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Employee nightmare

ashley john

Member
Messages
99
Location
South Wales
Hi all hope you are all good. So I am my third month in business and work is really picking up quicker than what I can handle, for instance one street alone went from 2 customers every four weeks to 22 straight away and managed to get around 50 new customers last week. I have had a boy working with me to help me out as one or two houses are massive and leaded windows he needs to foot the ladder for me otherwise I can't do it alone. Here's the dilemma I found myself totally stressed about today and still am. I done less work with the two of us than I would usually manage on my own due to his sloppiness and having to constantly redo his windows. Speed wasn't up to scratch either as I was up the ladder doing upstairs I done all my windows by the time he finished a front. When he was up the ladder on his turn then as I thought screw it I'm paying him to do the ladder work and I am doing it all day myself instead but when he was up the ladder I was hanging about because by the time I finished downstairs around the whole house he was still on his first windows and the quality was terrible such as smears everywhere and frames and sills still green. I kept on all day and felt like I was talking to myself. I earned a lot less money with him than I would on my own and lost a few customers now because I couldn't get around to them. I'm totally stressed as now due to this my bills are due and was relying on that money today. Would anyone here give him another chance because this was the first time he done windows or think screw it. I need someone with me here and there but I want someone who takes pride in what they do and are quick. I haven't had a complaint in years and when I do its rare but I want high quality work as I would expect on my own home even though I am fussy anyway but getting someone to meet my standards is hard as you all probably know for yourselves.

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Hi mate.

I set on a part timer a month ago.

He was out with me and first week he slowed me down obviously having to show him what to do. 

Second week a bit faster he just about covered his wages. Still having to correct him.

Third week better still but I quickly realised that working as a 2 man is t very efficient. I would be waiting for him to finish, we would get in each others way etc.

So fourth week and I thought sod it and bought another van and sent him out on his own.

Well what a difference it's made, he's not as fast as me but he is out there and he is making me a profit now.

I am water fed pole btw so I would have thought it's easier to learn than traditional, no footing of ladders needed etc.

Get him out on his own.

The other thing I would say is if you are going to employ someone who has no experience you have to realise that you need to be patient and give them time. You can't judge them in a week. A month would give you a beer indication and I wouldn't expect them to be up to my speed for a good few months. Just realize that they won't do as much as you even when up to speed 

 
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Hi mate.
 
I set on a part timer a month ago.
 
He was out with me and first week he slowed me down obviously having to show him what to do. 
 
Second week a bit faster he just about covered his wages. Still having to correct him.
 
Third week better still but I quickly realised that working as a 2 man is t very efficient. I would be waiting for him to finish, we would get in each others way etc.
 
So fourth week and I thought sod it and bought another van and sent him out on his own.
 
Well what a difference it's made, he's not as fast as me but he is out there and he is making me a profit now.
 
I am water fed pole btw so I would have thought it's easier to learn than traditional, no footing of ladders needed etc.
 
Get him out on his own.
That's the thing I was supposed to of earned £360 today instead I earned £160 I know full well I can do £200 a day on my own and lost a gutter clean because we didn't make it. It's giving me a bad reputation now due to this one bad day I'm fuming. It's OK for him he still earned the same but I feel I can't trust anyone else's work apart from my own and constantly check and go over stuff I don't want to loose a single customer as my Mrs is 12 weeks pregnant and this business is for us to have a financially comfortable future. It's hard work wish I could cline myself haha

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That's the thing I was supposed to of earned £360 today instead I earned £160 I know full well I can do £200 a day on my own and lost a gutter clean because we didn't make it. It's giving me a bad reputation now due to this one bad day I'm fuming. It's OK for him he still earned the same but I feel I can't trust anyone else's work apart from my own and constantly check and go over stuff I don't want to loose a single customer as my Mrs is 12 weeks pregnant and this business is for us to have a financially comfortable future. It's hard work wish I could cline myself haha

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As an example on our best day together we did £270

Last weds we were out in 2 vans . Set off from my house at 9am and we were back before 3pm all done..I did £210 he did £170 . Like I said not as fast as me but way better than working together.

I'm paranoid of him doing a poor job as well mate but if you are looking to employ then you have to learn to let go and take a risk. 

I think you are expecting too much too soon. It might take a few employees before you find the right one.

If it's stressing you out that much get rid go back to being solo and try again when you feel in a better place.

In future before setting someone on permanently it might be a good idea to Dona few trial day with a prospective employee so you can give their character.

The most important thing is that they are keen to work and show willing to listen and learn. The skills can be learnt in time but work ethic can't.

 
 
As an example on our best day together we did £270
 
Last weds we were out in 2 vans . Set off from my house at 9am and we were back before 3pm all done..I did £210 he did £170 . Like I said not as fast as me but way better than working together.
 
I'm paranoid of him doing a poor job as well mate but if you are looking to employ then you have to learn to let go and take a risk. 
 
I think you are expecting too much too soon. It might take a few employees before you find the right one.
 
If it's stressing you out that much get rid go back to being solo and try again when you feel in a better place.
 
In future before setting someone on permanently it might be a good idea to Dona few trial day with a prospective employee so you can give their character.
 
 
The most important thing is that they are keen to work and show willing to listen and learn. The skills can be learnt in time but work ethic can't.
 
 
 
Cheers mate I appreciate your help. Like he's keen to come to work and always on time etc. Speed ain't my biggest issue it's the quality of the work surely you would think to yourself after doing the job poor it's shite and fix it instead of leaving the complaints come rolling in and loose work. Seems like people don't seem to care about your business except for yourself even though your keeping them in work. Feel like I'm being mugged off and I got to admit I have been brilliant with him pay him more than what he expected and buying him food and that. Maybe I am too soft.

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When I think back to when I first started off, some of my jobs were dreadful. I was working all day and on this forum for hours each night learning what to do. I was thirsty for knowledge. Your boy probably hasn’t got that thurst because it’s not his buisness ( fair enough I think) but he will get there given time I’m sure. Good that he is prompt for work and seams reliable. Don’t fret too much hopefully it will click .

 
Hey,

Sorry to hear you’re stressed. There’s no right or wrong answer here really, your business your choice. If you can earn £200 a day doing 4/4half days a week (for now) isn’t a bad income if you do decide to let him go. I would personally (but never taken anyone on and probably won’t) is to speak to him, tell him honestly, it might be the help he needs. Communication with others in any kind of relationship in any area of life is critical.

On the flip side, window cleaning is in my view quite simple. They only things you need are:

•Attention to detail 

•Willing to work fairly hard & be fairly motivated 

Speed will come with 3,6,9 months practice etc.

But if someone hasn’t got the two basics 

above then maybe this business isn’t for them. You can’t teach someone ‘attention to detail’ in my opinion, they either have it or they don’t, people brains work differently & different make up etc. I’m Not being harsh, I bet at other things he’s probably faster & better than you. 

I was really slow (and way to over thorough) when I was working for someone doing wfp 4 yrs ago. My old boss (and now a good mate) spoke to me several times about speeding up & giving other advice. And it helped. I branched off in the end but stayed very good mates. I’m not the quickest now, maybe average for someone doing it 4yrs, but I’ve always been thorough & done it properly. I do have attention to detail (thankfully)

Give it it some thought. At least you have enough work, not stressing of not building up enough work etc

 
You expected way to much of him to do earn a full days wage when it was his first day i would say you set your target way to high. As for losing the gutter job once you knew you weren't going to make it a simple phone call to re-arrange for today if it was desperate should have sufficed and pre-booked window jobs that you didn't make if you contacted them and they said don't bother coming at all if not today then they ain't worth having as clients anyway. 

The 2 jobs that need footing either get a safety device like a https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/173205248792  or similar or consider getting a cheap wfp set up backpack and pole to get those awkward windows. In 18 years i have never lost a client because i didn't turn up because 99% never know what day i will be calling the other 1% that do get a text to unlock side gates the night before. 

If you are o.c.d like me then a worker may never be for you, Set yourself achievable targets then you shouldn't have a issue after 3 months into a new business and your flat out is bloody brilliant, massive achievement. I typically only work a 4 day week this gives me 2 days leeway for bad weather etc, Compact your rounds as much as possible is also key slowly refine your rounds overtime as you move forward to make sure you are maximising your earnings each day.

 
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If he’s reliable stick with him that’s hard the battle speed will come in time if you can do 200 trad on your jacks working as a 2 man you’ll only ever get to 325 ish unless your work is extremely compact or walking round.

You’ll be best aim is to have him with you 2 days and then out on his own 2 days with a 200 target


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Like I said I sent mine out on his own

He either sinks or swims. If I start getting complaints then he either stops getting them or will have to go

So far no complaints

What else can you do though, do your best to train them, then let them at it and give it a fair trial.

 
So fourth week and I thought sod it and bought another van and sent him out on his own.


Quite interested in this. I assume you just give him a sheet of paper with addresses.

I think telling him you do these number houses and whatever time you finish that's you for the day.

Then pay him a daily wage. Did you just get another van on finance or so? 

 
Quite interested in this. I assume you just give him a sheet of paper with addresses.

I think telling him you do these number houses and whatever time you finish that's you for the day.

Then pay him a daily wage. Did you just get another van on finance or so? 


Yes mate i use George so just a case of printing the worksheet off for him, writing any notes etc on and off he goes.

He picks the van up at 9am and gets back for 3pm, i pay him hourly, his contract is 16 hours but we have been doing 18 over 3 days.

I give him an amount that i expect him to be able to complete (i give him slightly more than the minimum i want each day). If hes done early he can go and still get paid till 3, if he doesnt manage them all no big deal i will pick up any scraps end of the week.

Its best to give him an amount thats at the high end of whats possible that way he tries to get it all done (better to give him a high target and him fall short than a low one which he drags out all day) 

I bought a cheap van and second hand tank etc. If hes still here come the summer i will get a newer van on finance as i fancy a bigger one for myself and give him mine.

 
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I like the idea adam. Most likely get more done with you both working alone. Have you noticed an increase in money since taking on the employee. Cost of van and fuel etc

 
I like the idea adam. Most likely get more done with you both working alone. Have you noticed an increase in money since taking on the employee. Cost of van and fuel etc


You mean an increase in costs?

I worked out he costs me about 200 a week all in..that's his wages, holiday pay, fuel, tax, liability, insurance on the van, water. 

Yes I have noticed it, I had to train him and buy new gear etc.so I've taken a hit I just have to hope it pays off now and he starts earning me money.

Just decided to give it a go mate, if it all goes tits up I'll go back solo for a bit.

 
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Would you eventually be better off getting him set up as a sole trader and sub him out? It would mean less responsibility on your end and if anything goes wrong, he screws up or damages something he will have his own insurance to cover. You wouldn't have to worry about holiday pay too.

Was thinking of taking someone on and thats the advice my accountant gave me last week. The only risk really is that you are essentially setting him out and risking him eventually going out on his own and being your competitor.

 
Would you eventually be better off getting him set up as a sole trader and sub him out? It would mean less responsibility on your end and if anything goes wrong, he screws up or damages something he will have his own insurance to cover. You wouldn't have to worry about holiday pay too.

Was thinking of taking someone on and thats the advice my accountant gave me last week. The only risk really is that you are essentially setting him out and risking him eventually going out on his own and being your competitor.


Youll end up in bother if you do that unless he has other work of his own. This has been covered a few times on here. 

 
Youll end up in bother if you do that unless he has other work of his own. This has been covered a few times on here. 
Clisty said it to me there on another thread. I would imagine if I didn't sub out an existing windy it would obviously mean that the person has to be set up as a sole trader which is handy enough but would want to set up no part time basis first.

Someone who is working already but who wants extra money on the weekends or something would be fine , also means they would get tax credits working in both tax brackets (self employed & employed) but ideally I would want someone who is in the business already and knows the job who are just looking for extra work. Means no training, less worry but also trusting that person not to eventually try and go after your work when they get familiar with your day to day.

Either way it is opening yourself and your business up, something that I have been reluctant to do thus far.

 
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Clisty said it to me there on another thread. Accountant never mentioned anything about having there own work but I would imagine if I didn't sub out an existing windy it would obviously mean that the person has to be set up as a sole trader which is handy enough. Ideally though I would want someone who is in the business already and knows the job who are just looking for extra work. Means no training, less worry but also trusting that person not to eventually try and go after your work when they get familiar with your day to day.
If he supplies his own van, tools, work wear and has other work then you're okay. If he doesn't then he could be classed as an employee. I am actually amazed your Accountant hasn't said this. Personally I would be seriously looking for another Accountant 

 
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