at £10 a panel. :1f609:

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K in Kent
21 hours ago, Pjj said:

 

 

 

 

Personaly i find most customers dont don’t want to pay for sealing how do you perswade them to have it done ? 

What do you use to remove old sealer from a block drive way ? Most of the ones we clean have never been sealed but came across a natural slate patio the other day that had been sealed and it was a right pain to clean 

how do you price up sealing ? What do you feel is a fair price per square meter or do you include it in the clean price ? No one down where I am has them done , is it worth doing , you say that sealing stopes the sand being washed out and I understand what you are saying but drives arnt sealed when they are first laid so trying to get the customer to pay extra is difficult I stoped offering sealing years ago as no one would pay to have it done , if I added the price into the clean price then I didn’t get any jobs as was to dear as others were a lot cheaper just doing the cleaning , have you experienced the same things ? We are window cleaners primarily but do pressure washing for existing customers so it’s not our main work 

I have genuinely never had to persuade any customer to do anything. They generally seem to accept that sealing KDS comes as part of the job and if they want it stay structurally sound for parking cars on they need to stabilise the sand or lose it. Even the tight ones accept it although they do start saying "oh I could seal it myself" but then the wife chips in with "yeah and mess it up" or similar.

I tend not to give them an option on sealants and automatically price for using Trade at £6/sqm. I don't want to be having to roll on something like Resiblock Superior and most people don't want to pay those prices but want it done properly which is why they call.

 

You're right they aren't usually sealed when laid but that's why next thing they know sand is replaced by dirt and they've got weeds everywhere. And when they see the finished article they're made up with it and think well worth the money....and I'll show them some recent examples so they can see what it'll look like and they look it looks the business and want theirs like that.

 

If been previously sealed u should ask if they know what with and use the same. But they probably won't unless done it themselves in which case probably with Thompsons. But generally it was so long ago or seaalant was rubbish so there's no trace of it left anyway. Trade shouldn't be used on previously sealed surfaces - officially - but I use it and never had any problems.

 

Strictly speaking u should strip off previous sealnt for a blank canvas but sealnt stripper is very very expensive and just not practical.

But if you've got something like sandstone or limestone that's been sealed with a good sealant they are difficult to clean and if sealing that DOES need to be stripped. Assuming they don't want to pay for that I'd walk away and not touch it.

Stripper comes in a few types and all pricey. Some u apply leave hour or so, reapply leave pressure wash. Others have to be covered and left overnight. They're all time consuming and results aren't always that good.

Sealer stripper is bit like decking stripper and results are patchy at best and not that effective after only one coat.

 

Problem is though if previuosly sealed and not stripped the new sealant u apply won't be absorbed properly because the old stuff acts as a barrier. Then it lies on the surface and u get bubbling - not good at all.

Thats why I'd walk cos when it goes pear shaped they'll want to sue you and blame u for it.

 

RE pricing as I say block paving £6/sqm.

For Indian Sandtone patios which I do a lot of I soft wash and if they want it sealed I use Resiblock which is just over £100/5 litres from Resiblock but cheaper else where and 4 litres covers approc 25sqm. So again pricey but people want tro look after sandstone and after cleaning they want to keep it that way. But I always give them a price for Trade as well. But nearly always go for the sandstone sealer. I price at £5 / sqm PLUS cost of sealer whichever one they want. So £5 is for clean/ hypo and applying sealer and they pay for it on top.

 

An alternative is treat with a biocide depending on exacrly what they want from it. If problems with moss/ lichens etc biocide is a good cheaper alternative,. It doesnt protect but good for biological growths/ spores and lot cheaper eg 50 sqm patio you'd only need a couple of litres of biocide (and that's extra strength) whether it be Benz or AIMS stuff is cheaper and just as good with same ingredients and strength.

It's what I use at the moment...https://aimscleaninghub.co.uk/biocide-max/

 

But at end of the day mate u can only do what people want and are willing to pay for so u got to price on that basisdriveway-cleaning-re-sanding-sealing-kent.thumb.jpg.0d7d2e1250f3ef6dac03250742126c36.jpgdriveway-cleaners-maidstone.thumb.jpg.788b964d570af0c5158e935e4c10244f.jpg

 

 

driveway-cleaning-re-sanding-sealing-maidstone.thumb.jpg.06050004908e40e0631a35c996ea841d.jpg

 

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Pjj
1 hour ago, K in Kent said:

I have genuinely never had to persuade any customer to do anything. They generally seem to accept that sealing KDS comes as part of the job and if they want it stay structurally sound for parking cars on they need to stabilise the sand or lose it. Even the tight ones accept it although they do start saying "oh I could seal it myself" but then the wife chips in with "yeah and mess it up" or similar.

I tend not to give them an option on sealants and automatically price for using Trade at £6/sqm. I don't want to be having to roll on something like Resiblock Superior and most people don't want to pay those prices but want it done properly which is why they call.

 

You're right they aren't usually sealed when laid but that's why next thing they know sand is replaced by dirt and they've got weeds everywhere. And when they see the finished article they're made up with it and think well worth the money....and I'll show them some recent examples so they can see what it'll look like and they look it looks the business and want theirs like that.

 

If been previously sealed u should ask if they know what with and use the same. But they probably won't unless done it themselves in which case probably with Thompsons. But generally it was so long ago or seaalant was rubbish so there's no trace of it left anyway. Trade shouldn't be used on previously sealed surfaces - officially - but I use it and never had any problems.

 

Strictly speaking u should strip off previous sealnt for a blank canvas but sealnt stripper is very very expensive and just not practical.

But if you've got something like sandstone or limestone that's been sealed with a good sealant they are difficult to clean and if sealing that DOES need to be stripped. Assuming they don't want to pay for that I'd walk away and not touch it.

Stripper comes in a few types and all pricey. Some u apply leave hour or so, reapply leave pressure wash. Others have to be covered and left overnight. They're all time consuming and results aren't always that good.

Sealer stripper is bit like decking stripper and results are patchy at best and not that effective after only one coat.

 

Problem is though if previuosly sealed and not stripped the new sealant u apply won't be absorbed properly because the old stuff acts as a barrier. Then it lies on the surface and u get bubbling - not good at all.

Thats why I'd walk cos when it goes pear shaped they'll want to sue you and blame u for it.

 

RE pricing as I say block paving £6/sqm.

For Indian Sandtone patios which I do a lot of I soft wash and if they want it sealed I use Resiblock which is just over £100/5 litres from Resiblock but cheaper else where and 4 litres covers approc 25sqm. So again pricey but people want tro look after sandstone and after cleaning they want to keep it that way. But I always give them a price for Trade as well. But nearly always go for the sandstone sealer. I price at £5 / sqm PLUS cost of sealer whichever one they want. So £5 is for clean/ hypo and applying sealer and they pay for it on top.

 

An alternative is treat with a biocide depending on exacrly what they want from it. If problems with moss/ lichens etc biocide is a good cheaper alternative,. It doesnt protect but good for biological growths/ spores and lot cheaper eg 50 sqm patio you'd only need a couple of litres of biocide (and that's extra strength) whether it be Benz or AIMS stuff is cheaper and just as good with same ingredients and strength.

It's what I use at the moment...https://aimscleaninghub.co.uk/biocide-max/

 

But at end of the day mate u can only do what people want and are willing to pay for so u got to price on that basisdriveway-cleaning-re-sanding-sealing-kent.thumb.jpg.0d7d2e1250f3ef6dac03250742126c36.jpgdriveway-cleaners-maidstone.thumb.jpg.788b964d570af0c5158e935e4c10244f.jpg

 

 

driveway-cleaning-re-sanding-sealing-maidstone.thumb.jpg.06050004908e40e0631a35c996ea841d.jpg

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your comprehensive explanation and advice , no one down hear will pay for sealing I was talking a few weeks ago to a guy who does nothing but pressure washing and he said the same thing it’s just wash : sand and go 

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K in Kent

down here? where's that then

 

It's obviously being explained badly and people dont realise its importance

 

for a 50 sqm drive an extra £100 = half on sealer and £50 to u for half hour's work - and u got to do same time as the sand

 

are u telling me people dont want to pay that? Rubbish. I do p/w all the time too and I know what people are happy to pay for.

 

And if sand only is that aftere telling customer that it will wash away in  a few weeks and be replaced by dirt cos thats the reality.

 

Learning about sealants and how to use them is just too much trouble for some.

 

Sand stabilisation

inhibit weed growth

protect against oil stains

food/ drink spillages

prevent uv fading

stops water penetration AND help keep blocks structurally sound and without it blocks will wotk loise/ break which has a knock on effect and lcan lead to dips and complete failure....and people wont pay an extra ton or 2? Of course they will if they understand what it does

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scottish cleaning service
8 hours ago, K in Kent said:

down here? where's that then

 

It's obviously being explained badly and people dont realise its importance

 

for a 50 sqm drive an extra £100 = half on sealer and £50 to u for half hour's work - and u got to do same time as the sand

 

are u telling me people dont want to pay that? Rubbish. I do p/w all the time too and I know what people are happy to pay for.

 

And if sand only is that aftere telling customer that it will wash away in  a few weeks and be replaced by dirt cos thats the reality.

 

Learning about sealants and how to use them is just too much trouble for some.

 

Sand stabilisation

inhibit weed growth

protect against oil stains

food/ drink spillages

prevent uv fading

stops water penetration AND help keep blocks structurally sound and without it blocks will wotk loise/ break which has a knock on effect and lcan lead to dips and complete failure....and people wont pay an extra ton or 2? Of course they will if they understand what it does

 

I reckon its £3 sq metre to clean and £3 sq metre to treat with sand and bio or sealer.

So £6 sq metre for the works. Any thoughts? What sandstone sealer do you use K? thx m

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Moor

What do you guys charge for patio slabs? Straight forward cleaning, no sealing. I’m thinking £2-£2.50 sq/m?

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Pjj
19 hours ago, K in Kent said:

down here? where's that then

 

It's obviously being explained badly and people dont realise its importance

 

for a 50 sqm drive an extra £100 = half on sealer and £50 to u for half hour's work - and u got to do same time as the sand

 

are u telling me people dont want to pay that? Rubbish. I do p/w all the time too and I know what people are happy to pay for.

 

And if sand only is that aftere telling customer that it will wash away in  a few weeks and be replaced by dirt cos thats the reality.

 

Learning about sealants and how to use them is just too much trouble for some.

 

Sand stabilisation

inhibit weed growth

protect against oil stains

food/ drink spillages

prevent uv fading

stops water penetration AND help keep blocks structurally sound and without it blocks will wotk loise/ break which has a knock on effect and lcan lead to dips and complete failure....and people wont pay an extra ton or 2? Of course they will if they understand what it does

 

 

 

Down hear is cornwall funny really as we have some very monied people but they won’t pay to have it sealed I have explained it to them as do most cleaners I charge £3 sm wash and re sand if needed but it’s difficult to get them to pay that I have been doing this 10+ years and never had anyone accept sealing all the people I know say exactly the same thing , I would be quite happy to seal it never done  one but I would like to do it problem is it would double the price 

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